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It has come to my belief that The imperium is no different than Tyranids and Necrons who all want one single thing.

The be the only living sentient race in the entire galaxy!

Necrons from their beginning almost did this.
Tyranids want it and want to assimilate all beings into them so that only they are left.
Imperium wants to kill all Xenos, until only they are left.

So what are some of the differences between them exactly? lol

I mean, is there ANY hope for any of these races to get along with any single race out there? I heard its possible for Eldar and Imperium to maybe come to an understanding but other than that.

Tau - No uh! Tau want Imperialistic domain over Galaxy.
Orks- Yeah....right..They only want war.
Dark Eldar - They are Pirates....so yeah right
Deamons / Chaos - Evil!!!!!!!!!!!

 Vasarto wrote:
It has come to my belief that The imperium is no different than Tyranids and Necrons who all want one single thing.

The be the only living sentient race in the entire galaxy!

Necrons from their beginning almost did this.
Tyranids want it and want to assimilate all beings into them so that only they are left.
Imperium wants to kill all Xenos, until only they are left.

So what are some of the differences between them exactly? lol

I mean, is there ANY hope for any of these races to get along with any single race out there? I heard its possible for Eldar and Imperium to maybe come to an understanding but other than that.

Tau - No uh! Tau want Imperialistic domain over Galaxy.
Orks- Yeah....right..They only want war.
Dark Eldar - They are Pirates....so yeah right
Deamons / Chaos - Evil!!!!!!!!!!!

Hmmm, I certainly see your point of view here. However, there have been a notable number of times where the Imperium had ordered a cease-fire or cooperation with various xenos races, such as when Space Wolves and an Eldar craftworld (Alaitoc I believe) united to take on a greater foe (Tyranids I think), and after the battle was over, they buried each other's dead. However, after that, supposedly they were conversing, and one of the higher ranking Eldar (I believe it was an Exarch) complemented a Space Wolf, however he misinterpreted what the Eldar was saying, so they started an entirely different battle.
Another example would be when a lesser Space Marine chapter incorrectly assaulted Alaitoc, as they were tricked by an imperial commander who was allowing Eldar Corsairs to raid trading vessels within Imperial-owned space, as long as he got a cut of the rewards, which, when the protagonist of the book informed the chapter master, he popped a cap in the ass of the imperial commander and pulled their forces out.

Supposedly there was a prophecy given to one of the primarchs during the time of the heresy, that if the imperium could hold off the siege of Terra, then neither Chaos nor the Imperium of man would ever win the conflict, and they would be stuck in a never ending cycle of war. (That's actually why this particular primarch joined Chaos)

So here's a list on the "goodness" of the 40K races:
Imperium (Spess Mehreens and Guards) - Varies on a case-by case basis, but generally, they can be good, but they're too busy gaking themselves over heretics and fighting chaos.
Eldar - Quite far up their own asses, but also capable of emphasizing with other races (supposedly they're the ones who enable the tau to stop fighting each other and actually do this whole technological tomfoolery in 6000 years). Also, Eldrad Ulthran did try and warn the imperium of Horus' treachery.
Dark Eldar - I doubt they're ever going to be capable of being "good" - They are the psychopaths of the old Eldar empire, and frequently enslave humans and other races to prevent themselves from being consumed by Slaneesh.
Orkz - KILL DA' UMANS, ORKZ IS BOSS, DAKKADAKKADAKKAA
Necrons - Pretty much hellbent on killing everything and reclaiming the galaxy.
Tau - It would seem you hit the nail on the head with this one, however I wouldn't say they are without their optimism.
Tyranids - Pretty content on killing everything, aswell. But not with any grand scheme.. it would seem..
Chaos Marines and Daemons - Also content on killing everything, but especially the Imperium. However, there is a surprising amount of interest from the Chaos Gods, namely Nurgle, as he is actually the god of life, and quite likes humans, as they can act as a vessel for his disease.

Theretically Eldar could co-exist with the Imperium even under current Imperial policy depending on how one interprets it. The Imperium believes mankind has the right to occupy every planet, but craftworlds don't count since those aren't really planets. Of course, most Imperials want to kill all Eldar anyways and then you have various Eldar who want the Eldar to become the dominant galaxy again. And then there are the exodite planets. Not all Imperials or all Eldar share those views though.

For the Tau to coexist with the Imperium, the Imperium would have to change its policy to allow Xenos to live in the galaxy. For the Tau, they wouldn't mind if the Imperium joined them... as long as the Tau were the first among equals

Some Necrons really just want to be left alone. The vast majority, however, do not, and either want to kill everything else or at the very least become the dominant race and/or take over (via biotransfer) fleshy bodies for themselves.

Chaos doesn't want to kill all humans of the Imperium. They want to take it over, technically, in a round-about way (after toppling the Imperium, Chaos would rule the inhabitants, not wipe them out). Well, that's what they claim at least. In fact, according to Chaos, the original idea was that the Emperor and the Primarchs were supposed to work for them and the Imperium was supposed to be one big fat Chaos galactic Empire, but the Emperor said "Screw that!" Of course, that's according to Chaos and they do have a tendency to not be very trustworthy (but there is some evidence that backs up their claim. Mainly that Chaotic wards were evidenced to be on the Primarch pods BEFORE the pods were lost, though even that evidence could have been an illusion or fabricated). Really, the only chaos god that wants everything to die into nothingness is Malal/Malice. Even Khorne and Nurgle have long-lived daemon planets with populations that haven't killed themselves over.

The Imperium wants to be the only faction in the universe, but they know that in their current position the cannot go on xeno hunting as much as they would want to, so the xenos that aren't an immediate threat are left alone.

The Necrons want fleshies, to be their new bodies and fawn over them.

Well some do anyway.

The Tyranids do not perceive other sapient life as you would understand, but just see food and irritants.

 Kain wrote:
The Necrons want fleshies, to be their new bodies and fawn over them.

Well some do anyway.

The Tyranids do not perceive other sapient life as you would understand, but just see food and irritants.

We aren't sure how the Tyranids see other races, well aside of prey, but they seem to understand that the bunch of primates that taste so good use a combination of different technologies and tactics. And that they aren't a hivemind, so things like morale are important to them.

 Tyran wrote:

 Kain wrote:
The Necrons want fleshies, to be their new bodies and fawn over them.

Well some do anyway.

The Tyranids do not perceive other sapient life as you would understand, but just see food and irritants.

We aren't sure how the Tyranids see other races, well aside of prey, but they seem to understand that the bunch of primates that taste so good use a combination of different technologies and tactics. And that they aren't a hivemind, so things like morale are important to them.

The thing is that sapients contribute to a really tiny portion of a world's biomass in most cases, sapients are more obstacles in the way of devouring the real meat than food in of themselves. Like a sprinkling of Chili.

 Kain wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 Kain wrote:
The Necrons want fleshies, to be their new bodies and fawn over them.

Well some do anyway.

The Tyranids do not perceive other sapient life as you would understand, but just see food and irritants.

We aren't sure how the Tyranids see other races, well aside of prey, but they seem to understand that the bunch of primates that taste so good use a combination of different technologies and tactics. And that they aren't a hivemind, so things like morale are important to them.

The thing is that sapients contribute to a really tiny portion of a world's biomass in most cases, sapients are more obstacles in the way of devouring the real meat than food in of themselves. Like a sprinkling of Chili.

Yeah you are right, more than food they usually are obstacles that have to be overcome.

 Tyran wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 Kain wrote:
The Necrons want fleshies, to be their new bodies and fawn over them.

Well some do anyway.

The Tyranids do not perceive other sapient life as you would understand, but just see food and irritants.

We aren't sure how the Tyranids see other races, well aside of prey, but they seem to understand that the bunch of primates that taste so good use a combination of different technologies and tactics. And that they aren't a hivemind, so things like morale are important to them.

The thing is that sapients contribute to a really tiny portion of a world's biomass in most cases, sapients are more obstacles in the way of devouring the real meat than food in of themselves. Like a sprinkling of Chili.

Yeah you are right, more than food they usually are obstacles that have to be overcome.

The only species who in of themselves are big meals for the Tyranids are orkoids, who pretty much replace the ecosystem with their own anyway.

 Kain wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 Kain wrote:
The Necrons want fleshies, to be their new bodies and fawn over them.

Well some do anyway.

The Tyranids do not perceive other sapient life as you would understand, but just see food and irritants.

We aren't sure how the Tyranids see other races, well aside of prey, but they seem to understand that the bunch of primates that taste so good use a combination of different technologies and tactics. And that they aren't a hivemind, so things like morale are important to them.

The thing is that sapients contribute to a really tiny portion of a world's biomass in most cases, sapients are more obstacles in the way of devouring the real meat than food in of themselves. Like a sprinkling of Chili.

Yeah you are right, more than food they usually are obstacles that have to be overcome.

The only species who in of themselves are big meals for the Tyranids are orkoids, who pretty much replace the ecosystem with their own anyway.

I would like to see more Tyranids vs Orks in the fluff, it is essentially a ecosystem trying to eat another that fights back.

 Tyran wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 Kain wrote:
The Necrons want fleshies, to be their new bodies and fawn over them.

Well some do anyway.

The Tyranids do not perceive other sapient life as you would understand, but just see food and irritants.

We aren't sure how the Tyranids see other races, well aside of prey, but they seem to understand that the bunch of primates that taste so good use a combination of different technologies and tactics. And that they aren't a hivemind, so things like morale are important to them.

The thing is that sapients contribute to a really tiny portion of a world's biomass in most cases, sapients are more obstacles in the way of devouring the real meat than food in of themselves. Like a sprinkling of Chili.

Yeah you are right, more than food they usually are obstacles that have to be overcome.

The only species who in of themselves are big meals for the Tyranids are orkoids, who pretty much replace the ecosystem with their own anyway.

I would like to see more Tyranids vs Orks in the fluff, it is essentially a ecosystem trying to eat another that fights back.

The Ork vs Nid quotes in Dawn of War 2 are the best.

Hormagaunts in your face?

BITE DEM BACK!

The nid codex has a little fluff about fighting some orks, but not enought.

There is the Octarius war, where the Tyriands are fighting orks.
It has also started Countless threads on Dakka which usually have about 2-3 pages of fluff and reason then the resat of them, around page 4-16 is a fanboy war.

If i were the Imperium i would pay off every ork warboss with guns/tanks and ammo, build a green wall around the imperiums perimeter and promise them a good fight every day.. Ah gak it wouldnt work anyway....

I think the Eldar would be the only race that could find it in their heart or best interest to co-exist with other species...sadly all those options dont seem to want to share

 kinratha wrote:
There is the Octarius war, where the Tyriands are fighting orks.
It has also started Countless threads on Dakka which usually have about 2-3 pages of fluff and reason then the resat of them, around page 4-16 is a fanboy war.

What books is the Octarius war from?

Did they ever write anything about it?

 Vasarto wrote:

 kinratha wrote:
There is the Octarius war, where the Tyriands are fighting orks.
It has also started Countless threads on Dakka which usually have about 2-3 pages of fluff and reason then the resat of them, around page 4-16 is a fanboy war.

What books is the Octarius war from?

Did they ever write anything about it?

It's In the Tyriands Codex page 30.

also heres a link to most of the fluff. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Octarius_War#.UgLJmZIsldI

There is very few fluff from the Octavius war, hopefully we will see more on either the next Ork or Tyranid Codex.

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
If i were the Imperium i would pay off every ork warboss with guns/tanks and ammo, build a green wall around the imperiums perimeter and promise them a good fight every day.. Ah gak it wouldnt work anyway....

I think the Eldar would be the only race that could find it in their heart or best interest to co-exist with other species...sadly all those options dont seem to want to share

I can see a lot of holes in your plan, well, actually just one, it is plainly impossible.

TiamatRoar wrote:
Theretically Eldar could co-exist with the Imperium even under current Imperial policy depending on how one interprets it. The Imperium believes mankind has the right to occupy every planet, but craftworlds don't count since those aren't really planets. Of course, most Imperials want to kill all Eldar anyways and then you have various Eldar who want the Eldar to become the dominant galaxy again. And then there are the exodite planets. Not all Imperials or all Eldar share those views though.

For the Tau to coexist with the Imperium, the Imperium would have to change its policy to allow Xenos to live in the galaxy. For the Tau, they wouldn't mind if the Imperium joined them... as long as the Tau were the first among equals

Some Necrons really just want to be left alone. The vast majority, however, do not, and either want to kill everything else or at the very least become the dominant race and/or take over (via biotransfer) fleshy bodies for themselves.

Chaos doesn't want to kill all humans of the Imperium. They want to take it over, technically, in a round-about way (after toppling the Imperium, Chaos would rule the inhabitants, not wipe them out). Well, that's what they claim at least. In fact, according to Chaos, the original idea was that the Emperor and the Primarchs were supposed to work for them and the Imperium was supposed to be one big fat Chaos galactic Empire, but the Emperor said "Screw that!" Of course, that's according to Chaos and they do have a tendency to not be very trustworthy (but there is some evidence that backs up their claim. Mainly that Chaotic wards were evidenced to be on the Primarch pods BEFORE the pods were lost, though even that evidence could have been an illusion or fabricated). Really, the only chaos god that wants everything to die into nothingness is Malal/Malice. Even Khorne and Nurgle have long-lived daemon planets with populations that haven't killed themselves over.

Agreed for the mostpart, but it would seem that GW are content with retcon-ing Malice out of existence, despite him/her/it probably being the most interesting of all the Chaos Gods.

Tyranids want it and want to assimilate all beings into them so that only they are left.

That is anthropormorphizing Nids at the worst.
The dont really want to assimilate anything, they are simply driven by the need to feed, evovle, adapt and ultimately grow (leaving aside their strange and unexplained fascination with the Astromicon).

 Ratius wrote:

Tyranids want it and want to assimilate all beings into them so that only they are left.

That is anthropormorphizing Nids at the worst.
The dont really want to assimilate anything, they are simply driven by the need to feed, evovle, adapt and ultimately grow (leaving aside their strange and unexplained fascination with the Astromicon).

Actually they only want to eat and survive, the adaption and evolving are secondary, the Nids only evolve and adapt when they need to.
And the Astromicon is a big "BUFFET: EAT HERE".

Respectfully disagree. If they only want to eat and survive, then the HiveMind is a pretty one dimensional and basic entiity. Fluff contradicts this.
Evolution imo is their key aim. The more biomass they consume the easier it is for them to evolve the likes of semi/pseudo intelligent organism (i.e. Hive creatures).
Does the Hive Mind really want armies of instinctual creatures ala Termies/Hormies/Gargoyles or more semi-autonomous beings - like Trygons, Alphas and Hive Tyratss to dominate? It will always control the Alpha creatures, they just do the battlefield role better.
Imagine a Hive fleet composed of as many Tyrants as Termagants. That is pure biomass it needs. Hence eating is not the issue - with X biomass it can produce X termies. With x+1 or X + X biomass it can priduce an army of Tyrants.
Evolution: not just feeding/eating.

Nothing strange about being drawn to the Astronomicon.

Light in the warp --> Sentient species
Brighter light = more food.

 Ratius wrote:
Respectfully disagree. If they only want to eat and survive, then the HiveMind is a pretty one dimensional and basic entiity. Fluff contradicts this.
Evolution imo is their key aim. The more biomass they consume the easier it is for them to evolve the likes of semi/pseudo intelligent organism (i.e. Hive creatures).
Does the Hive Mind really want armies of instinctual creatures ala Termies/Hormies/Gargoyles or more semi-autonomous beings - like Trygons, Alphas and Hive Tyratss to dominate? It will always control the Alpha creatures, they just do the battlefield role better.
Imagine a Hive fleet composed of as many Tyrants as Termagants. That is pure biomass it needs. Hence eating is not the issue - with X biomass it can produce X termies. With x+1 or X + X biomass it can priduce an army of Tyrants.
Evolution: not just feeding/eating.

That isn't evolution, that is logistics. Theorically a Hive Fleet already can do that, but it is often unnecessary and an army of Tyrants is just begging for a Cyclone torpedo. The Hivemind prefers X*Y
biomass where the Y is the number of armies. The Hivemind knows that each time it throws something at a planet there is a risk that it would lost said biomass thanks to a Exterminatus or similar, so it must be careful with the amount of biomass it is willing to risk for a planet.

Agreed on your latter point Tyran, the HM must evaluate each engagement. Hence why imho the classic piece of fluff that is always quoted (a splinter fleet of the Nids went around a Necron tomb world *sic*). Always taken as the Nids fearing/fleeing the Necrons.
Not really, the HM just thought it wasnt worth it.

However, logistics inherently = evolution. If the expenditure of X biomass = a return of X-1 that is bad logistics and hence a retardation of the fleet/Nids. The HM evolves THROUGH logistics and logistical analysis. (hence avoiding tough/worthless tomb worlds).

While it throws itself at Imperial Forge Worlds which may not be particularly high in biomass, especially when considering the net-gain (consumption of a world is a gain, Tyranid units blasted into atomic particles by AdMech conversion beamers, Titans and other tech-wizardry is a loss) for taking a Forge World is probably not very high.

 Ratius wrote:
Agreed on your latter point Tyran, the HM must evaluate each engagement. Hence why imho the classic piece of fluff that is always quoted (a splinter fleet of the Nids went around a Necron tomb world *sic*). Always taken as the Nids fearing/fleeing the Necrons.
Not really, the HM just thought it wasnt worth it.

Hey, in the Necron codex it is stated that the Nids wrecked several Tomb Worlds. After reading the Necron Codex I wondered if Ward is a secret Nid fanboy.

However, logistics inherently = evolution. If the expenditure of X biomass = a return of X-1 that is bad logistics and hence a retardation of the fleet/Nids. The HM evolves THROUGH logistics and logistical analysis. (hence avoiding tough/worthless tomb worlds).

It is adaptation, but not in the biological/technological sense. And what drives this adaptation? the Hivemind's need to feed, grow and survive. Tyranids evolution and adaptation, like the creation of new bio-constructs, are a response to the resistance of the prey (the rest of 40k). They don't evolve for the sake of evolving, but for the sake of being better at feeding. If there isn't a prey that meets them with enough resistance, the Tyranids' evolution and adaptation stagnates.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
While it throws itself at Imperial Forge Worlds which may not be particularly high in biomass, especially when considering the net-gain (consumption of a world is a gain, Tyranid units blasted into atomic particles by AdMech conversion beamers, Titans and other tech-wizardry is a loss) for taking a Forge World is probably not very high.

The Tyranids don't only look for biomass, but also for minerals resources, the atmosphere, the water. Also atomic particles are still useful for the Tyranids. Don't see the Tyranids as a predator species, but as a predator ecosystem, and what a ecosystem needs? non-biological resources that can be converted in biomass, and also the Nids have uses to things a normal ecosystem doesn't, like adamantium, that can be found in the Tyranid claws, horns, carapaces and bones.

EDIT: And lets not forget the strategic sense, the Hiveminds knows the purpose of a Forgeworld. And it knows that razing it to the ground is going to cause a lot of problems to the Imperium.

The Tyranids don't only look for biomass, but also for minerals resources, the atmosphere, the water. Also atomic particles are still useful for the Tyranids. Don't see the Tyranids as a predator species, but as a predator ecosystem, and what a ecosystem needs? non-biological resources that can be converted in biomass, and also the Nids have uses to things a normal ecosystem doesn't, like adamantium, that can be found in the Tyranid claws, horns, carapaces and bones.

EDIT: And lets not forget the strategic sense, the Hiveminds knows the purpose of a Forgeworld. And it knows that razing it to the ground is going to cause a lot of problems to the Imperium.

Great point Tyran, fully agreed.

especially when considering the net-gain (consumption of a world is a gain, Tyranid units blasted into atomic particles by AdMech conversion beamers, Titans and other tech-wizardry is a loss)

BioTitans especially adapted to counter that (if needed)? Remember GW havent produced Hydraphants nor Dominatrixes where as they have (rules-wise up to Imperators).
Who knows what the Nids could/would throw VS an AdMech/Titan producing World. Infact, its lucky the Nids dont come across them that often, the potential for adaptation VS Imperators, is simply downright scary.....

Given sufficent Biomass in those fights (legion upon legion upon legion of Skitarri for biomass), I Think Hydraphants and bigger would be abound. Titan War incoming.....

Also, not every tomb world is Barren and devoid of life.

Kronus for example was brimming with life.

 Ratius wrote:

The Tyranids don't only look for biomass, but also for minerals resources, the atmosphere, the water. Also atomic particles are still useful for the Tyranids. Don't see the Tyranids as a predator species, but as a predator ecosystem, and what a ecosystem needs? non-biological resources that can be converted in biomass, and also the Nids have uses to things a normal ecosystem doesn't, like adamantium, that can be found in the Tyranid claws, horns, carapaces and bones.

EDIT: And lets not forget the strategic sense, the Hiveminds knows the purpose of a Forgeworld. And it knows that razing it to the ground is going to cause a lot of problems to the Imperium.

Great point Tyran, fully agreed.

especially when considering the net-gain (consumption of a world is a gain, Tyranid units blasted into atomic particles by AdMech conversion beamers, Titans and other tech-wizardry is a loss)

BioTitans especially adapted to counter that (if needed)? Remember GW havent produced Hydraphants nor Dominatrixes where as they have (rules-wise up to Imperators).
Who knows what the Nids could/would throw VS an AdMech/Titan producing World. Infact, its lucky the Nids dont come across them that often, the potential for adaptation VS Imperators, is simply downright scary.....

Given sufficent Biomass in those fights (legion upon legion upon legion of Skitarri for biomass), I Think Hydraphants and bigger would be abound. Titan War incoming.....

Look at the Battle of Megyre, there the Tyranids spammed a Reaver Titan sized "super Trygon" that proceeded to singlehandedly tear apart a Titan Legion.