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Hi. Been playing games for a very long time. Started with D&D and AD&D back in the early 80s. Moved on to Blood Bowl, 40k and Warhammer and I ran a campaign at a local of Warhammer Fantasy Role Play. In the 90's, I disappeared into marriage and child raising and most of my gaming stuff was lost in a basement flood and various purges before moving. In 2002, got my son and daughter hooked on Lord of the Rings Battle game which led us to 40k again and WFRP and later Warmachine.

Today, I would like to see if I can run an RPG via Internet with my daughter, my nephew (who lives far away) and maybe a friend or two.

I've been tossing around a few ideas for a game: Since my daughter and I still have a large selection of Lord of the Rings models and my nephew has become a Tolkien freak, maybe getting the new "The One Ring" system from Cubicle7. I'm also looking at D&D or Pathfinder - my nephew lives close to a big bookstore that carries both (and the history of LotR in role playing format is littered with many dead systems - I sold my ICE stuff many years ago). What do y'all think of any of these systems. I'm looking for a way to keep a fairly simple character format - maybe be able to keep the character information comfortably on a front and back piece of paper with a small amount of having to refer to it during the game.

Is there an Internet setup that would be useful for roleplaying - like a live blog - or a blog that can go live - or maybe like a GoToMeeting or some such format?

Any thoughts y'all have would be welcome. Thanks. Good to see that DakkaDakka is still around and I love the D6G podcast.

Thanks,
Bill

Hey, welcome to Dakka.

Pathfinder and D&D are almost one in the same: Pathfinder being more recent, is abit more stremlined in my opinion and a bit les number crunching when it comes to a few meneuvers.

As for setting up the game, you can use Skype, teamspeak, there's also...hmm..openRPG (?), I think, really not sure of the name, where you can have voice chat and a map program for combat.

I use mIRC myself, there's ltos of typing invovled, but it works for what I need.

Are you looking for something more along the lines of a skirmish miniatures game or a story with dice rolling?

If you want the former, Pathfinder (the heir to Third Edition D&D) will scratch that itch.

If you want the latter, I'd recommend going with one of the Basic D&D rulesets or a "retroclone"/"old school renaissance" (OSR) game. You have a couple of choices there:

(1) Visit NobleKnightGames or trawl eBay for original copies

(2) Get PDF copies of the originals via RPGNow:

- Basic
- Expert
- Rules Cyclopedia

(3) grab free OSR/retroclone game rules, for example

- OSRIC
- Swords & Wizardy White Box
- Labyrinth Lord

(4) buy some retroclone/OSR rules, for example:

- Lamentations of the Flame Princess (This one's not so much for the kids.)

There are also AD&D pdfs, the recently reprinted AD&D First Edition, and a OSR-style AD&D called Castles & Crusades.

You can also find cool, free games scattered around the net, for exmaple:

http://www.onesevendesign.com/ladyblackbird/

As far as The One Ring goes, it's a pretty neat game with a focus on story. It's not something I'd recommend for beginners, however.

Just because I like promoting this great but little known system, I'll also throw in Green Ronin's Dragon Age RPG as another option.

I find it enjoyable not just due to its setting (which is a big bonus for me, though) but also because the system is a welcome deviation from the hobby's tendency to churn out ever more complicated mechanics with the intention of pursueing complexity, yet often ending up just being more complicated, more difficult to get in to, and taking more time on the table. In contrast, the DARPG is a throwback to the early days of P&P gaming, and its softcover rulebooks are only about 60 pages "thick". Someone completely unaccustomed with the system or indeed pen&paper gaming as a whole needs only half an hour of reading until having built a character and being ready for a campaign. Perfect for a quick start in the evening, rather than requiring lots of pre-reading.

This lack of complexity, which may otherwise be a double-edged sword, is chiefly compensated by the use of a rather fun "stunt point" mechanic, which, in lieu of dozens of talents and special attacks that players must learn in other games, is triggered only when you roll doubles on a successful standard test. By rolling doubles, you are granted "stunt points", which you can then use to refine your action with various special effects (to be picked from an easy to use table) such as disarming an opponent or knocking them down, having your spell be extra-effective, or conferring social bonuses.

A side effect of this "rules lite" approach is that the system can easily be adapted and/or modified to your heart's content, as the amount of things you'd have to take into consideration when changing anything is much, much smaller than with many other contemporary/popular rulesets.

The amount of investment is also fairly low, as the number of products

*shameless advertisement*




Website: http://greenronin.com/dragon_age/
Forum: http://greenronin.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=33
Random Quick Review: http://morrisonmp.wordpress.com/2010/03/19/review-of-dragon-age-rpg-from-green-ronin-part-one/


Obviously, all of this wouldn't apply if you really intend to stick to miniatures and/or the LotR setting, but hey, I'm taking the chance.

For a first foray into RPG's I always recommend D&D Essentials. It is cheap, doesn't require system mastery to do anything, and isn't as punishing to new players. It is a fairly simple and streamlined system that gives a decent understanding of the basic mechanics and ideas behind pen and paper RPG's.

Another inexpensive option, if you want an RPG that doesn't involve minis and battlegrids for combat, is Savage Worlds.

 Ahtman wrote:
For a first foray into RPG's I always recommend D&D Essentials. It is cheap, doesn't require system mastery to do anything, and isn't as punishing to new players. It is a fairly simple and streamlined system that gives a decent understanding of the basic mechanics and ideas behind pen and paper RPG's.

Got to agree with this one. 4e D&D (or Essentials, which is pretty much "4.5 edition D&D" although technically still compatible with base 4e) is probably my favorite RPG for "general consumption" (the rest are either way to niche or the rules are way too wonky for most people/situations. I love me a complicated crunchy game). People say that 4e is on the complicated side of RPG games. I'd say they're dirty liers. Honestly, I feel like 4e is firmly in the middle complexity wise. It's a step up from Pathfinder (D&D 3.75, basically D&D's 3.5 era ruleset gone open source) since pretty much everyone has a lot of special tactical techniques they can do. But if you ask me the combat makes up for it. It is pretty well balanced from a combat perspective as far as RPGs go, and the rules let you do a lot of fun awesome stuff in combat. Also it is very hard to build a useless character, even for new players, which is a huge improvement over earlier editions of D&D. Optimization is alive and well in 4e, but unless you deliberately take trap options (and you can tell they are traps) any character will pull their own weight just fine.

Now, the limitations of 4e (and there are some), 4e even more than previous editions of D&D is really a skirmish level wargame in a story wrapper. There isn't a lot of rules governing non-combat interactions and the economy/wealth system is completely FUBAR from anything short of a "game balance" perspective. The lack of rules for noncombat encounters isn't actually that much of a problem to me, since a GM who knows what he's doing can pretty much improvise the non-combat stuff as it happens (I'm a hack and slasher at heart. I view these games as a series of interesting tactical exercises separated by story, so people who like rich and detailed rules for non combat things will disagree on this point). In general it is a much more limiting system than earlier forms of D&D with regards to crafting magic items and spells that can be done outside of combat, but I feel like this is a reasonable compensation for people with spell slots not being to wrap the entire campaign around their little finger by the time they hit 5th level.

Also you could totally do "LOTR with the serial numbers filed off" in D&D 4e. I can already see how I'd stat some of the core party members. Elf ranger, dwarf fighter, human warlord...sounds like a pretty fun 3 man party.

One more thing I might want to add, 4e is suffering heavily from "mature system sourcebook blight". That doesn't mean that you have to buy anything more than the original player's handbook, a monster book, and the DM's guide (I recommend the newer monster books, they went through some revelations on monster design with reduced defenses and more damage since fights were taking too long, although earlier book monsters might be "easy mode" for newer players). I think they released some kind of "all in one rules book" at some point but I can't remember it. More books are better, since there were a couple math errors the designers made in regards to character progression that get patched with equipment/feats in the later books, but the errors are so small that only hardcore optimizers will ever notice them.

That said, the entirety of the Pathfinder ruleset is available free online, so for getting into roleplaying with low startup cost that's about as good as you could find. Also, you know that the guys behind Warmachine had an Iron Kingdoms RPG at some point. That might be a fun one since you said they're already liking Warmachine.

For playing the game over a distance some people on Youtube I watch have used a program called MapTool in combination with a voice chat program. I haven't seen so much of the videos, so I can't comment on the software, but it seems to be reasonably good since that's what several people all use.

One more thing, 4e plays best with 4-5 people in the party. This might be a problem, although I played with a 3 man party for a while, and it worked although your options to throw varied tactical exercises (i.e. interesting combats) at the players gets rather limited.

I'm old fashioned and would say get hold of an old copy of MERP (ICE as you say) as that always made a great job of LoTR stuff and was nice and simple

though you'd have to hunt via the 2nd hand market

(assuming you ban any real Magic for the players, which is probably a good idea if you're looking for a LotR feel whatever system you go for)

I'll throw in another system you might want to check out - Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG. Its half-D&D retroclone (lots of similarities to OD&D through 3rd edition), with a nice helping of Sword and Sorcery flavor, really nifty charts (Critical Hits, Spell Effects, Corruption, Luck, etc), and a nice blend of some newer school mechanics (non-fiddly XP, etc). You can play it with minis or without, either way work - although its not geared towards a grid or miniatures play at all.

Its a lot of fun, and is my favorite - by far - of all the D&D versions/editions/knock-offs.

Thanks, all. Thanks for all the leads - I will look into them. I'm especially intrigued by Dragon Age and Dungeon Crawl Classics, but I want to look at all the possibilities.

I have a question about D&D 4 Essentials. I can't seem to get a straight answer from WotC as to what exactly I would need to buy in order to get started. I played D&D and AD&D many years ago, so I know I need a Player HB, a DM book and some sort of Monster book (although I was going to try just getting an adventure or campaign setting book and assume that the relevant monsters would be in that). It looks like there are at least three player's handbooks and several DM's books. Kind of annoying. I'm not going to bother with the anniversary box set - just knowing that I'll end up getting the bigger books within a month or so.

As for Pathfinder, it seems to be easier to adapt older and newer resources to it, but I haven't gotten too far in yet. I'm playing with their online stuff to understand the complexities of the system. I so far like the quality of the resources available to it. On the other hand, some of the best stuff is looking like it comes from Green Ronin, so Dragon Age should have a version of those, too.

Thanks all! I'll follow your leads.

cpt_safety wrote:
I have a question about D&D 4 Essentials. I can't seem to get a straight answer from WotC as to what exactly I would need to buy in order to get started. I played D&D and AD&D many years ago, so I know I need a Player HB, a DM book and some sort of Monster book (although I was going to try just getting an adventure or campaign setting book and assume that the relevant monsters would be in that).

Essentials only has four* books:

Heroes of the Fallen Lands
- Dwarf, Eladrin, Elf, Halfling, Human
- Warpriest (Cleric), Knight (Fighter), Slayer (Fighter),Thief (Rogue), Mage (Wizard)

Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms
- Dragonborn, Drow, Half-Elf, Half-Orc,Teifling, Human
- Sentinel (Druid), Cavalier (Paladin), Hunter (Ranger), Scout (Ranger), Hexblade (Warlock)

Rules Compendium
- The DM Guide/Rulebook
- There is a Dungeon Masters Kit that is this book and comes with two double sided maps, monster tokens, an adventure, and a DM Screen. I guess it must be hard to find nowadays because the new price on Amazon is stupidly high, and not worth it. If you can get a cheap one it would probably be worth it.

Monster Vault
- Two maps, Tokens, and Adventure, and the Monsters Vault book.

There is also the Red Box starter set, which isn't necessary, but is a good way to learn the system, especially for new younger players, and more maps and tokens. It has an adventure that teaches the system as you play it, as I understand it, as well as to totally broken Wizard Spells that were removed from others sources.

cpt_safety wrote:
As for Pathfinder, it seems to be easier to adapt older and newer resources to it,

Combining Pathfinder and 3.5 is the road to madness.


*There is a second Monster Vault out now, Monster Vault: Threats to Nentir Vale.

 Ahtman wrote:
Combining Pathfinder and 3.5 is the road to madness.

Bah! I ran the original Rise of the Runelords using pathfinder rules. Granted I had done most of the conversion work before the Anniversary Edition came out..

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
Combining Pathfinder and 3.5 is the road to madness.

Bah! I ran the original Rise of the Runelords using pathfinder rules. Granted I had done most of the conversion work before the Anniversary Edition came out..

Adapting Adventures/Modules isn't really a problem, I was thinking more of Feats/Classes/Races* and all the shenanigans involved with the five million splat books for 3.5.


*Not including Savage Species.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
Combining Pathfinder and 3.5 is the road to madness.

Bah! I ran the original Rise of the Runelords using pathfinder rules. Granted I had done most of the conversion work before the Anniversary Edition came out..

Adapting Adventures/Modules isn't really a problem, I was thinking more of Feats/Classes/Races* and all the shenanigans involved with the five million splat books for 3.5.


*Not including Savage Species.

I actually had more problems with an optimized rogue and barbarian in pathfinder than I ever had in 3.5. GRANTED my players weren't dicks and my pathfinder group was. Though I did make an ork frenzied berserker for a ravenloft game because we literally could not go an encounter without dying... So I made something with twice as much hp as the party

Stick with the best - 1E AD&D!!!

Especially now that WoTC has smartened up (again!) and is re-releasing all the good old stuff...and as PDFs even, too!

Pathfinder stuff available free online:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/

Thanks all. Ahtman, thanks for the clarity on the essentials. I almost put them in my Amazon cart or drove to my local to pick them up - then I talked to my cousin. I hadn't talk to him in a while - to see if he had any old stuff lying around.

He and I used to play AD&D and a bunch of other games many years ago until he went off to serve our country and I went off to populate it and get married (strike that - reverse it - thank you). Didn't know it until I spoke to him at the end of last week, but he's been DMing for a group about an hour away from me in D&D 3.5 and although they've liked it, they're moving to Pathfinder soon. So, with the possibility that my cousin and/or his kids might join us for a one-off adventure or might even join our campaign, he and I thought we'd both go to Pathfinder. We're now discussing how or whether to integrate our campaigns so that occasionally, we might try to play a character in each others' settings. Might be fun. Might be terribly confusing. Might turn into a cool team up one in a while - like The Avengers - it might turn into the People's Front of Judea and the Judean Peoples Front all killing each other in the sewers of Jerusalem in "The Life of Brian." Careful planning...

Anyway, the system has been decided. On to building a new world!

Cool. Glad things worked out for you. I'm not a terribly big fan of Pathfinder/3.5 as a system, but that doesn't mean you can't have a lot of fun with it (and besides it's your campaign, what I think about it doesn't matter one bit ).

If you need any help with world creation or other GM type stuff you can always head back here. I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I've done the whole "running a game" thing quite a bit over the past ~3 years. And I'm sure there's people who have been doing it a lot longer around here.