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So I am fielding my Dreamforge Crusader as a Titan built specifically for the Grey Knights. Just need some help ironing out the rules and such.

Here is the fluff:
Terminus Titan Class Walker
History:
The Terminus Titan is the ultimate weapon in the fight against Chaos. Taller, stronger and more heavily armoured than a Warhound Titan, the Terminus was specifically created to take on the might of the Greatest Daemons and Daemon Princes and destroy them utterly. While it takes many centuries of training to control a Terminus, and even more years to master it, the few pilots that do exist are some of the most honored warriors in the Chapter. With a huge Nemesis Force Claymore and access to the heaviest weapons in the Grey Knight and Adeptus Mechanicus arsenal, the Terminus will set its sights on the most terrifying opponents and make it his mission to obliterate them entirely.

The task to build this Titan was placed on the shoulders of the Adeptus Mechanicus after the War of Armageddon. Not wanting to see another massacre of brother Grey Knights, the Masters of the Chapter reluctantly handed Grey Knight technology to highly select few Mechanicus individuals (under the careful scrutiny of the inquisition of course). Knowing that they would be mind wiped after the process was finished, they set forth to create not only the first Space Marine Titan, but also one specifically used for the Grey Knights Line of work. Only three were created to this day due to the highly technological frustrations and problems that come with designing Force Weapons and Psychic intricacy wires throughout the body – but the Grey Knights hope to field more in the up-coming Millennia. The Terminus has only seen action once on a Daemon plagued planet – in which the Terminus Single Handedly took down all 4 Champions – each belonging to a separate chaotic god – at the same time. All the while expending its ammunition, putting the death tolls of those daemons well into the thousands. To the surprise of the Grey Knights – only few were lost in the invasion of the Warp Planet, and even the Terminus’ Aegis and Hexagrammic Wards held up against the onslaught of physical and mental demonic incursion. In fact, the Grey Knight piloting the Titan had said that he rarely used his mental fortifications against the whisperings of Chaos, saying that the Titan had guarded him “physically and mentally” to allow him to focus on the banishment of the daemons.

The Titan’s normal armament consists of a large Titan-Class Psycannon build with a Co-Axial Autocannon for more accurate suppressive fire. It also contains two chest mounted Psilancers in order to way down weaker daemons with weight of fire. The most important armament it contains however is the large Force Claymore – able to become a large Focus Weapon through careful intricate connections to the Grey Knight Pilot as to not overload the pilots mind. When charged, it has been known to almost rent the fabric of reality whenever it cleaves through its foes – banishing anyone who dare even touch its edge.

At the end of the day, this fraction of genius – although rare – will always be used by the Grey Knights in the direst of needs.

Points: 1500
WS: 5
BS: 4
S: 10
Front Arm: 14
Side Arm: 14
Rear Arm: 12
I: 4
A: 3
Structure Points: 3 (9 HP)
Void Shields: 2

Speed:
Agile

Armament:
1 x Vulcan Psycannon
Range: 42"
S: 7
AP: 3
Heavy 30, Rending

1x Co-Axial Heavy Autocannon
Range: 42"
S: 8
AP: 4
Heavy 2, Co-Axial

2 x Twin-linked Psilancers
Range: 24"
S: 4
AP: --
Heavy 12, Shred

1 x Battle-Titan Force Claymore*
S: 10*
AP: 1
CC-Titan Weapon, Cleave**

Special Rules:

Co-Axial:
If this weapon hits, the Vulcan Psycannon becomes twin linked (even when under the effects of Suppressive Destruction). The Weapon must fire at the same target as the Vulcan Psycannon

Suppressive Destruction:
If the Terminus stands still, nominate ONE UNIT 6” away from the original unit being fired at. The Terminus may split fire the Vulcan Psycannon between the designated units at -1 BS (cannot supersede original fire rate). This is affected by Co-Axial weapons

Battle-Titan Force Claymore:*
Essentially this powerful weapon is one large conduit of Force Weapon energy – and with careful mastery, the pilot is able to activate the blade to essentially banish the target from existence – demon or not!
Upon any successful hit, the weapon can be activated (treat Titan for this purpose as leadership 10) to boost the strength of this weapon to “D.” If leadership test is failed weapon is used as normal. Furthermore, the Titan may re-roll failed to hit, to wound, and amour penetration rolls.

Cleave:**
The Terminus, when surrounded by lesser foes, will take its Force Claymore and sweep it along the ground in one massive blow, scattering any remnants of enemies that might have dared to attack this Titan in hand to hand.
This attack can be used in the place of its normal attacks. The Terminus gains as many attacks as there are enemies in base-to-base contact with the Titan. The Titan may NOT re-roll failed to hits, to wound, or to armor penetration rolls if using this skill - it is one massive swipe... no time for corrective swings.

So yeah... tweek this for me please.
Do I need to increase/decrease points, change some of the rules on the weapons (or just outright remove them), , change anything?

and so you know what it looks like

i think you've overpriced it personally, it has 1 powerful gun but it's attacks aren't even titan CCW strength, and it has only 3 structure points. to give you some perspective, you can make an ork stompa with a deff arsenal, gigashoota, deff kannon, wrekkin-ball and a powerfield for (i think) less than/around half the cost. that's a S10 blast, 6D6 S6 shots, 3D6 S9 shots, a big SD sweep attack, 4 SD CC attacks, and a AV12 shield that's not as skin tight as your void shields, on a vehicle that's got 4 SP (12 HP). so perhaps drop it to around 1000pts, as i think agile will be worth a bit (though i don't know what it is).

I'd have the weapon allow you to replace with a single attack that does D3 SD hits, if you want a "you-are-really-dead-now" heavy attack. or have it capable of instant-deathing gargantuans, but leave the points the same in that instance

some bloke wrote:
i think you've overpriced it personally, it has 1 powerful gun but it's attacks aren't even titan CCW strength, and it has only 3 structure points. to give you some perspective, you can make an ork stompa with a deff arsenal, gigashoota, deff kannon, wrekkin-ball and a powerfield for (i think) less than/around half the cost. that's a S10 blast, 6D6 S6 shots, 3D6 S9 shots, a big SD sweep attack, 4 SD CC attacks, and a AV12 shield that's not as skin tight as your void shields, on a vehicle that's got 4 SP (12 HP). so perhaps drop it to around 1000pts, as i think agile will be worth a bit (though i don't know what it is).

I'd have the weapon allow you to replace with a single attack that does D3 SD hits, if you want a "you-are-really-dead-now" heavy attack. or have it capable of instant-deathing gargantuans, but leave the points the same in that instance

Well it does empower the claymore to D strength... so there are 3 D attacks (or more if I use the cleave ability)

Maybe keep it at 1500, but knock it up another structure point to 5 (15 HP) and 2 void shields? I tried to make it as close to the Warhound as possible.


Or I take away the Void Shields (Cause thats more like an Imperial Titan Tech) and instead have a 5++ Invulnerable Save at all times (Due to the large shield generator on his forearm)

I'd also re-word 'cleave', as at the moment there's no reason not to (as you 'gain' the number of attacks of the number of models in base contact, so even against 1 you get +1 attack)

5+ invuln isn't as good nowadays as S: D weapons will ignore it, you'll have to word it as a 'on a 5+ the hit is ignored' instead. you could even have it boost to a 4+ in close combat.

the suppressive destruction could be improved by making it a sweep attack - draw a line across the battlefield and all units are hit D6 times by the gun, allows potentially more destruction but as it's not focussed, it's a lot less likely to destry a whole unit. make it pinning though, and it's suddenly getting to be a lot m ore worth its points.

some bloke wrote:
I'd also re-word 'cleave', as at the moment there's no reason not to (as you 'gain' the number of attacks of the number of models in base contact, so even against 1 you get +1 attack)

5+ invuln isn't as good nowadays as S: D weapons will ignore it, you'll have to word it as a 'on a 5+ the hit is ignored' instead. you could even have it boost to a 4+ in close combat.

the suppressive destruction could be improved by making it a sweep attack - draw a line across the battlefield and all units are hit D6 times by the gun, allows potentially more destruction but as it's not focussed, it's a lot less likely to destry a whole unit. make it pinning though, and it's suddenly getting to be a lot m ore worth its points.

Thank you - changed "gained" to "has" (little things like that are so hard to catch )

Changed the 5+ ignore a shot (which makes more sense)

I like the Suppressive destruction change you have (draw a line and each unit hit D6 times and is now pinning) - but how long should the line be across the battlefield? Usually it is only 18-24" of a line.

So since this I only changed the skill and the points I will only post that (in red are the changed I have):

1332 points (?) (still unsure about this point score) [bonus points if you guess why it is such an odd number )

Special Options:
Banner of the Emperor:
Flying on top of the Titan is a banner of the Emperor. It is whispered that the Emperor himself oversaw its creation and blessed it with his own sacral blood. Any Imperial Unit within 12” of the titan is Fearless.

Co-Axial:
If this weapon hits, the Vulcan Psycannon becomes twin linked (even when under the effects of Suppressive Destruction). The Weapon must fire at the same target as the Vulcan Psycannon

Suppressive Destruction:
Draw a straight line no more than 18”. Units across this line are hit D6 times by the Vulcan Psycannon. Furthermore, the weapon when using this skill gains Pinning. This is affected by Co-Axial weapons

Battle-Titan Force Claymore:*
Essentially this powerful weapon is one large conduit of Force Weapon energy – and with careful mastery, the pilot is able to activate the blade to essentially banish the target from existence – demon or not!
Upon any successful hit, the weapon can be activated (treat Titan for this purpose as leadership 10) to boost the strength of this weapon to “D.” Treat any perils of the warp as a HP of damage. Furthermore, the Titan may re-roll failed to hit, to wound, and amour penetration rolls.

Cleave:**
The Terminus, when surrounded by lesser foes, will take its Force Claymore and sweep it along the ground in one massive blow, scattering any remnants of enemies that might have dared to attack this Titan in hand to hand.
This attack can be used in the place of its normal attacks. The Terminus has as many attacks as there are enemies in base-to-base contact with the Titan. The Titan may NOT re-roll failed to hits, to wound, or to armor penetration rolls – this attack does not require the finesse of swordplay.

Imperator Shield:

Shield on Forearm allows the Terminus to ignore a shooting or a close combat hit on 5+.

Vehicle Gear:

Reinforced Aegis & Hexagrammic Wards
(2+ Deny Witch)
Power of the Machine Spirit

Psychic Pilot

5 Structure Points (15 HP)

How are Suppressive Destruction and Co-Axial supposed to interact?

Twin Linked allows you to re-roll to hit rolls, but Suppressive Destruction just generates d6 hits.

rigeld2 wrote:
How are Suppressive Destruction and Co-Axial supposed to interact?

Twin Linked allows you to re-roll to hit rolls, but Suppressive Destruction just generates d6 hits.

Hmmmm - thank you for that. That was a remnant from the last rule. Co Axial will only work if it does the 30 shots, not from suppressive Destruction.

Also I changed it to D6+3 hits (it seemed to small to do it D6 for a 30 shot gun).

Is 18" a good size for the Suppressive Destruction line?

I think it should be a 5++ save, not ignore hits, the thing isn't big enough to absorb D shots, or if you do go down that route to protect it from D shots then it is a one trick pony, it's 5++ against all weapons till a D shot hits it, then if it does save the shot the shield is burnt out for the rest of the game. No matter how unlikely it is on the table top, this Titan should have no hope in hell's chance of been able to stand up to a titan rocking multiple D weapons and walk out unscathed.

Also, your Vulcan Psycannon rules don't fit the weapon currently, look of the size of that thing, those shells are going to be pretty big, they should be small blast template at least! Reduce the amount of shot but make each hit a blast template. Or keep the amount of shots and ass the small blast template and keep the point cost higher.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I think it should be a 5++ save, not ignore hits, the thing isn't big enough to absorb D shots, or if you do go down that route to protect it from D shots then it is a one trick pony, it's 5++ against all weapons till a D shot hits it, then if it does save the shot the shield is burnt out for the rest of the game. No matter how unlikely it is on the table top, this Titan should have no hope in hell's chance of been able to stand up to a titan rocking multiple D weapons and walk out unscathed.

Also, your Vulcan Psycannon rules don't fit the weapon currently, look of the size of that thing, those shells are going to be pretty big, they should be small blast template at least! Reduce the amount of shot but make each hit a blast template. Or keep the amount of shots and ass the small blast template and keep the point cost higher.

Bah - I was trying to figure out a weapon that was that large and still retained some sort of gatling cannon - but I assumed 15 S:7 AP:3 shots with a small blast might get ridiculous hahaha.
Yeah I am not sure what to do with the shield - I know that Titan's have Void Shields - but I do not know what happens when the void shield is hit by a D weapon?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bah you know what I still just included the Void Shields

I will knock down the Hull Points to 12 (so it has 4 Structure Points) and I will increase its Void Shield Capacity to 3 (One more than a Warhound)

That way he replaces the Void Shield on a 5+ for every structure point he has left, and the shield itself is armour 14 (? not sure of this I have to check the book when I get home?)

I think that balanced it out really well.


As for the Gun this is what I am doing - A new rule explosive Shells. The Gun fires these big explosive slugs that each successful wound counts as 2 wounds on the unit instead of one (therefore getting the possibility of 30 wounds). Knock it down to 15 shots and now Suppressive Destruction is only D6

WORKS OUT AWESOMELY!

sounds good, i opted for D6 'cos if you find yourself facing an imperial guard parking lot, an 18" line could hit an awful lot of units, and so get an awful lot of hits. the idea of pinning an 18" line of infantry units is pretty awesome though!

sounds pretty cool

Well after I thought of the extra wound for the one wound created.... D6 would be enough per unit

Now lets start a trend and buy this model and use these rules

Here I made stat cards

fidel wrote:

some bloke wrote:
s

1332 points (?) (still unsure about this point score) [bonus points if you guess why it is such an odd number )

I see what you did there... 666 x 2.

fidel wrote:

some bloke wrote:
s

1332 points (?) (still unsure about this point score) [bonus points if you guess why it is such an odd number )

I see what you did there... 666 x 2.

WINNER you win.... internetz... +1


So as an update. Got to play the titan today in an apoc game. It is a little overpriced for what it did (which sucks because I really like the whole 666x2=1332 inside joke thing). The main cannon works awesomely - and the double wound rule makes it fair as all hell. The D-Stregnth sword is hilarious (killed a gate and a bastion in one swing ) So after much deliberation with the group on what to change this is what we got.

First - we give it "Shunt" - yes... the Dreadknight version of Shunt ( once per game It can forgo movement to move 30 inches - cannot Assault). Now some might be asking why do that at all if most of its weapons are 24"+ range. AHHHHHHH - well we take away its hull mounted psilancers and replace them with Heavy Psiflamers with torrent (deploy flamer template within 12 inches, S:7 AP:3). Now paired with shunt this dreadknight roasts infantry in the trenches while focusing fire on heavier targets with the main cannon. Then we knock the whole Titan down to 1000 points.

what you guys think