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Looking at playing some games to teach a friend warhammer and based on the list he's playing I would like the game to not be horribly one sided.

He's taking
Necromancer
Cairn Wraith
28 skeletons (full command)
5 Hexwraiths
5 Dire wolves

So with a load of ethereal to deal with this is the list I'm looking at running.

Sorcerer
Shrieking blade
Charmed Shield
School of Fire spells.

Core
11 Chaos Warriors
Musician
Standard

5 Marauder Horsemen
Shields
Flails

5 Chaos hounds

Basic plan is to blast the hexwraiths off the board as early as possible (or at least make them in effective. Then go for a toe to toe with the skelies and challenge with the magic weapon vs the Cairn wraith.)

Any suggestions, I'm not to fussed about running the best list possible but being able to do something would be nice.

Those hexwraiths and that cairn wraith can really bring the pain if you don't watch it.

If he prevents you from doing any serious damage to them in time that'll be all she wrote and considering your wizard is probably a level 2 it doesn't give much in the way for different types of spells. Chances are you'll have one spell that can really hurt him.

Also considering vampire counts are almost the only faction with ethereal models at all and the only one with ethereal units (to my knowledge) you are looking for pain. Not to mention your wizard is the only source of magical attacks to hurt those hexwraiths with.

The only other hope you have is combat resolution and considering what the hex wraiths can do you probably won't win it with such a small unit of warriors. If worse comes to worse i guess you could bait the hexwraiths with your marauder horsemen and the hounds.

However this is just a friendly starter game for your friend. It's a simple list in a super small game that doesn't allow for much choice in what you can take so things can go wrong easily. Also you probably want to take crap so you don't stomp him into the ground and try to rely more on skill for a win if you even want that.

It's just there as a learning game and not much more.

If he prevents you from doing any serious damage to them in time that'll be all she wrote and considering your wizard is probably a level 2 it doesn't give much in the way for different types of spells. Chances are you'll have one spell that can really hurt him.

LV 2 chaos wizard is over 125 points so more than 25% unless I'm missing something about how the % are worked out I have to have a level one. Not got the core book to hand.
As it is I'm taking lore of fire so unless they are immune to flaming attacks I should at least have fireball.

The only other hope you have is combat resolution and considering what the hex wraiths can do you probably won't win it with such a small unit of warriors. If worse comes to worse i guess you could bait the hexwraiths with your marauder horsemen and the hounds.

Good plan and an interesting way to show off tactics. Though with the Hexwraiths as fast cav and the pass though attack not easy to pull off I expect.

However this is just a friendly starter game for your friend. It's a simple list in a super small game that doesn't allow for much choice in what you can take so things can go wrong easily. Also you probably want to take crap so you don't stomp him into the ground and try to rely more on skill for a win if you even want that.

Exactly if I wanted to flatten him I'd play dwarves with 2 magic bolt throwers a character with some kit and then some ranged core units. However with Chaos I risk not being able to scratch his army so hopefuly I can put enough resistance to make the learning worth it and with some lucky rolls pull of a win on occasion and force him to make targeting decisions.

Actually according to the book the hexwraiths can only do that move through other units in the remaining moves sub-phase like from a march or normal move. A charge means they can't do that. With marauder horsemen or the hounds you can move around the hexwraiths and out of LOS to attack at choice enemies in the back. You can also probably flee pretty quickly with both considering the marauder horsemen are probably fast cavalry and war beasts like hounds have swiftstride. Depends how far away you are from your opponent i guess. Just show him how important movement can be by owning him with it.

Worse comes to worse you can maneuvre around and get to his main vampire counts general. At that point you just kill the general (should be easy since he's just a necromancer) and that'll be all she wrote (just focus attacks on the leader if possible). The whole army will crumble by itself at that point. Their necromancer is just a wizard stat-line so it should go down pretty quick even to champions such as marauder horsemen i'd figure and for once you'd get those extra points for a champion beating a character in combat which is in itself pretty awesome.

If his hexwraiths get thinned out a little by magic they should be hard to replace. At that point just smash him with rank and file with a good charge. At best if he gets a wound or two on you that's unsaved you still have a charge, a standard and ranks and maybe a musician as well should it tie. Also considering how these are outflanking units and how things are their leadership is probably terrible with instability and they'll be too far away from a general to take advantage of his leadership for these tests.

Thanks a fair amount to think about. I'll have to see if he's free Thursday evening for a quick game.

My suggestions would be:

Banner of eternal flame on the warriors.
Drop the horse and take a spawn with breath weapon.
Use the extra points to add a few more warriors.

Add vanguard to dogs if you have 10 points free.
All that fire makes lore more flexible. Take Soaanesh or the one with the most damaging signature.

Well played a game and got owned. mostly due to bad luck as had 3 attempts at fireball
turn 1 rolled 12 for magic dice giving us both 6 dice to cast and dispel and was dispelled.
turn 2 it cast at 2d6 but only killed 1
turn 3 failed to cast

then warriors got charged and sorcerer fluffed it. lost one warrior and drew combat.

meanwhile I'd balled up the positioning of my dogs and they got charged by the skellies which wiped them out overran into the marauder horse and chopped them up in my turn.

with a bit of luck the hex wraiths then assassinated my sorcerer winning the game due to the mission.

with the warriors pinned in place by the Hex wraiths they would have been charged by everything else in the following turn anyway.

low points is super hard for WoC IMHO due to the high cost of just about everything.

i would take Chaos knights with ensorcelled weapons next time if i was you. all have magical attacks so those hexes and cairn wraith will soon be squashed.

Mark of Nurgle would be brutal as well on them as he will hit you one 5's then 5's to wound and you have a 1+ armour save.

That is how i would deal with them, then take your sorcerer and take the familiar that allows an extra spell (if he can be squeezed in). either way i think i would take lore of death as you can then snipe his necromancer out and then his army starts crumbling.

 Firefash wrote:

turn 1 rolled 12 for magic dice giving us both 6 dice to cast and dispel and was dispelled.

Not sure what you mean here... he would have 6, but you would have 12, surely?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Doh! Ofc, you only have 1 spell. My mistake. Consider taking a warshrine to use extra dice and maybe get a DP...

The only luck i've had with WoC at low pts is 2 small units of warriors for core, Scyla, and maybe a chariot if pts allow. All Khorne. I wrecked face against VC players in my meta with this build.

 Firefash wrote:
Looking at playing some games to teach a friend warhammer and based on the list he's playing I would like the game to not be horribly one sided.

He's taking
Necromancer
Cairn Wraith
28 skeletons (full command)
5 Hexwraiths
5 Dire wolves

So with a load of ethereal to deal with this is the list I'm looking at running.

Sorcerer
Shrieking blade
Charmed Shield
School of Fire spells.

Core
11 Chaos Warriors
Musician
Standard

5 Marauder Horsemen
Shields
Flails

5 Chaos hounds

Basic plan is to blast the hexwraiths off the board as early as possible (or at least make them in effective. Then go for a toe to toe with the skelies and challenge with the magic weapon vs the Cairn wraith.)

Any suggestions, I'm not to fussed about running the best list possible but being able to do something would be nice.

I would run it this way..
Take 1 spawn.
A sorcerer with a tormentor sword and enchanted shield. Lore of Death. Put him in with the warriors
Then put all the points into a block of 15 warriors with shields, musician and standard, a war banner and the mark of tzeentch
Keep the spawn nearby to hit either the hexwariths in the flank for the +1, chase down the necromancer if he's on his own or hold up the skeletons until your warriors are done with the wraiths.
5 wraiths will only get 5 attacks and the odds are in your favor that they will wound maybe 2.
Even if 2 warriors die you still tie combat res and win with the musician
If your sorcerer does any wounds the odds stack in your favor and he strikes first so the odds could go even further.
warriors are more than match for the skeletons.

Just what I would try..
Edit...even then...hitting the skeletons first and letting the wraiths go wherever will benefit you because warriors will butcher skeletons and combat res will apply to everyone so the more skeletons you kill the more wraiths die just to combat res.
Sorceror can challenge the cairn wraith if he shows up.

Oops have to edit just remembered you need 3 units minimum
Lose a few more warriors and take another spawn