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Not sure If I like the Fire Prism over a second Falcon yet...but I enjoy versatility...I've yet to playtest the Spirit Stones on anything besides the spinner...which I think they're necessary on.

What do you think of turning the Storm's Serpent into a dual Shuriken boat instead of Scatters? I know its unconventional...but they're the most likely to want their shields up and be within 24"

HQ
-Autarch (Jetbike; Banshee Mask; Fusion Gun; Laser Lance; Mantle of the Laughing God)

-Farseer (Bike; SInging Spear)

TROOP
-10 Guardian Defenders
---Wave Serpent (TL Scatter Lasers; Holo-Fields)

-10 Guardian Defenders
---Wave Serpent (TL Scatter Lasers; Holo-Fields)

-10 Storm Guardians (Flamer x2)
---Wave Serpent (TL Scatter Lasers; Holo-Fields)

-5 Rangers

FAST
-Crimson Hunter

-4 Shining Spears (Exarch; Star Lance; Monster Hunter)

-6 Swooping Hawks (Exarch; Sunrifle)

HEAVY
-Falcon (Bright Lance; Holo-Fields)

-Falcon (Bright Lance; Holo-Fields)

-Night Spinner (Spirit Stones)

1848/1850

*reserved while I type*

Edit: Spirit stones are very good. I tend to only fit them in if I can though, most of the time 10 points would be better spent elsewhere.

I hate to stick with la mode but falcons suck nowadays. It's kinda not arguable :( Too bad though, I like Falcons.

I feel your Shining Spears will be focussed down very quickly. And the 5 Dire Avenger squad just reaks filler, Rangers would be a perfect replacement.

Plan for Spiritseer? Imho spiritseers are just glorified warlocks. And farseers are better. Plus spiritseers have a gak model.

Try and fit in just 6 jetbikes it woull complement your list tremendously.

IcyFireKnight wrote:
*reserved while I type*

Ninja-proofed

owned lel

edit:

I can easily replace the Dire Avengers with 5 Rangers and was thinking about doing so.

I hate WindRiders...passionately.

The spiritseer is a glorified warlock...I happen to love runes of battle.

Falcons have been tearing up Broadsides and Paladins all day long for me...Far outstripping the hit or miss Prism damage output. 3x S8 AP2 > S7 AP2 or S9 AP1 for me...and S5 AP3 is medicre in my marine-less meta.

The Hunter, Spears, Hawks, and Spinner all come in turn 2.

Warlocks roll on runes of battle...

Yeah...I am not getting the disconnect?

I like Runes of battle...especially for use with the stormies.

Why not have 2 Warlocks instead of a single spiritseer?

With no Farseer in the list, guide and prescience for the Fire Prism are out of the question. Given this, I think Falcons are the better option, especially if you are having success with them in your meta. They got MUCH better now with BS4 and the Pulse Laser is often a surprise for opponents that think their 2+ sv models are safe.

The fire prism has a pretty good chance at missing without the help of guide (due to blast templates). I think double falcons is the way to go.

You may not get crushing victories all the time, but I am of the same mind that there are plenty of under-appreciated but still effective units in the new 'dex.

Not a huge fan of the crimson hunter. Doesn't it die as soon as your opponent gets a shooting phase with it on the board?

Because then the solitaire is the warlord...and that's an easy victory point to lose.


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I actually had 2 Falcons in the list originally...I just now changed it out...glad to hear you agree with the idea.

Crimson Hunter?...not really...most units that are good at killing it are 36" away and the Hunter can fly circles around enemy threat vectors.

I generally get 2-3 turns of neutering tanks until I go in for a suicide run late game.

I'm not trying to pick on you at all, I don't know your meta. But around here Aegis defense line is almost in 9/10 armies. That means that unless your opponent has vehicles sitting far ahead of or to the side of the board of where the Aegis gun is, that you will usually be catching 4 s7 shots on your hunter.

Unless you focus the aegis gun to death before the hunter arrives...I have heard mixed reviews about this.

I think basically ignoring the tremendous Psyker potential that the Eldar have is a bit of a mistake...

I DO like the idea of rangers though!

0 out of all armies here use an aegis line...there is also a fair amount of tau so there aren't many fliers either...wow...I really like how that all balances out.

The Hunter is also fairly small and easily hidden behind ruins and buildings

All for Psykers...I already have bugs...I don't need a lesser psychic army.

So I'm curious, do you really want feedback? Or suggestions? Or are you just here to post how you pwn your local meta?

I am refining the list...the rangers are definitely being swapped in for the dire avengers...and the prism is coming out for a second similarly set up falcon.

I am still wondering if anyone thinks the dual shuriken serpent is worth it.


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There, I've changed the list to reflect the posters' input.

Absolutely no falcon. I'm sorry. Just please don't. And not because fire prisms are better, because serpents are WAY better. Every day of the week.
Go onto mathhammer40k.com and put in the statistics. Sprints win very time.

Also where is spirit sear going? Theirs nowhere for him to really go. I'm sorry.

In response to icefireknights post up their, why not take two warlocks.... He should. At least it's better than the spirit sear. More versatility. Putthem in guardian squads, your better off than before.


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And no th shuikrn serpent is not.

So ninja, are you saying that you would just squeeze in another serpent over Fireprisms?


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Also I am not on board with the storm-G's.

A Falcon takes more wounds off anything with a 3+ or better...it's causing more wrecked results to everything above AV10 on this website.

Also, its doubling out T4 things.

Serpents kill 4+ infantry and fliers easier by far.

Serpents are not "better" than Falcons...they're "different"

Its like comparing Fire Dragons and Marines.

Thanks for the link though...its great for very basic concepts.



The spiritseer...he's got no real home I know...but investing more point in a farseer is not really an option...I've crammed the list too full of goodies to get any more points out of it.

I would also be offering up that warlord victory point.

What do you mean....Serpents are extremely similar to Falcons. Let's see,

- Falcons cost 15 points more in your case, where you get 3 S8 AP2 shots. Serpents get 4 S7 twin-linked, 4 S6 twin-linked and 3 S6 twin-linked rending shots moving 6". When moving 12" you'll want the shield up so you'll fire the shuriken cannon. In this case Serpents are extremely well protected from penetrating shots. Falcons can get penetrated, and if its by AP1 or AP2 (which it is most of the time) spirit stones will be a waste of 10 points.

- Against infantry, falcons can take out on average 2 models against all saves. Serpents on the other hand, when firing all of their guns (bearing in mind that when the Serpent doesn't fire all of its guns, it gets increased mobility - not to mention vectored engines - and survivability, with the shield), get 11 shots. Let's say you miss 4 and regain 2 (I'm using bad rolls here). So that's 9 shots hit. Let's say each weapon hits 3 shots. That's 3 S7 shots and 6 S6 shots, half of which are rending. That's gonna be a 2+ against 90% of infantry. So you wounded them 7 times, once again using bad rolls. Against 4+ and above it's a clear win. Yet still at 3+ you've got 2.33 unsaved wounds, not to mention the 50% chance of getting an AP2 shot with the cannon. Adding on all the bad rolls I did, on average wave serpents still do better vs 3+. Against 2+, falcons come out just on top (falcons give just under 2 wounds but serpents give just under that).

- Now I'm not entirely on the other side here, Falcons do beat serpents against tanks, but serpents don't fire against tanks bar when you give them TL-BL. I'm going to compare them to Fire Prisms. (Falcon haters, get ready) Fire Prisms take out AV12 with a 3+ 3+ 4+. Falcons do it with a 3+ 4+ 5+ multiplied by 3. Falcons come out on top. So they're good vs AV12. Falcons have a 3/9 chance of exploding AV12 whereas fire prisms only have 2/9. Against AV13 Falcons have a 7/27 chance, STILL beating the Fire Prisms 6/27 chance. But against AV14 Fire Prisms win.

Nevertheless Fire Prisms are more versatile.




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Also Wave Serpents >>> Falcons which are still pissing about in the HS section. fak you gw

Thanks for that well thought out and informative synopsis.

I just really need to double out multiwound T4 stuff...and falcons give me the edge on that.

If I lose the spiritseer and rangers I can get a jetseer with spear in and have 24 points to spread around.

keep the rangers, one squad is just the glue on the joint.

double out what kind of multiwound T4 stuff?

Broadsides, Paladins, Wraiths, Crisis Suits, sometimes Warriors and the like.

*edited the list*


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I want at least the one Falcon...it gives me options with the transport capacity and I love the triple S8 AP2...with that being said, now that I have a farseer might a solo prism be worth considering again?

Ninja, I completely disagree with you on the Spiritseer gripe. Sure, Warlocks are much better if you want a sure thing 'Conceal/Reveal' on a squad like Jetbikes or Defenders, but the Spiritseers two rolls and ability to roll on something other than Runes of Battle is VERY handy in a TAC environment.

Other points for me:
Seems like a solid saturation of AV12, that should help versus certain lists.
I'm not a fan of Swooping Hawks. I've tried them a few times and rarely do they get their points back. Too situational to be better than Spiders.
I've playtested both and find the Fire Prism far better of unit, but I also do run a Farseer and forward Spiritiseer. Having this casting support makes the Prisms VERY deadly. I love watching a Dark Angel player cry when I reduce Terminator armor to 3+ and drop the Prism template on top of them.

Or you could not get a 1/6 chance and then just drop a baby prism template.

IcyFireKnight wrote:
Or you could not get a 1/6 chance and then just drop a baby prism template.

Statistics say that the template has a 67% of scattering 3" on average...for a 3" template that's a big deal...and I am not considering psychic powers because it isn't guarunteed. A S7 small blast was very well thought out by GW for its hit or miss effectiveness.

The large blast is the reason you take the prism...the other 2 fire modes are just gravy...

Spiritseer is a 1/3 chance...not great...but its something

Lol no...Aim the template in the middle of the squad and you're bound to get a few. If you only use the fire prism for a S5 AP3 large blast then you aren't utilising its versatility.


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I fail to see how 3" is more of a big deal to smaller circles than to larger circles.

IcyFireKnight wrote:
I fail to see how 3" is more of a big deal to smaller circles than to larger circles.

A large blast template has a radius of 2.5"...so an average 3" move means it might be off a half inch...a 1.5" radius means the template is much more likely to miss its initial target completely.