Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm thinking of running a c'tan shard with pyreshards and gaze of death in a 1000 point game.
it feels like it could run really well in a low point game but it also feels like a point sink. Any suggestions or better ideas?

Having played against them in 1k lists, they are not all that tough, but work very well as a fire magnet. With only a 4++, they will fall rather easily to mass dakka or any decent amount of AT fire. If your running some of the spiders they work well for more MC saturation, but otherwise your looking at a fire magnet to keep pressure off the rest of your army.

Since they will rarely make it to combat, you want em cheap and shooty, cheap being the priority. Pyreshards and lord of fire fits the bill pretty well, but swarms of spirit dust is also nice(and may help your Ctan make it)

The gaze is nice if it works, but its rare to get to assault and for the price you could put a spider on the table.

I would mention that a C'tan shard would probably do very well with that build in a Zone Mortalis game, since the corridors will stop the enemy from getting sustained meaningful shooting against it until it's too late, if all goes as planned. You'll tear away any bulkhead in your path, and if you hunt down the right units, that Gaze of Death will chew through DE or IG like there's no tomorrow.

I use my c'tan with a deep striking monolith

DOOMONYOU wrote:
I use my c'tan with a deep striking monolith

You actually use both a C'tan and a Monolith in a 1000-point list!?

Then he follows up with a basic lord and 10 man warrior squads, because getting tabled in 1 turn is awesome.

destroyer lord, MSS, res orb, semi

5 triarch praetorians

5 warriors
5 warriors

Monolith

Shard with gaze and Td thunderbolt

1000 on the dot.

Hide the warriors, shard and lord/praetorians assault, monolith lays down covering fire.

It works with the local Meta.

because getting tabled in 1 turn is awesome.

Don't knock it till you try it!

If this list is actually effective against anything, I am deeply disappointed in your local meta...

It's an elite style army that has multiple units that you don't want anywhere near you. The monolith provides cover, total line of sight blocking, or transport ability, and is also hard to deal with aside from melta. Everyone is down on Praetorians, but when they're lead by a res-orb holding, war-scythe wielding D-Lord with MSS and a 2+ save, you do not want that unit anywhere near you. If the answer to the C'tan is weight of fire, then the D-Lord and his unit is into your lines.

It's a list that will work on the table....just never on a forum.

8 wounds isn't hard to take care of. This list wouldn't work on a forum, a table (a table with any amount of skill on it), or in my deepest dreams.

Run 3 shards for proper saturation.

herpguy wrote:
8 wounds isn't hard to take care of. This list wouldn't work on a forum, a table (a table with any amount of skill on it), or in my deepest dreams.

As I said, no one on a forum is going to agree, but 8 T5 wounds with 4+ reanimation protocol and a 2+ tank in the front isn't EASY to deal with. Also, if you're spending your turn dealing with them, it means your not dealing with the C'Tan. Seeing as how most 1000pt games I play are done on 4x4 tables, one of the 2 units you don't want near you are going to hit home.

As a side note, I didn't say it was the best list in the world, but I'm sure that it could turn your deepest dream into a nightmare...

I believe at 1000 pts I can have atleast 18 lascannons on the table. That should sink a monolith and shard turn 1. Now your missing half your army.

By what math?

Monoliths have 4 HP, right? I'll assume you're talking BS4 Lascannons. I will assume you get first turn, so the Monolith doesn't get a Jink save, and that it doesn't have any cover. 18 shots is 12 hits. It would take all of those hits to expect to kill the Monolith by Hull Points, and you'd get 2 penetrations on average, so you'll probably need all 18 shots to kill the Monolith that way too.

As for the C'tan, it takes 8 wounds to kill it, and 18 BS4 shots will do 10. (3 to hit, 2 to wound)

So you can probably kill one or the other in one turn.

I'm not saying the guys' idea is great, but do the math before you make claims.

Factor in night fighting and cover too

Praetorians are jump infantry, they can stay out of Los to lascannons then jump and assault them.

What else have you got in your 18 lascannon list?

Where this list fails is flyers, which usually gets ignored or snap shot at with gauss flux arcs.

Monoliths can't jink btw. Heavy vehicles are not allowed a jink save.

 MrEconomics wrote:
By what math?

Monoliths have 4 HP, right? I'll assume you're talking BS4 Lascannons. I will assume you get first turn, so the Monolith doesn't get a Jink save, and that it doesn't have any cover. 18 shots is 12 hits. It would take all of those hits to expect to kill the Monolith by Hull Points, and you'd get 2 penetrations on average, so you'll probably need all 18 shots to kill the Monolith that way too.

As for the C'tan, it takes 8 wounds to kill it, and 18 BS4 shots will do 10. (3 to hit, 2 to wound)

So you can probably kill one or the other in one turn.

I'm not saying the guys' idea is great, but do the math before you make claims.

Monoliths cant jink.

DOOMONYOU wrote:
destroyer lord, MSS, res orb, semi

5 triarch praetorians

5 warriors
5 warriors

Monolith

Shard with gaze and Td thunderbolt

1000 on the dot.

Hide the warriors, shard and lord/praetorians assault, monolith lays down covering fire.

It works with the local Meta.

because getting tabled in 1 turn is awesome.

Don't knock it till you try it!

Edit: stupid iCrap-phone posting before I get to write ...

Back to topic, if I ever get Praetorians I think I will try this list! I'm sold!

One thing ive noticed is that no matter what you say your list idea is someone will say o but if i field this then your screw. I think you know your local meta and you try different tactics. Altough a shard in a 1000 point game is a very hard sell. Your whole tactic will prob be getting him in to do something before he gets pasted. Personally i think 20 warriors hit harder, last longer and they score.

Im struggling myself to fit one into a 1500 point game as i really want to try one. Put all that aside tho as you cant see how good one performs until you try it out because win or lose you will have learnt for your next game.

When they get into melee they are deadly. Because they are characters you can challenge, eliminating alot of strikes against them, then gaze could kill a few, WS 5 and T 7 stomp over all space marines, even power fist equipped terminators.

I find my shard pays his points back nicely, he pops a vehicle 1st and 2nd turn, charges the passengers of the 2nd vehicle 2nd turn i they are in range.

I've had someone deepstrike terminators to deal with him and hes mopped them up nicely.

But always try before you buy. Your local meta might be packing expert monster hunters