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Crisis Commander : Target lock, Drone controller, x2 M Pods, x2 Marker Drones, Talisman of Moloch
Crisis Commander: Target lock, Drone controller, x2 M Pods, x2 Marker Drones

x1 Riptide: IA, TL Fusion, Stim Injector, EWO
x1 Riptide: IA, TL Fusion, EWO

x1 Riptide: EWO, VT, ECPA, HBC, SMS

x1 Crisis: TL FB, BKR
x1 Crisis: TL FB, BKR
x1 Crisis: TL FB, BKR

x3 Crisis: x3 TL MP, BKR
x3 Crisis: x3 TL MP, BKR
x3 Crisis: x3 TL MP, BKR

x5 Marker Drones (run with Co.)
x5 Marker Drones (run with Co. 2)

x1 B-side: HYMP, EWO, BKR
x1 B-side: HYMP, EWO, BKR
x1 B-side: HYMP, EWO, BKR

Total: 1848

I play against tournament lists.

Vs Tau gun line: so the idea here is to hover cagily around 40" away with the MP crisis+ MLs, moving back into 36" each shooting phase. Tides pick priority targets; fusion crisis suicide into things.

Vs Wave Serpent Spam: get tabled gracefully; sell lives dearly.

Vs Necron Air: Cackle and table them with no grace at all.

Vs Cron Wraithwing: Tough matchup. Marker light one unit at a time, pie plate with ion accelerators, tactically sacrifice crisis. Use fusion as hidey obj. holders.

Vs Flying Circus: ML dirtiest DPs, take down with tides. Bsides take down another. Tactically sacrifice crisis.

Vs FarSun Bomb: remove cover save with ML, up BS on tides to 5; ID pie plate+ HBC + Bsides + crisis volume should kill bomb T1.

Thoughts? I think it's pretty good...

I like it. It will struggle against hordes though, and I can see things like nid tervi-spam ruining your day
Very much a RPS match up IMO, but should do well.

Yeah, some burst cannons would help there but unfortunately the range would screw me against more common power lists. FWs would help too but I prefer the all-suit stuff.

List looks real mean, personally not a huge fan of twin fusion monats but I am a strong supporter of high BS single marker squads, I instead usually do a deathrain squad with marker drones/ target locks and a deathrain commander, larger footprint, but toughens the squad and reduces KP. 3 riptides is nasty, and will make people VERY angry with you, but you are in a competitive environment which means if they cry, you are doing it right.

Had disappointing results with longstrike, was good, but very pricey.

Mean list, would not be a fun matchup for most armies

Missile drones shooting at BS2 is kind of crappy. I'd probably drop them and use the points for something else, or put a drone controller on the Bsides

You'll have about 5-7 marker lights on any one unit, but that probably wont be enough to cover the Riptide tax for your two IA riptides. You might want to think of more marker lights. In general, an IA riptide also has a tax of 4-5 marker lights if you plan to use the pie plate heavily and want it to be effective.

Drone controller doesnt effect missile drones, so likely you should take them en masse or not at all.

I agree with the second comment of Anon, a second commander and second marker group seems Ideal for this list.

Exaltation for wveryone! The only way to fit in another Mark'o and drones would be no missile drone and no Longstrike....worth it?

 gameandwatch wrote:
Drone controller doesnt effect missile drones, so likely you should take them en masse or not at all.

I agree with the second comment of Anon, a second commander and second marker group seems Ideal for this list.

You're right, i forgot about that. I wish the rules were more clear on things like this.

The text on pg 68 clarifies what drone controller does, although you could argue that GWs "forgot" to add missile drones. Editing mistakes happen A LOT with this company (Cough FARSIGHT CODEX Cough).

The errata doesn't say anything about drone controllers and missile drones either. I use the reference page (pg 104) heavily and that description of drone controller doesn't mention the restriction.

I assume it is intended that missile drones do not get to use drone controller because if they could that would mean 6 missile drones with a drone controller would be a cheaper buy than 3 crisis suits with 2 non TL MP each. Same amount of dakka, but for half the cost.

I'm not arguing here, i'm just pointing out that i wish the codex was more clear on things like this. -.-

Oh for sure Anon, the list is misswritten all over the place, case and point burst cannons on hammerheads.............

Id say yes Shrike, as i said, longstrike is very expensive and can be a relatively huge point sink for fairly limited application. Id say drop him, and missile drones are worthless in my eyes, if they were twin linked, different story, but alas non twin-linked BS2 is terribad.

Second marko and drones also gives you multiple light saturation and increases the likelyness that all three tides will be boosted. It also ensures that the wont single bomb your one commander and unit, get 2 VP, slay the warlord and your only source of lights.

 The Shrike wrote:
Exaltation for wveryone! The only way to fit in another Mark'o and drones would be no missile drone and no Longstrike....worth it?

Why not drop the drones and get a 6 man pathfinder squad. They hit on 4's that's an average of 3 marker lights per turn or so. It'll cost the same in points and you can keep longstrike!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What do you mean? I thought burst cannons were always an option on HHs.

Drones are more mobile, more survivable, BS 5 and ablative wounds for my warlord.

Also, list edited. I fit in the second Mark'o + drones and had enough left over to give FNP to one of the IA rip's.

If I didn't do that and dropped Talisman I would have 62 points to screw around with. Thoughts? I do think the talisman could be boss vs. flying circus, Jetbike seer council and Nids.

No I mean when you look at burst cannons...and SMS.... they are the same cost, except one is longer ranged, ignores cover, doesnt require line of sight, and both are twin linked with 4 shots S5 AP5... that is just dumb writing.

I use the talisman and I will never go again without it. I basically shuts down flying circus completely, I have had games where they were unable to fire with everything for 3 straight turns.

It also shuts down the annoying enfeebles from nids so def a wise purchase.

Crisis Commander : Target lock, Drone controller, x2 M Pods, x2 Marker Drones, Talisman of Moloch
Crisis Commander: Target lock, Drone controller, x2 M Pods, x2 Marker Drones

x1 Riptide: IA, TL Fusion, EWO, VT
x1 Riptide: IA, TL Fusion, EWO, VT

x1 Riptide: EWO, VT, ECPA, HBC, TL SMS

x1 Crisis: TL FB, Advanced Targeting Sys., BKR
x1 Crisis: x2 Burst Cannons, BKR
x1 Crisis: x2 Burst Cannons, BKR

x3 Crisis: x3 TL MP, EWO, BKR
x3 Crisis: x3 TL MP, EWO, BKR
x3 Crisis: x3 TL MP, EWO, BKR

x4 Marker Drones (run with Co.)
x4 Marker Drones (run with Co. 2)

Railhead: Longstrike, D pods, submunition, TL SMS- 190

Total: 1850

Alternate list. I think I actually like this one better. It requires a bit of explanation. I'm going to Nova next month. 1/3 of missions are Vanguard deployment, which often renders Broadsides ineffective. Also, 3 Broadsides with no drones aren't very survivable. Yes, they're good AA, but I've mitigated that below.

All riptides now have Skyfire and Interceptor. So, The fusion is an 18" F-U bubble and the Ion Accelerators are still decent; S7 AP2 Heavy 3 with 60" range. Also, the Missile Pod Crisis now all have EWO. Even without skyfire, that's 18 S7 shots twin-linked, so 5.5 should hit...

Now, to the railhead. Longstrike, despite piloting my only vehicle (normally a no-no) has 72" range, BS5, Tankhunter, PE: IG (situationally useful, but useful nonetheless) and +1 to his cover save. So he can lurk in the back and provide anti-Av14, anti-horde if there's all infantry lists with submunition, he can ID non-Iron-armed Daemon princes (no small bonus), and with markerlight support, he can pwn fliers too.

I think my AA is actually stronger in this list. I gave up a little volume of fire (but added 2 x2 BC suits to help), and 2 markerlights for more AA and something I think will prove more useful: stone-cold reliable long range S10 AP1 anti-armor. Remember, that's an explodes result on a 4+, and I'm rerolling my to-penetrate roll...so I'm getting a roll on that friggin table!

Thoughts?

 gameandwatch wrote:
No I mean when you look at burst cannons...and SMS.... they are the same cost, except one is longer ranged, ignores cover, doesnt require line of sight, and both are twin linked with 4 shots S5 AP5... that is just dumb writing.

I use the talisman and I will never go again without it. I basically shuts down flying circus completely, I have had games where they were unable to fire with everything for 3 straight turns.

It also shuts down the annoying enfeebles from nids so def a wise purchase.

Oh yea, and the BC was nerfed too i think. It use to be separate guns. GG GW.

So you feel the talisman is auto include for most TAC lists, in your experience? I haven't played many games against psyker armies so i have no idea what to expect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You have an ass ton of missiles lol. Can't really go wrong with missiles though! Going against 3+ models might be weird, but that should be covered with the IA-tides, and they now have proper marker support, so they should be absolutely devastating.

My only concern is that you might be putting a lot of pressure on your tides to do a lot of work. They are your only reliable MEQ and flier killer. They're also your back up anti heavy armor if your HH blows up, and your FB suits fail to come in.. Expect them to draw a lot of hate.

Otherwise, solid list. If i was running trip-tides as Enclave, i'd probably make something similar. Although i really want to do an O'Vesa / SSuit list.

Played a match against DP Space Wolves. The Talisman was very effective in denying JAWW.

Yeah I'm definitely keeping the Talisman. Two much psychic power in lists these days not to.

Any thoughts on my alternate list?

I run a similiar list but with a few changes:

- Run one Mark'O with 10 ML drones. I do this so I can focus on what I want eliminated and not get distracted. That's just me.

- I use a Bastion to completely eliminate LOS for Mark 'O and hide the Broadsides in them. Mark'O does survive quite often with all his drones.

On your list:

- I think 2 Mark'O is too much of an investment. I understand you want more priority targets, but hear me out. Your suits are all twin linked and don't require ML support. If your Riptides intercepted the turn before they will not be shooting.

- Suits without drones are Marines with 2 wounds and die way too easily. Get them drones or an upgrade.

-Not enough Dakka. Firewarriors serve a purpose in a farsight army. Riptides are not enough to bring down marines.

Lastly, I will leave you this. My setup includes Eldar Allies with a WraithKnight and 2 Riptides. My opponent with the Spacewolves had 3 rune priests. Even with the Talisman I was only able to deny it 60% of the time. The last one he got off was able to get my riptide.

Exalted!

So, something like this?:

Crisis Commander : Target lock, Drone controller, x2 M Pods, x2 Marker Drones, Talisman of Moloch

x1 Riptide: IA, TL Fusion, EWO, VT
x1 Riptide: IA, TL Fusion, EWO, VT

x1 Riptide: EWO, VT, ECPA, HBC, TL SMS

x12 Firwarriors: BKR
x12 Firwarriors: BKR

x1 Crisis: TL FB, BKR

x3 Crisis: x3 TL MP, EWO, BKR
x3 Crisis: x3 TL MP, EWO, BKR
x3 Crisis: x3 TL MP, EWO, BKR

x8 Marker Drones (run with Co.)

Railhead: Longstrike, D pods, submunition, TL SMS- 190

Total: 1849

looks good. Try and fit a Fireblade. With 12 FW its 36 shots at 15" when stationary. A killer.

One last suggestion, I have run the HBC on the ECPA. Here's the conundrum. With 36" range and needing to Nova for the 12 shots and rending, puts him in harms way with only the 5++. I've never effectively made him work and swore off the loadout completely. ECPA is best used to for the shields or extreme jump jets.

Hmm; is the fireblade worth these cuts?:

Crisis Commander : Target lock, Drone controller, x2 M Pods, x2 Marker Drones
Cadre Fireblade


x1 Riptide: IA, TL Fusion, EWO, VT
x1 Riptide: IA, TL Fusion, EWO, VT

x1 Riptide: EWO, VT, ECPA, HBC, TL SMS, Talisman of Moloch

x12 Firwarriors: BKR
x12 Firwarriors: BKR

x3 Crisis: x3 TL MP, EWO, BKR
x3 Crisis: x3 TL MP, EWO, BKR
x3 Crisis: x3 TL MP, EWO, BKR

x7 Marker Drones (run with Co.)

Railhead: Longstrike, D pods, TL SMS

Total: 1847 ( throw ATS on a crisis for 1850 even)

Also, I threw the ToM on the HBC rip instead of the Mark'o. I figure the riptide is likelier to be hanging out in board center being a boss and projecting a 36" F-U to fliers and reserves; thoughts?

No, I like the lone wolf FB too much. Also never put the talisman on a Riptide. You waste the 5++.

Fair enough; I'll keep it on the Mark'o.....isn't positioning of the 4D6 DTW more important than the invul tho? Especially considering the Mark'o has a bunch of ablative wounds?

Good Point. You gain a few more inches. I just hate waste

Yeah I mean a battle cannon could ruin my day but its still a only a 5++ and that's what careful JSJ is for.

I personally thing your second list is likely close to the best, but I still feel you dont need longstrike and would be better off with 2 b-sides and I will tell you why.

Longstrike more often than not will either be a 1 hit wonder, and if he is hunting av 14 even with the reroll pen, he still fails to pen far too often, and he is like 195 points... that is almost monolith cost and for a 13 12 10 vehicle, I dont like sinking soo many points into him.

The broadsides provide not only some nice medium range anti flyer/ light tank, but they also have 2 SMS, can fire both their weapons and are a great source of anti horde.

As per the talisman, can the riptide even take it? It isn't a character, it is just a monstrous creature, I dont have the dex with me but I dont think they can take signature systems other than the enclaves earth caste thingy, since it specifically says they can take it.

I think the more you draw away from enclaves the less effective your list becomes,

Ah, so the edited version up top?

I feel you on long strike. I normally preach all or nothing on vehicles. I just think the Bsides might die before they can actually do anything; being such high target priority and its not like I'm taking a bunch to mitigate that. Longstrike can hide behind a building and the. Zoom on top of it on my turn. (These are strategies concerning me going 2nd)

If I hide the Bsides; they're not relentless so will be snap shooting next turn. And in 1/3 of Nova missions, it's Vanguard deployment. So assuming they lived to T4; they'll probably be snap shooting until then getting in range against any non-assault army (most if them).

Thanks for the advice; rebuttal?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, what are people thoughts on allying in my Eldar?

Crisis Commander : Target lock, Drone controller, x2 M Pods, x2 Marker Drones

x1 Riptide: IA, TL Fusion, EW, VT
x1 Riptide: IA, TL Fusion, EWO, VT

x1 Riptide: EWO, VT, ECPA, HBC, SMS, Talisman of Moloch

x1 Crisis: x2 FB, BKR

x3 Crisis: x6 MP, BKR
x3 Crisis: x3 TL MP, BKR
x3 Crisis: x3 TL MP, BKR

x5 Marker Drones (run with Co.)

Eldar Detachment

Farseer: Jetbike

x3 Windrider Jetbikes
x3 Windrider Jetbikes

Wraithknight: x2 HWC, scatterlaser

1849

ICs can attach to a non-droned Riptide @ nova...Farseer an ride with him be T6... Wraithknight gives me board control and counter assault. Jetbikes give me cagey scoring/line breaker....

Thoughts?

I mean, taudar is one of the best builds in the game right now, I am not one who thinks the ally rules are a good idea, I think it should be a single dex per army game, but that is just me.

As far if you were to take that list, I would lose all the bonus stuff on the wraithknight. Not only do you have plenty of things to deal with marine-esque blobs (tides, ahem) but the stock wraithknight is by far the best option for him. The shield is wholly unnessesary on him since, he is a jump monstrous creature, and therefore has move through cover, ther is no reason why you shouldnt just jump him from area terrain to area terrain since he has no fear of dangerous terrain tests.

This also fills the role of longstrike, with 2 S10 wraithcannons, that can be twin linked with the farseer.

Once again I dont think the riptide can take the talisman, because he is not a character. He doesnt have access to signature systems (as far as I can remember) except the enclaves specific earth caste one.

Per the B-side argument, B-sides still have 36" range, which means with vanguard, after one turn of move and/or run, they will have a threat radius of pretty much the entire board, which, if you use your tides right, you can force people into entering their space.

As per your standard crisis list (and per the edited one I approve of) double missile launchers are preferable to twin linking them, if you can afford the points, as their volume of fire is amazing and they take far better advantage of marker lights. 6 twin linked shots vs 12 non, 12 non on average hits equal to the max number of shots the twin linked ones can produce.

Thanks. List edited; I met you halfway; left the scatter laser on there so e can TL himself if riptides need to be guided/prescienced instead. My Markerlights will die quickly and I need to rely on them I remove cover.

As for bsides, you've recouped their image for me, but they don't really fit my mobile theme.

As for the ToM on riptides; it doesn't say model with battle suit only. Just 1 per army.

No, but it is a special issue system, and special issue systems may only be taken by characters in the tau army. The Riptide is not a character and therefore cannot take special issue systems.

Thanks! It'll go back on Mark'o.