Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I really struggle making lists at low point games.
The less resources I have to deal with, the harder it is for me to make something that works.

Trying to wrap my head around Killteams is just turning into an exercise in frustration.
No HQ?
No Heavies?
No Forge World models?
No 4+ wound MCs?
No fliers?
Only ONE Fast Attack?
Jeez, it's like this game type was designed specifically to screw the 'Crons!

Have any Necron players had any success with Killteam armies yet?
The only things I can think of are-

• 5 Destroyers

• 5 Wraiths (5x Casters OR 3x Casters, 1x Whipcoil)

• 3 Destroyers
• 6 Flayed Ones

• 3 Wraiths (1x Whipcoils)
• 5 Immortals

• 5 Warriors
• 9 Scarabs

• 6 Immortals
• 6 Scarabs

• 5 Deathmarks
• 5 Tesla Tomb Blades

• 1 Heat Ray Triarch Stalker
• 3 Scarabs / 2 Tomb Blades

• 4 Tomb Blades (Tesla, Shields/Shadow)
• 6 Warriors / Flayed Ones

• 5 Warriors
• 1 Ghost Ark
• 1 Tomb Blade

• 3 Scarabs
• 5 Immortals
• 5 Warriors

• 8 Deathmarks
• 3 Scarabs

Which of these might have the best chances in a 200 point Killteam game?

The triarch stalker would be extremely difficult to deal with.

That list has potential

The good thing with that is, it's multipurpose, with both a bit of range, and a template, so would be a bit versatile... problem is, if anyone brings a counter to AV, that's a massive point sink gone, leaving me with just 3 Scarabs.
Maybe there's something better to invest 45 points in? (the restrictions say you have to have three models minimum. Surely that's not restricted to only three INFANTRY models, right? Being the case, maybe 1 Stalker and 2 Tomb Blades might be okay?)

I thought Necrons could just take like, 5 Wraiths, and be unstoppable?

 Dakkamite wrote:
I thought Necrons could just take like, 5 Wraiths, and be unstoppable?

That would be completely devoid of shooting, unless you spent the remaining points split between Particle Casters and Whipcoils (and even then, only 3 to 5 pistols? Against the kinds of shooting Tau/Eldar/IG/SM/etc. could bring at that point level? Something like one mob of Boyz would use their VoF to completely neuter 5 Wraiths in a single shooting phase, not to mention trying to catch Eldar jet bikes, or dealing with DE Venoms).

Something tells me one would need a bit more diversity if one expects to be able to hold ones own in a Killteam setting...

I'll add it to the list, though, for completion's sake.

I've used a mob of Boyz in Kill Team, and it was very unpleasant because of having to roll twenty sets of difficult terrain or run moves. Given that it wasn't any better than any lower count option I don't expect you'll run into it often

Is there a model count restriction? The more models the merrier in Kill team to have a higher rout threshold. Just loading up on the cheapest dorks will help you avoid exiting the game early and force any applicable saves/high wound guys.

Restrictions are:
• 200 points limit
• Must contain at least 3 models
• No Forge World, Apocalypse, Cities Of Death, etc. units
• No Allies
• No Fortifications
• No HQ
• No Heavy Support
• No Fliers
• No models with more than 3 wounds
• 0-2 Troop choices
• 0-1 Elite choices
• 0-1 Fast Attack Choices
• Minimums still apply (eg. you can't just take 3 Warriors. If the codex says the minimum for a unit is 5 models, then that's the lowest you can take).

Can promote one non-vehicle model to "leader" and three other models to "specialist", which gives them certain bonuses.

Armor is largely useless in KT. Almost everyone takes at least one ranged weapon and gives it armorbane. That makes even a an autocannon a legitimate threat to AV13. If you want to field a vehicle, you need 48" threat range between movement and shooting.

The other problem is that hordes naturally do better in KT simply due to the spread out nature. Orks with lootaz are generally considered king since they can shoot the whole map and can spread out between all the pieces of cover. Either that or DE with their stupid Venom with fleshbane that can wipe most of an army in a single turn.

I would take the 5 destroyers as my list for crons. Armorbane, shrouded, and fleshbane. Armorbane vs vehicles, fleshbane vs TWC and some of the other T5 models you see. Not the most survivable, but with 15 shots you can distribute between all their units to maximize casualties while maintaining range.

Yeah, 15 Warriors/Flayed Ones won't exactly instill a lot of fear in anyone, so Necrons hardly have the means to pull off a mob to the same effect.

Too bad there's no way to get 10 Scarab Swarms in a list. With their speed, and the amount of wounds they've got, I have a feeling the little buggers have potential (well, technically you can put 10 in a list, but you wouldn't be able to fit anything else, as all the other units 50 points or less are contending for the same Fast Attack slot with them... though I guess 9 Scarabs and 5 Warriors might work to a lesser degree).

 zephoid wrote:
Armor is largely useless in KT. Almost everyone takes at least one ranged weapon and gives it armorbane. That makes even a an autocannon a legitimate threat to AV13. If you want to field a vehicle, you need 48" threat range between movement and shooting.

This is illegal. The model gains armourbane, not the weapon. This was clarified in the FAQ and is the same for fleshbane etc. If it wasn't, you'd see nonsense like fleshbane Ghost Arks and armourbane lances. That makes armour incredibly strong in Kill Team, and a Stalker is enough to ruin most people's day, especially run with something like Tomb Blades.

Via the KT FAQ

Q. Can I take the special rules that are weapon specific, such as
Melta, Torrent or Master
-
crafted?
A.
Yes, but they must be allocated to one specific weapon on your
specialist. Simply write this on your army list when you hand it
in, and your record card on the day.



Armorbane, fleshbane, and melta are all weapon-specific rules. Im not sure of any character who has any of those rules default

I'd also suggest using the rule (from one of the killzone FAQ suppliments) that all necron models with reanimation protocols count as having everliving as well. Smooths things out a bit.

Also, wraiths are awesome. I'd tend to give one Eternal Warrior to tank pretty much everything, and the other ones combat buffs like FNP and Crusader.

Small force with a low model count, but they simply will. not. die.

Eyjio wrote:
a Stalker is enough to ruin most people's day, especially run with something like Tomb Blades.

The only issue I could see with the 1 Stalker + 2 Tomb Blade combo would be that you lose out on getting a third Specialist (assuming the Stalker can not be a Specialist because it is a vehicle... though, it CAN be the Leader, right?) [edit]: never mind, I got it backwards.

 zephoid wrote:
Via the KT FAQ

Q. Can I take the special rules that are weapon specific, such as
Melta, Torrent or Master-crafted?
A. Yes, but they must be allocated to one specific weapon on your
specialist. Simply write this on your army list when you hand it
in, and your record card on the day.

Interesting. Does torrent work if given to a weapon that doesn't normally use a template?
If so, my Heavy Destroyer is about to get the upgrade he's always dreamed of...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait a minute...

Adamateum Will, Armourbane, Blind, Counter Attack, Crusader, Eternal Warrior, Fear, Fearless, Feel No Pain, Fleet, Fleshbane, Furious Charge, Hammer of Wrath, Hatred, Hit and Run, It Will Not Die, Monster Hunter, Move Through Cover, Night Vision, Preferred Enemy (Everything!), Rage, Rampage, Relentless, Shred, Shrouded, Skilled Rider, Stealth, Strikedown, Stubborn, Tank Hunters

Torrent isn't even on that list!
Neither are Melta and Master-crafted!
What exactly is this FAQ talking about? When do you ever get the opportunity to give a specialist these rules?

Earlier versions of kill-teams allowed you to take any USR that was in the book. even weird stuff like Psyker and Torrent. Newer versions have amended that to a specific list. Ask your TO which version of the rules you are using before building your list.

so could I take a Riptide???

We're using the latest one (found on GW's actual site for an official Killteam tourney... though, I don't have the link on me, just the pdf), so it looks like it's limited to just the ones I copy/pasted.
... my poor Heavy Destroyer. He had built his hopes up so high. This is going to crush him.
D:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eldar Man wrote:
so could I take a Riptide???

Depends.
Is a Riptide:
• less than 200 points?
• not a Heavy Support choice?
• less than 4 wounds?
If so, then yes, I think you might be able to take a Riptide.
...
though, everyone is going to struggle against that.
(perhaps I should consider bumping up the model count on my Deathmarks in anticipation of just such an eventuality...)

riptide are 5 wounds

Well then, no worries there.


Actually, are there any MCs (that are neither HQ nor Heavy) that have 3 wounds or less?

Tyranids may have some, but I can't think of any in the necron codex.

Doesn't really matter, since our MC's are over 200 points.
I should really make a 'Kill Team' Force Type for Battlescribe

Ooh, wouldn't 10 Deathmarks be fun? Or 15 warriors?

Edit: Could you perhaps give me a link to the latest Kill Team-rules?
I have found at least 6 PDF's and all have different rules.

Last time I played Kill Team, it was 400 pts, 0-1 HQ, min. 1 Troop, max AV 12 etc...unless I mix sth. up here.

when I did a kill team i used 3 scarabs 5 warriors 5 immortals. did really well

www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=26200004a

This is the one we're going to be using (PDF with rules and update found further down the page).
Yeah, it's taken from the rules for an event, but as far as I can tell, it's the most up to date rules set for it (and found on GW's on site for free, none the less).

rothrich wrote:
when I did a kill team i used 3 scarabs 5 warriors 5 immortals. did really well

huh, not bad. Pretty simple and straight forward, but should get the job done.

Just by way of wondering, what are the most common builds for other armies taken to Killteam games?
(Just so I know what kind of things I might be up against)

• 4 Tomb Blades (Tesla, Shields/Shadow)
• 6 Warriors / Flayed Ones

Aren't that 3 Tomb Blades? Because you'd be going over the 200 points.

And on that question: No idea, all Kill team-threads I have seen were about the great Necron

Kangodo wrote:

• 4 Tomb Blades (Tesla, Shields/Shadow)
• 6 Warriors / Flayed Ones

Aren't that 3 Tomb Blades? Because you'd be going over the 200 points.

And on that question: No idea, all Kill team-threads I have seen were about the great Necron

Sorry, should have been more clear: that's Shields SLASH Shadow, as in Shield Vanes OR Shadowlooms. Not both.
Sorry for the confusion.

And damn. I was kinda hoping to get an idea of what I might likely be seeing... but it looks like I've just gotta try something safe and basic and hope for the best.