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Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




A pretty successfull way to play Space Wolves has been to get the charge. Trying that, three problems occur:

1. You need to get close. - Solution: Pods.

2. You need to survive your adversaries shooting. - Solution: Less toys, more boys (I forgot who said that, but Im stll impressed )

3. People charge you, before you can charge them. This is what concerns me most. - possible Solution: Bind and block.

Heres a list that does all the above things:

 

Rune Priest on bike, Frostblade, Pistol, Frags. = 132 pts

Wolf Guard Battle Leader on bike, Frostblade, Pistol, Frags. = 112 pts

2x 3 Blood Claw bikers = 90 pts each

These units turboboost, and assault the opponent in the turn, where our troops disembark and prepare to charge.

Venerable SW Dread, AC in Pod (no Flamer etc.) = 185 pts

Venerable Marine Dread, AC, Tankhunter in Pod (no Flamer etc.) = 165 pts

These drop right next to the opponent, try to block the path towards the dismbarking troops and shoot at the biggest threats.

1x 8 Grey Hunters, 2 Fists, 1 Melta in Pod = 206 pts

5x 8 Blood Claws, 2 Fists, 1 Melta in Pod = 174 pts

These provide the offensive power. Besides that they are pretty resilient.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1850 pts, 66 models, 10 scoring units.

 

Whats your opinion? Which armys will cause trouble?

   
Made in us
Bloodtracker




black woods

I might be wrong but I thought in a SW army, everyone has to use a drop pod.

"I need our remaining National Guard soldiers to stay in Oregon to protect our forests."==Democrat Ted Kulongoski of Oregon on the good use for his NG 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Think about using a Wolf Priest instead of a Rune Priest, since bikes don't get cover saves.

Try this out, but the hunters might be better than the claws just because of higher BS and WS.  The hunters have pistols, right?


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Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




@ Iron Wolves: The official FAQ stats that SW use the drop pod rules from Codex Space Marines.

@ Mr. X: I dont quite understand. Why dont bikers get coversaves? The initiative 10 from Stormcaller was the main reason to include the RP.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

Bikes didn't get cover saves in 3rd ed. And in 3rd ed an army using the old DP rules had to be an all-DP army.

Update, folks!

It looks pretty solid to me. You had better use some good LOS-blocking terrain to hide the bikers, because any decent shooty army is going to be able to put out enough shots to wipe them out, Turbo-boosting or not. You might consider scrounging a few more points for the characters-SW have a 2+ armor save item, right? It's going to be key for your characters and Blood Claw bikers to split up and tie down multiple units on the turn you start dropping.

I still think you're undervaluing the Grey Hunters, but this list makes better use of the Blood Claws if it does work, as you'll actually be getting the charge a little more often.

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Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




Good point about using cover for the bikes. I hope Ill be able to hide 8 Bikes in most games.

Hunters vs Claws Two things make me prefer Claws:

3 x 8 Bloodclaws cost about as much as 2 x 10 Hunters and the BCs are not only way better on the charge, they even shoot(!) better against most targets, are better at recieving charges and can absorb more wounds.

Besides that trait-marines with 2 Meltaguns are 3 pts cheaper and imo better then Hunters, so with Hunters Id play a weaker version of trait-marines at best.

   
Made in no
Fresh-Faced New User




I dont understand how your Blood Claws shoot better than Grey Hunters?
Can you or someone else please do the numbers on that? Maybe I need some BC in my army afterall if this turns out to be true.

On the other hand your list looks very powerful to me now, only thing I can think of is why dont you have fist/weapon on your bikes?
   
Made in jp
Regular Dakkanaut




Yeah statistically its wrong sadly. 3x8man claws get 12 hits, 2x10 hunters get 13 and a bit. So- no they dont "shoot better" .
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





I think the only better place they are at shooting is that:
3 bs 3 meltaguns -> 1.5 hits
2 bs 4 meltaguns -> 1.33~ hits

The bolter hits really don't matter that much.
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




Longshot has it right.

There are rare occasions where hunters are better. Against Gene Stealers with 5+ saves for example their Bolters and WS4 make a difference. When you look at the overall picture though, Claws come out on top when charging by a lot, and are more resilient when shot at (more wounds for the same price). in all other fields both units are pretty similar.
I really see no incentive to use Grey Hunters vs allcomers. (besides compositon and modeling reasons)
   
Made in no
Fresh-Faced New User




Ok I didnt think about you getting more melta hits, thats good.

Can you please say what you mean by "Bind and block"? - (english is not my first language and I dont entirely understand the term.)
   
Made in us
Confident Marauder Chieftain





Unless I'm mistaken, I believe it means:

Bind - charging your opponent's units with tough units of your own to rob them of the opportunity to get the charge bonus.  Thus, you are 'binding them in place' with the tough unit so that another of your units will be able to charge in and help finish off whatever's left.  The binding unit needs to be able to survive, not necessarily dish out punishment.  Other examples include things like Scarab Swarms (Necrons) and Ripper Swarms (Tyranids) - both of which are composed of multi-wound models that don't fight particularly well but do a great job at binding anything that isn't Strength 6+ (due to instakill).

Block - blocking off your opponent's assault units with something they have to go around (such as a drop pod).  Ideally, you would aim to block off a natural choke point with a combination of impassable terrain (the choke) and your blocking material.  Another example would be the Tau 'Fish of Fury' which is a Devilfish transport full of Firewarriors.  The Firewarriors disembark behind the Devilfish and fire under it (since it's a skimmer), forcing any unit on the other side to waste a turn going around the transport to get the charge in against the troops.

KW

 

   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




Couldnt have said it better.

Additionally with 3 bikes one can keep a single bike out of the killzone, to make shure the combat will go on most likely.

They also seem to be usefull as a blocking unit, since its hard to kill them by shooting alone. (invul“save after boosting and T5)
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





I think I'd just stick to independent character bikes and use IC bonus to protect them once the pods start dropping.

If the pod is closer, they shoot the pod. Yay.
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




The beauty of bikers in this setup is their good number of different uses, depending on the situation. One can either have the seperate IC hide, or one can join two ICs with a bike unit to generate a unit that provides a lot of high ini attacks. Or one can join an IC to a bike unit, charge and keep him out of the killzone. Then in the opponents turn the IC piles in and finishes the opponent, without standing in the open.
   
 
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