1850 Tyranids Competitive C&C Please

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**Mike94656**

1850 Tournament coming up soon, what does Dakka think of my list I've compiled? What are my strengths/weaknesses. Good matchups and bad matchups. Any input is appreciated. I have a lot more models, so if changed are suggested, I can be flexible.

Hive Tyrant
-Wings
-Old Adversary
-2X TL Devourers
Hive Tyrant
-Wings
-2X TL Devourers

Hive Guard
-3
Doom of Malantai
-Mycetic Spore

Gargoyles
-13
-Adrenal Glands
-Toxin Sacs

Termagants
-11
Termagants
-10
Termagants
-10

Tervigon
-Toxin Sacs
-Adrenal Glands
-Catalyst
-Onslaught

Tervigon
-Toxin Sacs
-Adrenal Glands
-Catalyst
-Onslaught

Tervigon
-Toxin Sacs
-Adrenal Glands
-Catalyst
-Onslaught

Biovores
-3

Total 1849

**barnowl**

That is a pretty bog standard 'nid tourney list. It's biggest problem is going to be slow play with the large number of spawns

**The Shrike**

I don't think Onslaught is worth it; Catalyst is so much better and you're mastery level 1. Unless you plan on trading for Biomancy, use the points to beef up that Gargoyle unit. It's too small to be effective.

**Mike94656**

Yeah, the intention is to trade book powers for biomancy rolls. The gargoyles are smaller. Anything I can bring instead, or anything I can drop to buff them up?

**roxor08**

I agree with Shrike. A 13 man unit of gargoyles is asking to give away first blood, not to mention they won't do much for you in combat.

If you dropped the 3rd power from each Tervigon you gain only 6 more gargoyles. I would consider dropping the upgrades completely. You can then bump the unit to 24. That sized unit will definately affect your opponent more than 13 upgraded, both psychologically and with the deployment.

Lastly, I've used OA in a previous tournament, and it worked great. However, I used it to buff 2 units of 15 Devilgants that arrived downfield from pods. You, however, don't have any units that can benefit from it fully. Your dual BL-devs already reroll misses and you're only missing wounds on 1s so AT MOST you're gaining 1, maybe 2 shots that wound. OA works great when most of units can benefit it, but I'd tell you to use the points elsewhere.

**Hivefleet Oblivion**

Keep the third power and TS on the Tervigons but lose AG. Lose both AG and TS on the gargoyles - they'll get shot down before they attack anything, but that's fine, they should distract from the other stuff.

that should liberate around 46 points - use those to bump up your brood sized on the gargoyles, say 18, and add 8 or 10 termagants to each brood.

I agree about losing Old Adversary as well, you won't get the benefit. that could get you another 4 gargoyles.

My only criticism... the list is a bit boring, obviously tervigons are super-efficient for the points, but I'd like to see a few Ymgarls, podded devilgants, or podder dakkafexes in there. but obviously that depends on your play style.

**Marthike**

I got a similar list which I am gonna test it out against the necron wraiths and eldar serpent spam.

**Mike94656**

Yeah, the list is rather boring and typical in and of itself. Id run Swarmlord if I had more anti air options to be honest.

**Thatguyoverthere11**

I have a problem hitting with my biovores... even if I roll a direct hit the rest of the templates are often wasted.

Everyone is going to kill me for saying this... but there is a way for you to drop 3 heavy flamer templates anywhere on the field... it probably does what you're trying to do but better...

**roxor08**

The big question is though....for how many points? Even if you only hit efficiently with 1 of the 3 large blasts, you still have a chance of pinning the unit.

What does the Pyrovore do that the Biovores can't? Remember, you can still maintain LOS with the biovores and then you can subtract the BS from the scatter...

**Thatguyoverthere11**

Right but multiple barrage rules makes it hard to hit anything. Flame templates hit wherever you want EVERY time.

Plus, Pyrovores get 9 str 4 ignore armor save attacks on the charge when they feed. They also add to the press of bodies.

**roxor08**

IDK man. The barrage rules are to your advantage...especially since you can snipe special models and deny cover saves....can you snipe special models with a flamer?

I'm just saying, there's a reason why EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE hates Pyrovores.

There was a guy who did a battle report series that revolved around using Pyrovores in a Spod. Even he stopped it after a few....lol

**brassangel**

I'd go with Catalyst and Adrenal Glands only on the Tervigons. Keep the brood sizes small for Termagants (as you'll spawn plenty), and beef up the Gargoyle numbers.

On a side note: I wish they would have changed the name to something else years ago. "Gargoyles" is just so un-Tyranid; Terrorgaunts or something would have been better.

Anyway...

I'm not a big fan of Biovores or Pyrovores right now. One thing I have been sampling is a Tyrannofex with Acid Spray and the other flamer weapon. I basically charge him straight forward as a bit of a line-breaker, soaking up fire, and then blasting holes in infantry with cant-miss weapons. Sure, he's ultra-expensive, but it's just one more MC (the toughest to kill that we have, no less) for the enemy to prioritize against. He's not too shabby in combat either.

Tyranids are just so boring in 6th right now, being relatively mono-build, that I've been willing to try out almost anything. Except bog-standard Lictors. I mean...come on.

**jifel**

Thatguyoverthere11 wrote:
Right but multiple barrage rules makes it hard to hit anything. Flame templates hit wherever you want EVERY time.

Plus, Pyrovores get 9 str 4 ignore armor save attacks on the charge when they feed. They also add to the press of bodies.

Oh boy, it's that time of the month again, we're talking Pyrovores. Here we go...

1. Pyrovores are really that bad.
2. Pyrovores are better than Biovores... for one turn. When they drop, they'll do a bit more damage (for 40 more points). They will then be removed from the table with ease. Plus, you're down two Kill Points in this case.
3. Also, Pyros are shorter range, and require more precision, plus are prone to bad scatter. Biovores can hit targets earlier, more often, and with more variety. You get choose the Bios target after all other shooting, so you don't have to kill a single specific vehicle to expose the contents, just any open squad. With Pyrovores, you have to pick their target before shooting.
4. Plus, prone to interceptor. And, Pyrovores remove casualties from the front, while Biovores remove from the center hole and so can snipe targets.
5. Elites are too crowded. If you want a killy DS unit that ignores cover, take the Doom or Zoeys with Psychic shriek. Zoeys are tougher, do more damage, ignore all armor and can also target vehicles if needed.
6. Heavy Support is not crowded. Trygons are decent, but no one really wants 3. You will have slots open for Biovores.

In other news, I don't like autotaking Catalyst because 15 points (really not that much) will increase their potential against pretty much EVERY army out there except for Dark Eldar. So against 15/16 armies, its better to have 3 Biomancy than Catalyst. As to the list itself, try just taking two Biovores. The 45 extra points can get you 7 more Gargs, a decent amount. And if you dropped Adrenal Glands (don't drop Onslaught, please!) You could throw in 4 more or so.

**The Shrike**

If you're only going one biomorph on Tervigons Toxin Sacs are more important. What do you want more against a wraith knight or riptide; S4 or poisoned 4+? ..... I thought so.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also; I have no idea what you are talking about on the Biomancy vs. Catalyst. So, FNP on any unit within 12" including the caster for 15 points isn't better than spending 30 for randomized powers? And FNP is MORE useful against DE exactly because of their poison....

**Hivefleet Oblivion**

brassangel wrote:
I'd go with Catalyst and Adrenal Glands only on the Tervigons. Keep the brood sizes small for Termagants (as you'll spawn plenty), and beef up the Gargoyle numbers.

On a side note: I wish they would have changed the name to something else years ago. "Gargoyles" is just so un-Tyranid; Terrorgaunts or something would have been better.

TS over AG.

Biomancy over catalyst. Why would you want FNP, for the possibility of Iron Arm, ENfeeble or Endurance?

Don't reduce the termagant numbers or you'll likely give up First Kill.

**The Shrike**

Because for every game I get useful powers I have a game where I get Warp Speed, Life Leech and have to take Smite because I rolled a 6 and haemorrage sucks.

Catalyst can benefit the Tervigon OR a friendly unit like a flyrants or Swarmlord, is cheaper and most importantly, is more reliable.

Internet fight over haha; let the jury decide.

**jifel**

The Shrike wrote:

Also; I have no idea what you are talking about on the Biomancy vs. Catalyst. So, FNP on any unit within 12" including the caster for 15 points isn't better than spending 30 for randomized powers? And FNP is MORE useful against DE exactly because of their poison....

No, it really isn't better. The likelihood of getting either Endurance OR Iron Arm is very high. Both powers are far superior to Catalyst in almost every case. Plus, Warp Speed and Enfeeble can be great powers in some situations.

And I said Biomancy was better than Catalyst against every army except DE. DEldar is the only time I would consider not swapping for Biomancy, as the guaranteed FnP is in this case better than Iron Arm.

**The Shrike**

I have been persuaded; notably by a quick look in the BrB that endurance can buff units, not just caster and has double the range of Catalyst. You told me so ;P

**roxor08**

Well I think that people are also forgetting about the all incredible enfeeble. It's a ridiculously awesome power because it increases your entire army's effectiveness against the affected unit.
So you're talking 3/6 chance of getting something useful, a 1/6 chance of getting something semi useful (warp speed), and only 2/6 chance that you won't get anything useful at all.

Ultimately, the Tervigon is a mastery level 1 anyways so you'll probably only use 1 power it has the entire game unless you were to get incredibly luck and roll a 1,2,3 in which case it should be your opponents number 1 priority over Flyrants even...although if I did my math right that's only a 8.333% chance of happening. (With just 1 tervigon that has 3 swappable powers)