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Hq
Farseer - 115
-jetbike
Farseer - 115
-Jetbike

Troops
9 Dire Avengers - 160
-Exarch
-Shimmershield/Power Weapon

9 Dire Avengers - 160
-Exarch
-Shimmershield/Power Weapon

20 Guardians 220
-2 BL

3 Jetbikes- 61
-Cannon

3 Jetbikes -61
-Cannon

Fast Attack
9 Warp Spiders - 190

Crimson Hunter - 160

Crimson Hunter - 160

Heavy
3 Shadow Weavers- 90

3 Shadow Weavers - 90

Wraithknight -240

Fort.
ADL-70
Comms. relay

1847

What do you guys think? competitive enough?

The list strategy seems kind of fragmented. Jet bikes, hunters, warp spiders are all very mobile. Shadow weavers, and foot troops are very slow.

The jetbikes play the reserve game. That is partly why I have the comms relay. The Crimson Hunters are almost strictly for AA. but can also go vehicle/MC hunting working as a pair. The spiders are the odd unit out, but with their mobility I figured they can go in and out of my lines efficiently enough. I like the list, because it seems to have an answer to almost anything, with the exception to mass Flying MCs. Anyone see some glaring problems?

Take at least 1 Wave serpent in every army.

 FeindusMaximus wrote:
Take at least 1 Wave serpent in every army.

Bad idea, when he has no other vehicles taking just a single one is suicide as every las cannon your opponent took to deal with many vehicles only has 1 target. That target will crash and Burn. My question is that if your Jetbikes play the reserve game, where are your Farseers going to go? My suggestion would be to drop a farseer and exchange it for a spiritseer. He can go with your guardians who im guessing are behind the ADL and give them shrouded on that tasty 4+ cover save they already have for a 2+ cover save. This would also give you 45pts to spare with which you could give your remaining farseer mantle of the laughting god + a singing spear for an unkillable warlord for everyone but tau. I take it your farseer will be getting guide and prescience + 1 for good luck to get twin linked on your weapons. My problem is that 2 farseers riding on there own are just begging to be missile sniped, and that's not a good thing for your warlord. I am also of the opinion you could lose one of your dire avenger squads because you aren't lacking in the objective taking department. With those points you could add a wraithlord to babysit defense line from deepstrikers with 2 BL and 2 flamers. You are lacking early game Anti tank a bit and this guy would help with the transport popping, and no unit wants to deepstrike within 15 inches of this guy, keeping your guardians safe. Just my thoughts.

Hey guys. Thanks for the responses and love hearing your opinions. While serpents are good, I'd say 3 is the minimum if you are taking them. My farseers will be with the shadow weavers to gain their T7 and be relatively safe behind 12 other wounds. I might try a spiritseer, but I'm really not convinced they are good. I like using the other non warlord Farseer as a late game contester. I loved the mantle when the book first came out, but found that Tau are everywhere in the tourney scene so I have dropped that upgrade. I could be open to dropping a squad of dire avengers, but I can't do a wraithlord unless I am trying to drop the wraith knight which I think the wraith knight is better. I love wraith lords but only in multiples. You are right that I am lacking anti-armor. Any thoughts on what FOC slot that hasn't been used could provide it?

Hm, never would of thought of putting your farseers in your artillery, nice idea. My thoughts behind the spirit seer are giving guardians a 2+ cover behind an ADL, but if you like farseers better that's a preference choice. I would still drop a dire avenger squad if only to bulk out the rest of the army. Such as having exarchs in the crimson hunters to make them less reliant on psyker support to make them hit and putting a warlock with conceal in the guardian for the same effect albeit at LD 8. I would also put an exarch in the WS unit with a spinneret rifle and fast shot for extra Dakka as well as having a quadgun on the aegis defence line. Have you thought about changing one of your support batteries into vibro cannons? With guide support they are quite likely to be firing 3 las cannons a turn, now I call that anti vehicle! Just my thoughts.

Only one of the Crimson Hunters may be upgraded to a Exarch, but if I drop the dire avenges, and max the other avenger squad out, add exarch to a crimson hunter, and add a spider and all the exarch goodies i'm still left with30+ points that I can't do anything with besides upgrading my farseers with useless upgrades. So, that is my problem at the moment. If i drop a squad of avengers, then I will have to employ some elites which are almost a waste of points in my opinion. So, I can keep the an extra scoring unit, or I get a CC squad of striking scorpions/ whatever else. I can't get a quad gun btw because I need the re-rolls to my reserves since I'm not running an autarch.

Just out of curiosity, what are your Avengers going to be doing during the game? I only ask because 160 pts for 9 T3 guys with a 4+/5++ seems to be a lot of points invested. I like the idea of having a double Farseer, I have had good experience using a Mantled JetSeer. Against Tau you have to be a lot more cagey though I agree, so that option is up to you. I'd almost like to see more Guardians. Perhaps a couple 10 man squads with Starcannons and Warlocks would do the trick? Still get the 2+ behind the ADL (Ld8, but still a ~60% success rate), have higher strength AP2 shooting, plus a few more bodies. Points left over allow the Exarch upgrade to either the Spiders or the Hunter.

However you go, I really like the idea and do something similar, running a ADL w/ Icarus, Autarch w/ Spiders, Maugan Ra, Scorps, 2 Shadow Weaver batteries, 3x 10 guardians w/ BL and Warlocks, 3x SC/SL Walkers, 2x 3 man Jetbikes. No Wraithknight as I don't have the $$ for it ATM

Good luck!

They are the most durable set of troops on foot, and they would act as midfield support. The range on their guns helps them in this roll as well. Yes, they are very weak at T3, but a 4+ 5++ is still nothing to snuff at ( and nothing to fear as well). Yea I won't say that the mantle is a bad upgrade by far, but with the Tau seeming to pop up in mass at any tourney, I can't spare my warlord not being in a unit for extra wounds. I do like the star cannon idea, as I think the star cannon is now the best anwser to the Riptide/MC, but the list needs more Anti-tank than that, so I had to sacrifice that. Going along with the guardian with warlock idea, mass guardians with conceal would make them a solid unit,but I do not want to rely on a psyker with ld 8 and the possibility to have him blow his head off turn one. To much randomness and risk to justify his 35 points. for 25 points I think it would be worth it, but 35 is just to many points to spare. Then again that is just me and my play style, and I know it works for others so YMMV. How's Maugan Ra and the Scorpions treating you? these two units don't get much publicity so I'd like to hear how they are doing for you. Also, Ever try fuegan out?

To be honest this is not remotely competitive. Any shooty army will nail you. You have very little survivability without the cover save. Not much ranged AT, mostly short ranged weapons on T3 models that are sat backfield. Any mechanised assault army or FMC heavy army will get you. Basically the only thing I think you can deal with is assault armies that walk slowly across the board into your guns. Which is not an army you'll see regularly in a competitive setting.

I'd suggest busting the Guardian unit down to two separate units, and give them anti-infantry guns like a scatter laser or starcannon. A Marine unit that gets into cc with that 20 man blob is going to make you cry when they sweep them under the rug. I Think the Crimson Hunters and WraithKnight can handle all your anti-tank needs, and don't forget that the warp spiders' guns are S7 against vehicles, and so are the Shadow weaver Templates (which are barrage...rear armor sniping, winkwik). My guess is you plan on moving the Dire Avengers up the field, and not using them as backfield objective campers? If so, I'd just make sure that you keep something nasty in front of them for the enemy to have to focus on, or that 4+/5++ is going to wither under any kind of concentrated shooting. My only other concern for this list is the eventuality that something gets into your backfield. I'm thinking a list like Daemon beasts, etc. You're going to get multi-charged and evaporated. Your Artillery crews go back to T3 and 5+ armor, and that means they will be toast. Again, keeping that Wraithknight or putting in a unit of Scorpions or using one of the DA units as a counter-charge could be useful. Good luck!

Flingit:
Not sure how this isn't remotely competitive. You mention shooty army will nail this list, but that isn't necessarily
True. Tau behind ADL can get hit by the barrage platforms, and the wraith knight can wither a lot of fire. The spiders are fast enough to get to the enemy shoot and then get out of LOS assuming I don't play them horrendously wrong. Even if there is a bad amount of terrain, I always have the option to deep strike them if need be. Then T2 the hunters come on and I now add mor anti tank/mc power. I will agree that flying mc lists will cause me grief, but them I just need to figure out a gameplan for that situation. Thanks for the advice though.

Homeskillet: I agree that I might want to break up the guardian squad as a squad assaulting them will make me cry, but anything short of hound dogs assaulting them means I deployed horribly or did not have my target priority right. No marines should be able to assault my back field
That easily. You are exactly right with the DA and I will note the advice about keeping threatening things in front of them! How have you done with the scorpions? They just don't stand out I'm the codex to me

I don't think Tau or Guard (I.e. the gun line armies) will brother shooting the knight. They'll just kill everything else. I'm not convinced the Spiders will reliably get in range before turn 2 and then getting out of LoS will depend greatly on terrain.

I just don't see what you actually outshoot? With what 2 BLs, 2 HWCs and 6 Shadow weavers. Really that is not a lot of Firepower. If you go second you'll have lost the game by the time your reserves turn up. Against Tau your Hunters die the turn they arrive and never get to shoot.

I just don't see what competitive builds you expect to beat with this list? Cronair? Wraithwing? Tau? Farsight Bomb? Guard gunline? Guard aircav? Serpent spam? Horrorstar? Screamer Choir? FM Circus?

What?

Then help the list instead of just bashing it. Your making points without making any suggestions. I won't say you aren't making some good points, but this is a thread to improve the lists and not just bash them.

Scorpions are great against anything except termies or units with all power weapons (GK, bloodletters, etc). 3 attacks each on the charge, plus a free auto-hit every turn of combat, is pretty awesome. A full unit on the charge with Exarch is getting 31 attacks, plus 10 auto-hits. And they almost always strike first. Whats not to love?

Scorpions are great against anything except termies or units with all power weapons (GK, bloodletters, etc). 3 attacks each on the charge, plus a free auto-hit every turn of combat, is pretty awesome. A full unit on the charge with Exarch is getting 31 attacks, plus 10 auto-hits. And they almost always strike first. Whats not to love?

You do make them sound good, but how do you deliver them to the opponent? also, against tau, it would almost be not worth taking them. Or maybe they are. I'm not sure how they work since I have not tried them this edition. Do you think 10 would fit in with the list?

toocool61 wrote:
Then help the list instead of just bashing it. Your making points without making any suggestions. I won't say you aren't making some good points, but this is a thread to improve the lists and not just bash them.

Because fundamentally a footdar gun line doesn't work. The codex does not have the range or firepower to do a gun line. This codex's strength is in its mobility, it needs to deliver crushing firepower to the right section of your opponents army and then reduce the return fire through positioning and withdrawing.

That's why I'm not making suggestions because the list can't work in a competitive environment it needs binning and starting again from fresh.

Scorpions will definitely have trouble assaulting static gunline Tau, suffering too many casualties to make assault worthwhile. However, that is only one build from one army. Also, the thing about gunline Tau is this: they gotta come out some time, because most games are objective-driven. Ensure those objectives are spread out, and he can kiss his supporting fire and and Ethereal LD bubble goodbye. When they do come out, you mince them to pieces. If they have crisis suits, you can catch them (or divert their movement by threatening with the Scorps).

As to their delivery, they Infiltrate, and so they deliver themselves. Even if you're stuck deploying 18" away from your intended target, you're going to get some shooting in turn 1 to soften them up before you get to them turn 2.

I'm not saying they're the best thing on the planet, but they are the best assault option the Eldar have (outside of some Phoenix Lords, who are awesome in cc). If you dropped the Guardians to 10, and one squad of DA down to bare bones 5, you could get a full squad with an Exarch in there. Maybe points left over to buff up the small DA squad some more.

While I agree with a lot stated here, (almost everything really),
I would recommend the spirit sear. Even with the points saved you don't get MotLG you still got a lot of points now. And spirit sears are good. If you roll a 4, keep that and trade the other one in for shrouded. Not your shadow weavers have 2+ armour, and 2+ cover. Pretty nice. Striking scoprpians are good, and I've used them well, I don't really think they would
Fit amazingly well in this list :(. You could outflank them, but I feel they will just be focused up dead before they do any real harm.

I would recommend the spirit sear. Even with the points saved you don't get MotLG you still got a lot of points now. And spirit sears are good. If you roll a 4, keep that and trade the other one in for shrouded. Not your shadow weavers have 2+ armour, and 2+ cover. Pretty nice. Striking scoprpians are good, and I've used them well, I don't really think they would
Fit amazingly well in this list :(. You could outflank them, but I feel they will just be focused up dead before they do any real harm.

The spirit seer has potential to get good powers, but majority of them are not that good. I see the Farseers powers in general as better, especially with divination. I won't say he doesn't have his uses, but the farseer is such a nice buff with the divination table. So many possibilities like a 4++, ignore cover, etc...

Whatever you think is best. Both of the, would have there uses in this list.