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I like small elite armies - reduced painting time, lower cost and a sense of being the underdog are all factors I guess.
Because of this I'm looking into a small Eldar list using Wraith units, up to 1000pts, this is what I have planned so far:

HQ
Spiritseer

Troops
2 x 5 Wraithguard
2 x Wave Serpent - Holofield, Scatter-laser & shuriken cannon

Heavy Support
2 Wraithlord - flamers, scatterlaser & starcannon/bright lance

Comes to 1000 points exactly. Any thoughts? It seems to be fairly decent IMO - within the confines of a small elite army.

Very small. But not bad. I would give the lords either 2 scatter lasers, or 2 star cannons. If you really want those bright lances (even tho witty wrath guard you should have enough high strength low ap weapons) you should take two bright lances instead of one scatter laser and one bright lance.

Yeah I was unsure about the wraithlord weapons

I considered the lances in case there are av 12+ things that need to go down asap, or could not effectively be hit at 12 or melee range (taking out a landraider with terminators inside for example, without losing the wraithguard/lord the turn after)

The star cannons would be for TEQ/MEQ/T6 MC's, though weight of fire from the scatter laser could possibly do it as well.

You could give one lord two lances. Better vs the things your scared about then scatter laser and lance. Then give the other one star canon or shuikrn cannon for infantry.

I think you would be far better served as an Iyanden army with a single Wriathknight and the stone on the Spiritseer instead of the two Wraithlords. The Wraithlords are too slow and put out ok firepower, the Wriathknight would be able keep up with your serpents and the stone will be far more efficient in keeping that Wriathknight going then the Lords would be. Plus he is a CC threat for counter assault which your army sorely lacks. Stock the Wriathknight brings better AT, CC, board control, and only lacks at overall firepower against heavy infantry etc.

Just my 2 cents.

Ok that might work better. At the end of the day I guess there is no optimum build for this, as it depends on the opposing line up
For a TAC list I'll probably settle for dual lance, dual starcannon setup. Thanks for the advice.


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The problem with the wraithknight is that in many ways its weaker than the wraith lords.

Its so big that cover saves are harder to come by, and as a single unit with 4 attacks and ws4 it can be tarpitted more easily.

I would say point for point, 2 wraithlords is actually better in cc vs most things, they certainly have more attacks, and the difference between str 8 and 10 is minimal a lot of the time.

They also get to shoot at 2 different targets with 4 weapons total each turn, instead of 2 weapons at 1 target.

You are correct the knight will be faster and that could help, but then again it is only 1 model, so will not be able to control as much of the board.

If you can find 50p give one squad D-Scythes. More effective against hordes and TEQ.

And I don't know about you, but I always like to see Ghostglaives with Lords. Makes them scarier...

Big Blind Bill wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

The problem with the wraithknight is that in many ways its weaker than the wraith lords.

Its so big that cover saves are harder to come by, and as a single unit with 4 attacks and ws4 it can be tarpitted more easily.

I would say point for point, 2 wraithlords is actually better in cc vs most things, they certainly have more attacks, and the difference between str 8 and 10 is minimal a lot of the time.

They also get to shoot at 2 different targets with 4 weapons total each turn, instead of 2 weapons at 1 target.

You are correct the knight will be faster and that could help, but then again it is only 1 model, so will not be able to control as much of the board.

With area terrain its still pretty easy to get him a cover save, and wave serpents are large enough to as well.

Tarpitting, yes the Wraithknight can be tarpitted more easily than the wraithlords, but his can largely be countered by mobility.

Wraithlords don't make it into combat until Turn 3/4, Wraithknight Turn 2. And in Iyanden he is most likely still shooting as he does it.

The increased firepower is unequivicably better for the Lords, but that comes at the cost of CC pressure and mobility. Also, S10 and instadeath has its uses against MCs.

Only one very scary model. Fear will do a lot to your opponents movement, but is the Turn 2 pressure where the Wraithknight excels.

And with the Stone the Wraithknight is more survivable than the Wraithlords sans ID weapons and attacks.

Ok for an Iyaden list with a knight I'd run:

HQ
Spiritseer - wraithforge stone.
Wraithknight - standard (no points spare for upgrades, not sure who to make warlord)

Troops
1 x 5 Wraithguard
1 x 5 wraithguard - d-scythes
2 x Wave Serpent - Holofield, Scatter-laser & shuriken cannon

The d-scythes could be dropped to give the knight a scatter laser and suncannon, both are good vs 2+ enemies, though the d-scythes may be better vs hordes.

Zagman wrote:
I think you would be far better served as an Iyanden army with a single Wriathknight and the stone on the Spiritseer instead of the two Wraithlords. The Wraithlords are too slow and put out ok firepower, the Wriathknight would be able keep up with your serpents and the stone will be far more efficient in keeping that Wriathknight going then the Lords would be. Plus he is a CC threat for counter assault which your army sorely lacks. Stock the Wriathknight brings better AT, CC, board control, and only lacks at overall firepower against heavy infantry etc.

Just my 2 cents.

Wraithknights may be better but for almost the same amount of points you ca get two lords, which are fairly slow, yes, but 2 strength 8 toughness 8 monstrous creatures with average wounds and lots of good firepower and strong melee capability? I don't know, at 1000pts I just see two lords over one knight being better.

If I was using the stone in a Iyander list, then a wraithknight would fit better I think.

But normally I would agree with you, 2 wraithlords would work better (plus they are also not ridiculously massive and are also cheaper.)
Furthermore the duel flamers they have serve as horde control, so the D-scythes on the wraithguard are not needed to stop tarpits as they are with the wraithknight.