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A member got some heat based on his BT list here in Dakka, which he (and I) thought was a balanced list. It had elements for cc and ranged shooting, along with AA in the form of Quad gun. However it was suggested that he should, for a balanced list, have either cc or ranged firepower, not both in the same list.

I've assumed, as a BA player, that a balanced list for me would have some drop pods, deep striking units, maybe bikes/speeders, all supported by devastators, predators and whatnot. Have I been in the wrong?

What is a balanced list in your opinion?

A balanced list doesn't so much have to do with ranged or CC.

Rather you look at the FoC usage and whether you have covered all the bases with anti-: MEQ/TEQ, MECH, horde, and flyers.

If an army has 1-2 HQs, 2 elites, 3-4 troops, 2 FA, and 2 Heavy support (all with an assortment of weapon types - templates, AP1, AP2, skyfire, etc...) then it is probably a balanced list.

That was my understanding also, and I thought he had all the bases covered. He was a bit weak on the anti-flyer, but not terribly so. It also sounded like he should have fielded e.g. 3 preds instead of just one, etc.

Our group does not allow allies (yet), so AA is not that easy to come by for me. Getting two Stormravens is quite expensive, both €'s and points wise. I'll start another thread in the list building about this, though.

We usually play at 1000-1500 points and it is definitely easier for Tau to have a balanced TAC list than Blood Angels.

A "balanced" list is a nebulous concept. But it doesn't have anything to do with using all your force org slots, or whether or not it has a mix of CC and Shooting. A balanced list is capable of competing with as many of the common major threats out there.

You can use the Daemons codex to make a balanced list that has little to no shooting (and maxes fast attack but has no elites), you can do the opposite in the Tau codex with no assault (and maxed elites but little or no fast attack, getting your markers from HS instead).

What is truly balanced changes based on the meta too, and is hard to really nail down.

A balanced list is one that has the killing power (or strategic shenanigans) to be able to handle any target type your opponent might bring. It shouldn't fall apart just because your opponent brings a bunch of AV14, or monstrous creatures, or a horde.

But that's pretty much it. You can have a balanced list that spams just one kind of unit (like deathwing, for example), so long as it's capable of handling anything.

Balanced list - a list that technically can deal with whatever comes for it on the field. nothing to do with what units you take specifically, as long as they can act as a 40k can opener.

GA

What those people probably mean is what I often encounter in matches:
People build 50% melee and 50% shooting, but lack the speed to get into melee fast enough.
In a real game that often results into this:
A shooty army has the benefit of easier targeting: They focus on clearing your melee. That means half your army hasn't even done any damage when they die.
A melee army gets into CC as fast as possible and your ranged hardly have any targets left until it's too late.

I don't know what a balanced list is . But If your DA army is 3 whirlwinds 6minimax with hvy bolters and ally sm with a whirlwind and 2 scout minimax with hvy bolters , when you play against foot orcs, tau and IG , then your list ain't balanced.

So TAC equals balanced, yet we see "balanced TAC lists" mentioned. Are they actually WAAC lists in disguise?

Allying is really a can of worms the way they are implemented. I would never ally my BA with another SM chapter.

I guess my definition of balanced is incorrect.

There aren't any WAAC lists, there are only WAAC players.

Lists generally are accepted as being 'casual/fun', 'semi-competitive/optimized but with a few sub-par or fluffy units', and 'competitive/I'm going to win NOVA with this sucker'. (In very broad strokes, but that's all you can really do when discussing types of lists on the internet where everyone has their own opinions and varying definitions)

Balanced lists, or TAC lists will generally err in the semi-competitive and up scale, and attempt to cover all bases while retaining focus and using more optimal units.

Isn't TAC almost the same as competitive lists?
TAC means you have something against all possible competition, you need the tools to beat each list.

Kangodo wrote:
Isn't TAC almost the same as competitive lists?
TAC means you have something against all possible competition, you need the tools to beat each list.

TAC generally refers to a list that will be used in an attempt to actually win a game. So in general, I'd say yes. Well, the abbreviation is Take-All-Comers, so I guess it'll always be at least semi-competitive.

Kangodo wrote:
Isn't TAC almost the same as competitive lists?
TAC means you have something against all possible competition, you need the tools to beat each list.

Not necessarily. For example, if you know that the metagame is overwhelmingly horde infantry lists (because those lists are best at winning) you might drop most of your anti-tank units for more anti-horde. It would no longer be a TAC list because you'd get tabled against a mech list, but it would be very competitive for that specific tournament.

 Ailaros wrote:
A balanced list is one that has the killing power (or strategic shenanigans) to be able to handle any target type your opponent might bring. It shouldn't fall apart just because your opponent brings a bunch of AV14, or monstrous creatures, or a horde.

I can't believe I'm saying this to an Ailaros post, but this. A balanced list is one that is capable of handling the broadest possible range of matchups and mission types. A list that has a little of everything with no unified plan is just a bad list.

I am not really familiar with the tournament-scene.
But is it that easy to predict what you will be playing against on a tournament?

 Peregrine wrote:


I can't believe I'm saying this to an Ailaros post, but this. A balanced list is one that is capable of handling the broadest possible range of matchups and mission types. A list that has a little of everything with no unified plan is just a bad list.

Mother of God...

Peregrine and Ailaros agree?

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:


I can't believe I'm saying this to an Ailaros post, but this. A balanced list is one that is capable of handling the broadest possible range of matchups and mission types. A list that has a little of everything with no unified plan is just a bad list.

Mother of God...

Peregrine and Ailaros agree?

Everyone out of the universe quick!

Kangodo wrote:
I am not really familiar with the tournament-scene.
But is it that easy to predict what you will be playing against on a tournament?

It used to be.

Marines. Always. Often the same list several times in the same tournament.

These days, less so. You have to plan to be able to handle or adapt to any army.

Naw wrote:So TAC equals balanced, yet we see "balanced TAC lists" mentioned. Are they actually WAAC lists in disguise?

Part of the problem is that there are two definitions of balanced. TAC lists are balanced because they have a balance of killing power, which is required to be able to actually take on all comers.

Some people, though, think that balanced is a reference to bringing several different types of units in your list. In that case, "balanced" is merely a synonym for "unfocused", which is a synonym for "bad".

When you see a "TAC list", think "balanced" and when you see a "balanced TAC list", think "poorly thought out and disorganized".