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I've read on quite a few places recently that Cadia is all but lost to Chaos; I always thought that the Imperium still thoroughly controlled it. I know that Chaos had a small foothold on it but I didn't know they nigh on conquered the planet. Is this true if so where do it say this (codex, rule book etc) If not is this just another case of everyone's interpretation of the 40k lore being slightly different?

Last I read Chaos have over 60% of the planet but lost control of the space surrounding it.
It was the results of a large campaign held across the country (Where chaos actually won pretty handedly IIRC)

Basically, after revamping the actual results of the world-wide campaign (because Team Chaos had their gak together and handily beat the pants off Team Imperial), Chaos has a significant ground-force on Cadia, controls most of the planet, and has destroyed most of the Kasrs (the fortress-cities).

The Imperium, though, has established superiority of the space around Cadia, meaning that the forces of Chaos currently on the ground don't have any air support from space. This may or may not be that big a deal, depending on whether or not GW remembers that Chaos can open gates from Point A to B and march armies and supplies through them.


There's a thread somewhere on these forums, which I can't find at the moment, that sums up the results of the 13th Black Crusade quite nicely, and indicates how, exactly, the Imperium managed to lose very badly, to the point that GW had to re-write the ending in order to not fundamentally change the game.

watchamacarcess wrote:If not is this just another case of everyone's interpretation of the 40k lore being slightly different?

Largely - aggravated by the fact that GW seems to have backpedaled a bit in its own sources. If you look at the timetable of events in the 6E rulebook, you'll note that the invasion of Cadia is just beginning, rather than already having occurred. I'd assume this follows the studio's usual intention to let everyone figure things out for their own games, preserving Cadia as a potential battleground for players rather than having them feel like they're "just replaying" something that has already been dealt with.

 purplefood wrote:
Last I read Chaos have over 60% of the planet but lost control of the space surrounding it.
It was the results of a large campaign held across the country (Where chaos actually won pretty handedly IIRC)

If the situation is as bad as this and Chaos control the majority of the planet (although not by much) then how come Cadians are still the main Imperial Guard force seen in pictures and stories? Hell they are basically the Imperial Guard version of Ultramarines. Surely they would be too busy reclaiming their home planet than to send large forces elsewhere. I am aware that the planet has its tithe but surely the large amount of Cadians seen is too large to be a standard tithe grade.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lynata wrote:

watchamacarcess wrote:If not is this just another case of everyone's interpretation of the 40k lore being slightly different?

Largely - aggravated by the fact that GW seems to have backpedaled a bit in its own sources. If you look at the timetable of events in the 6E rulebook, you'll note that the invasion of Cadia is just beginning, rather than already having occurred. I'd assume this follows the studio's usual intention to let everyone figure things out for their own games, preserving Cadia as a potential battleground for players rather than having them feel like they're "just replaying" something that has already been dealt with.

So they're trying to basically rewrite their own history and pretend the invasion never happened? Preserving it as a battle ground, you mean like Armageddon? just a constant war.

 watchamacarcess wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Last I read Chaos have over 60% of the planet but lost control of the space surrounding it.
It was the results of a large campaign held across the country (Where chaos actually won pretty handedly IIRC)

If the situation is as bad as this and Chaos control the majority of the planet (although not by much) then how come Cadians are still the main Imperial Guard force seen in pictures and stories? Hell they are basically the Imperial Guard version of Ultramarines. Surely they would be too busy reclaiming their home planet than to send large forces elsewhere. I am aware that the planet has its tithe but surely the large amount of Cadians seen is too large to be a standard tithe grade.

Except that 40k has gone backwards in time (in terms of fluff) to right as it breaks out rewinding the fluff so why would the cadians need this just yet? Along with that, the game is made so you can pretty much make up your own battle for thousands of years before the Cadian planet began its fall to chaos. Along with that the galaxy is a large place and information is unreliable to be sent. That and you forget the slow process of the munitorium grating along an inch at a time for anything to work. Another factor is that, if memory serves me, it wasn't just Cadia. It was the entire sector that got struck. Many planets fell, many went to rebellion, some remained tall and strong bastions, etc. Finally, whilst chaos is a frightening army and the Imperium has the whole entire DREADED ENEMY! thing going for them.... it isn't their only fear. Ghazgull Trhaka's battle almost cost the imperium Armageddon, Necrons are waking up running amok, Tyranids are ripping holes throughout the galaxy devouring everything, DE and E are committing surprise hit and runs everywhere, local rebellions happen likely daily (an entire sector pretty much dissapeared from the imperium due to seeds of chaos breaking out in the west-most sector), and then there is the slow spreading of Tau and the ever terrifying threat that a Chaos Daemon Primarch might pop out, say hi, and rip apart a few planets. Also warp transport isn't exactly your best friend.

And yeah both yes and no. They back-pedaled to it just breaking out. The ending of the battle is implied to be the same with chaos winning. To be frank the battle thing could have likely continued from how they forced it from a very satisfying chaos victory to a more slight chaos victory but oh well.

For all 13th Black Crusade information needs:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/392010.page

Taken direct from sources, not random made up speculation or hearsay.

 watchamacarcess wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Last I read Chaos have over 60% of the planet but lost control of the space surrounding it.
It was the results of a large campaign held across the country (Where chaos actually won pretty handedly IIRC)

If the situation is as bad as this and Chaos control the majority of the planet (although not by much) then how come Cadians are still the main Imperial Guard force seen in pictures and stories? Hell they are basically the Imperial Guard version of Ultramarines. Surely they would be too busy reclaiming their home planet than to send large forces elsewhere. I am aware that the planet has its tithe but surely the large amount of Cadians seen is too large to be a standard tithe grade.

This is what I don't understand either. If Cadia is 60% controlled by Chaos why are cadians found everywhere? On Armegeddon Cadia had 15 regiments of troops present, while there were only 25 "total" steel legion regiments. How is it possible & why is Cadia supporting troops all over the galaxy to every warfront when they cannot even secure their own planet?

LIVE FOR CHAOS!
REVEL IN THE SLAUGHTER!
DROWN IN THE ECSTACY!

DRINK FROM THERE SKULLS!

CADIA WILL BE OURS!!!

Commissar Benny wrote:

 watchamacarcess wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Last I read Chaos have over 60% of the planet but lost control of the space surrounding it.
It was the results of a large campaign held across the country (Where chaos actually won pretty handedly IIRC)

If the situation is as bad as this and Chaos control the majority of the planet (although not by much) then how come Cadians are still the main Imperial Guard force seen in pictures and stories? Hell they are basically the Imperial Guard version of Ultramarines. Surely they would be too busy reclaiming their home planet than to send large forces elsewhere. I am aware that the planet has its tithe but surely the large amount of Cadians seen is too large to be a standard tithe grade.

This is what I don't understand either. If Cadia is 60% controlled by Chaos why are cadians found everywhere? On Armegeddon Cadia had 15 regiments of troops present, while there were only 25 "total" steel legion regiments. How is it possible & why is Cadia supporting troops all over the galaxy to every warfront when they cannot even secure their own planet?

Purely speculation but warp travel and the Imperium being what they are those regiments could have left Cadia 100's of years before the black crusade. I'm not sure what codex or fluff book its in but I'm pretty sure guard regiments have reached war zones that have been secured for decades and more.

Real world explanation - Cadians are one of only two plastic IG model options, the other being the rather terrible Catachan models. So they're going to turn up in lots of promo shots, battle reports, etc etc. That's gotta be worked into fluff somehow. I like AustonT's explanation of warp travel going askew for this.

There is also a side explanation that Cadia isn't defended by Cadian regiments alone, other regiments were pulled in from different planets - the Administratum could be running a "like-for-like" trading system.

Plus a variety of regiments have apparently looked at Cadian kit, decided that it looks the business and copied it. So they may not be Cadians, but any other Guardsmen wearing Cadia Pattern Flak Armour

...though those would probably use different colours. The 3E Guard Codex had two pages of camo schemes as inspiration for players to paint their Cadians or Cadian-Lookalikes with.

But AustonT already mentioned the most likely in-universe explanation. It can take weeks, months, or in some exceptional cases even years for a ship to get from point A to point B, and troops already engaged in a campaign are likely to remain there until its conclusion, with the Adeptus Munitorum instead sending forces from elsewhere to make up for their absence. The regiments won't just pack up and leave every battlefield to the enemy, and in case of the Third War of Armageddon, GW fluff makes it clear that troop deployments took place long before the Imperium had an idea of Abbadon's plans.

Only the Space Marines are noted to have engaged in a considerable redeployment of their forces from Armageddon to Cadia, as the "current" Armageddon is experiencing its so-called Season of Fire, which sees large regions of the planet rendered inaccessible due to environmental hazards making infantry engagements in the open all but impossible, instead transforming most of the conflict into trench warfare. The Space Marines, whose combat doctrines favour mobility over static engagements, have thus chosen to leave - which is why you can see many of the same Chapters who fought on Armageddon show up again at the Cadian Gate. The first Chapter to leave Armageddon were the Relictors, who almost were fired upon by Imperial Navy picket ships for packing up without first requesting permission from Central Command. Dante ultimately resolved the situation and permitted them to go, after which many of the other Chapters gradually left Armageddon as well, seeing that they could be more useful elsewhere. At the time, nobody knew about the upcoming crisis; they basically found out as they were already underway and quickly changed course.

As for the Imperial Guard, the Munitorum would surely reroute any available forces to the Cadian sector, both from the Cadian Shock Troops who have rotated from the Interior Guard into IG service, as well as regiments from other worlds - but likely without sacrificing other important battlefields in the Imperium. The war on Armageddon continues without an end in sight, but there are probably a lot of lesser known warzones across Imperial space where the same thing holds true. The Imperium is constantly under pressure, and only through the constant sacrifice of its people's lives can the status quo be maintained.


Plus, Codex covers, artwork or battle photos do not necessarily have to depict the "now" but may just as well refer to legendary battles that have taken place millennia ago.

Graphite wrote:
Plus a variety of regiments have apparently looked at Cadian kit, decided that it looks the business and copied it. So they may not be Cadians, but any other Guardsmen wearing Cadia Pattern Flak Armour

Is there actually any evidence for the armour being 'Cadia pattern' and not in fact an import along with the Kantrael pattern lasguns?

Not that I'm aware of, but there was a reference that other regiments copy their kit. It might be manufactured on Kantrael along with their Lasguns and shipped everywhere else in the segmentum.

 Super Ready wrote:
Real world explanation - Cadians are one of only two plastic IG model options, the other being the rather terrible Catachan models. So they're going to turn up in lots of promo shots, battle reports, etc etc. That's gotta be worked into fluff somehow. I like AustonT's explanation of warp travel going askew for this.

There is also a side explanation that Cadia isn't defended by Cadian regiments alone, other regiments were pulled in from different planets - the Administratum could be running a "like-for-like" trading system.

Not only that but Cadian regiments are not simply on Cadia. Cadian regiments can be found fighting in pretty much any campaign/warzone active.

Cadia is (mostly) occupied by Chaos in the year 999 of the 40th millennium. With the exception of the Ciaphas Cain novels and perhaps VERY few others, all WH40k stories have taken place before this time or, at the very most, during it. Thus you see lots of Cadians because Cadia hadn't been overrun yet.

That said, besides the major conflicts, I don't think most of the novella and short stories actually feature Cadians to my knowledge.

Minor nitpick: 41st millenium