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2013/08/03 14:31:30
Subject: Wikileaks are apparently working hand in hand with the Russian FSB.
Michael Kelley wrote:Edward Snowden Walked Right Into A Bizarre Alliance Between Wikileaks And Russia
Julian Assange during an episode of his show, "The World Tomorrow," which aired on Russia Today.
One thing that has become clear as the Edward Snowden saga unfolds is that WikiLeaks and Russia have both been integral to the NSA leaker's arrival and extended stay in Moscow.
The Kremlin and the renegade publisher haven't overtly coordinated moves in regards to Snowden, but they certainly haven't been working against each other.
And the two had a shared history before Snowden arrived in Moscow.
Here are a few notable details from a tentative timeline of Edward Snowden and his associates created by former senior U.S. intelligence analyst Joshua Foust:
•November 2, 2010: An official at the Center for Information Security of the FSB, Russia’s secret police, told the independent Russian news website LifeNews “It’s essential to remember that given the will and the relevant orders, [WikiLeaks] can be made inaccessible forever.”
•December, 2010: Israel Shamir, a long-standing associate of Wikileaks traveled to Belarus, a close ally of Russia, in December with a cache of Wikileaks files. Belarussian authorities published the cables and cracked down, harshly, on pro-democracy activists.
•April 17, 2012: Government-funded Russian TV station RT gives [WikiLeaks founder] Julian Assange his own talk show.
•June 23, 2013: Izvestia , a state-owned Russian newspaper, writes that the Kremlin and its intelligence services collaborated with Wikileaks to help Snowden escape from Hong Kong (Wikileaks did not mention any official involvement in Snowden’s departure from Hong Kong in their press statements).
Ever since the 30-year-old ex-Booz Allen contractor got on a flight from Hong Kong to Moscow, Russia and WikiLeaks have been working parallel to each other.
On June 23 , after the U.S. voided Snowden's passport while he was in Hong Kong, WikiLeaks tweeted that the organization "assisted Mr. Snowden's political asylum in a democratic country, travel papers ans [sic] safe exit from Hong Kong."
That was followed by the update that "Mr. Snowden is currently over Russian airspace accompanied by WikiLeaks legal advisors."
It turned out that Assange convinced Ecuador's consul in London to provide a travel document requesting that authorities allow Snowden to travel to Ecuador "for the purpose of political asylum." The country's president subsequently said the document was " completely invalid."
When Snowden arrived in Moscow with void travel papers, all signs suggest that Russia's domestic intelligence service (i.e. FSB) took control of him.
That day a radio host in Moscow "saw about 20 Russian officials, supposedly FSB agents, in suits, crowding around somebody in a restricted area of the airport," according to Anna Nemtsova of Foreign Policy .
WikiLeaks, meanwhile, insisted that Snowden was "not being 'debriefed' by the FSB."
Nevertheless, Snowden's FSB-linked Moscow lawyer, Anatoly Kucherena, has been speaking for Snowden ever since Snowden accepted all offers for support and asylum on July 12.
On July 11 WikiLeaks had said that Snowden and it had " made sure that he cannot be meaningfully coersed [sic] by either the US or its rivals ," even though that cannot be guaranteed when Russian intelligence is in play.
On Thursday Kucherena announced that Russia has granted Snowden temporary asylum — giving him " the same rights and freedoms possessed by [Russian] citizens" — and led him to a car that would take him to a "secure location."
WikiLeaks then announced that Sarah Harrison, Assange's closest advisor, "has remained with Mr. Snowden at all times to protect his safety and security, including during his exit from Hong Kong. They departed from the airport together in a taxi and are headed to a secure, confidential place."
And it tweeted this:
We would like to thank the Russian people and all those others who have helped to protect Mr. Snowden. We have won the battle--now the war.
— WikiLeaks (@wikileaks) August 1, 2013
(WikiLeaks’ spokesman Kristinn Hrafnsson told RT that the "war" is "a war against secrecy ... a war for transparency, [and] a war for government accountability.")
All in all, the organization's gratitude for those " who have helped to protect Mr. Snowden " — which primarily includes the FSB and Harrison — raises the question of how much the WikiLeaks and the Kremlin have coordinated during the Snowden saga.
2013/08/03 14:46:28
Subject: Wikileaks are apparently working hand in hand with the Russian FSB.
The Kremlin and the renegade publisher haven't overtly coordinated moves in regards to Snowden, but they certainly haven't been working against each other
To me, this is the hallmark of a non-story.
2013/08/03 14:57:06
Subject: Wikileaks are apparently working hand in hand with the Russian FSB.
d-usa wrote: I can see Russia working with Wikileaks.
"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer" comes to mind.
I was thinking closer to the "useful idiots" analogy.
Yeah, I sorta saw it the same Breotan. I mean, we know that Russia has been after us since WW2, so it only makes sense for them to get someone who can/will get whatever "intel" they can get their hands on, without russia getting its hands very dirty.
2013/08/03 16:51:58
Subject: Wikileaks are apparently working hand in hand with the Russian FSB.
d-usa wrote: I can see Russia working with Wikileaks.
"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer" comes to mind.
I was thinking closer to the "useful idiots" analogy.
Yeah, I sorta saw it the same Breotan. I mean, we know that Russia has been after us since WW2, so it only makes sense for them to get someone who can/will get whatever "intel" they can get their hands on, without russia getting its hands very dirty.
I think you are painting the Russians as cheap petty opportunists, which is somewhat unfair.
Assange is a toolbox for those who can cultivate links to him and are not currently sitting with their own balls in his hands. Wikileaks has massive amounts of data, much of it unreleased leaked by Manning. Both Assange and Maning have claimed before that much of what wikileaks has was never published and some never will.
I think there is a price involved, also Assange can discretely sell some undisclosed information to discrete clientsin return for special favours.
I can see why Mosocw finds him interesting. Any discomfort and embarrassment in Washington is merely a side effect, much of the Russian hierarchy is thinking similarly to the how the Soviets did and the Soviets were largely disinterested in international spin, in Soviet doctrine you score points decision maker to decision maker, court of world opinion being distinctly secondary. Frankly I think they have a more mature attitude to international relations.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
2013/08/04 05:11:28
Subject: Wikileaks are apparently working hand in hand with the Russian FSB.
dogma wrote: Wait, you honestly believe that the Soviets were not concerned with "international spin"?
Is that why they launched Sputnik, had massive parades, and generally extolled the virtues of Communism?
I think his point was that it wasn't their first priority (not that I agree). From what I can tell, if anything, Communist governments tend to care more than others about International spin. I mean, watch China! They do International spin 24/7.
dogma wrote: Wait, you honestly believe that the Soviets were not concerned with "international spin"?
Is that why they launched Sputnik, had massive parades, and generally extolled the virtues of Communism?
Maybe their doing to others as was done to them.
America said "they're backward" They launch sputnik, put the worlds first man in space. and first space station. Not bad for backward people.
Mayday parades, to celebrate end of second world war. And to reassure allies/people, that it would not happen again.
Extolling the virtues of Communism, of course they're communists why wouldn't they.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/04 14:22:57
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
2013/08/04 16:45:08
Subject: Wikileaks are apparently working hand in hand with the Russian FSB.
dogma wrote: Wait, you honestly believe that the Soviets were not concerned with "international spin"?
Is that why they launched Sputnik, had massive parades, and generally extolled the virtues of Communism?
Thats not 'international spin'. Any spin effect large as it might be is of secondary signifgicance.
Sputnik was a message with decision makers in western governments, its was the western media that made it international spin. the Soviets didn't court the media this way.
The rallies had internal value, you could read a lot into them but often that was all that you could read. If watched who was on Lenins mausoleum close to the premier you could see who was in favour with Moscow. The May Day and other parades was just about the only clue you had a lot of the time. Moscow did not give oput those clues willingly. If the parades were primarily for international spin they would not have occurred as they were consistently read for information that the Svoiets otherwise were able to well conceal.
As for extolling the virtues of Communism, to the Soviets that wasn't spin but as integral to Soviet life as breathing. Extolling communism is not part of any media circus act as we would have it in the west, it was a continuous state of being.
dogma wrote: Wait, you honestly believe that the Soviets were not concerned with "international spin"?
Is that why they launched Sputnik, had massive parades, and generally extolled the virtues of Communism?
I think his point was that it wasn't their first priority (not that I agree). From what I can tell, if anything, Communist governments tend to care more than others about International spin. I mean, watch China! They do International spin 24/7.
China and the Soviet Union are completely different animals.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/04 16:46:08
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
2013/08/04 21:28:51
Subject: Wikileaks are apparently working hand in hand with the Russian FSB.
That's an odd ally to have.
