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HQ
LOC, Level 3, Greater Gift, Exalted Gift - 305
Keeper of Secrets, Greater Gift, Level 2 - 215

Troops
10 Horrors - 90
10 Horrors - 90

Heavy
Flying Slaanesh Prince, armour Greater Gift 235
Flying Slaanesh Prince, armour Greater Gift 235
Flying Slaanesh Prince, armour Greater Gift 235

1405

Now not sure about this. Each of the Slaanesh princes is almost a given to take the lash of despair (2d6 shots Strength: User) for greater gift. I like that, but unsure whether with the remainder of the points to take a level 1 each for all 3, or to give them exalted gifts. Normally I would want to take moar troops but I'm gonna use the portalglyhp on the LOC for extra reinforcement.

The LOC costs more than Fateweaver. Should I really be taking him? the LOC is very capable in combat though should he need to get in there, whilst Kairos most certainly is not.

Also, should I really take a Helldrake or nay?

Comments from seasoned daemon players particularly welcome

The princes will get cut down easily without warp forged armor...

If you're investing that many points into a LoC, why in the world are you not taking Fateweaver?

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
The princes will get cut down easily without warp forged armor...

They do have armour, its included in their pts. Made the assumption that people would realise that you need to take it

If you're investing that many points into a LoC, why in the world are you not taking Fateweaver?

That's what I was asking - do people think I should take FW instead of a regular LOC? Whilst undoubtedly great with his array of psychic powers and the 1 reroll per turn, he utterly sucks in combat, where the LOC is more than capable. was looking for opinions really

I was gonna say about warp forged armour, though looks like you have added it. It would be better if you listed it to be fair.

I think you should stick with the Lord of Change. As the Keeper is on foot it needs as much survival tools as it can get. Fatey cannot bring the portal so you need the Lord of Change for the portal and adds another flying monster.

In my flying circus list I use CSM allies and take a Mace Prince, Heldrake and Cultist unit. I think at this points level that's not going to work for you, it is just too many points. I would use the remainder points to get a greater reward on the Lord of Change and boost up the Pink Horror numbers. Not a massive lot you can do with 100 points when using big monsters.

Thanks for the constructive feedback - thats what I needed, a bit of analysis.

I agree that at the pts level the Helldrake, mace prince combo + the obligatory cultist unit is probably not going to help, and that I should go all out with just the Daemon MC's. If I get time I'll put up a couple of revised lists later. Didn't realise throne was as close as it is, so I best get painting!

You know what I like about this list? There's only 20 troop models and 5 big beasties. If you stick with the cheap (read: not Forgeworld) greater demon models, you could potentially field this army for under $500.

I think I've spent 4 times that much on space wolves alone.

 Grugknuckle wrote:
You know what I like about this list? There's only 20 troop models and 5 big beasties. If you stick with the cheap (read: not Forgeworld) greater demon models, you could potentially field this army for under $500.

I think I've spent 4 times that much on space wolves alone.

Thanks mate

Main reason I'm playing this army really, as i had a few spare daemon princes lying around from both my 5th ed CSM army and some that friends had given me. Just got to get the horrors, but will get them cheap too I reckon.

Well, with this army deployment is key. I battled such an army with my Necrons recently. He was setting up first (pitched battle) and deployed the DPs not symmetrically in the centre. This immediately gave me an advantage. He went for the kill with his 4 FMCs and the Nurgle Lord (deep striking). So I went for the win with my 3 Nightscythes killing his 4 Plague Bearer units (one appeared after rolling on the table).

Fateweaver can be useful in a mostly Daemon army, but if he's used in a subtle and wise manner. He's usually easily shot to hell, and being the Warlord (as he should be) that sucks.

I find most of the Oracle rerolling goes to failed Grimoire rolls and failed Grounding tests. Definitely has saved me many times, and of course, failed many times as well! But rerolling the Warp Storm can play a very big part in the game. Let's say you roll 2,3, 4 ....well, the Warlord Trait lets you reroll that entirely without the Oracle. But let's say you roll a 5 or 6 and a 1. So the 6 result isn't bad, but a 7 is null. So you can use the Oracle to reroll the lower dice and potentially get a super good Warp Storm result. Now that can be nifty! Plus all his psychic gun-ship potential, though vs GKs or Eldar this can be very ineffective.

All that said pro-Fatey, I love my Lord of Change. 3 Divination powers makes for excellent buffing and/or debuffing. Plus the Vector Striking and pretty good combat stats make for a highly versatile FMC.

If your Daemon Princes aren't too all out Slaaneshi looking my recommendation would be:

Fateweaver
Lord of Change/Exalted Reward/Greater Reward/Mastery 3

2 x 10 Horrors

2 x Daemon Prince of Tzeentch/ Wings/ Armor/ Mastery 3/ 2 Greater Rewards/ 1 Lesser Reward

That's 4 FMCs, and probably take all Biomancy on the DPs, though if you go up vs low Leadership armies who aren't embarked, maybe try Psychic Shriek, that's a pretty good Primaris power. All roll at 10 Ld for psychic tests, reroll 1s on saves.

Vector Striking will be your great friend too, even more than the Lash Whip, as Vector Strikes are S6 mostly and AP3 and ignore cover saves. Lesser Rewards should usually be the Staff of Change, but there are some other fun things on there too (I like that S8 shot and the Armorbane template).

Another Exalted Reward may be of use however. Now that I think about it, maybe change the LOC to 2 Greater Rewards/1Lesser and the 2 DPs to Exalted/Greater....if they take Biomancy they may not need the other Greater Reward as much. Then you get the Portaglyph (if needed) AND a Grimoire (usually a good thing to have!)

Yes, some armies will be able to eat this army quickly, but it should be a bunch of fun to play with and able to be at the very least a solid pain in the neck to deal with, and easy to transport, that's for sure
Also, keep Troops in Reserves, almost always!
Good luck!

 Caranthir987 wrote:
Thanks for the constructive feedback - thats what I needed, a bit of analysis.

I agree that at the pts level the Helldrake, mace prince combo + the obligatory cultist unit is probably not going to help, and that I should go all out with just the Daemon MC's. If I get time I'll put up a couple of revised lists later. Didn't realise throne was as close as it is, so I best get painting!

Happy to help.

This is my 2k Daemons list with CSM if any interest:

Keeper of Secrets - mastery level 3 & 2 x greater rewards
Daemon Prince - wings, armour, daemon of slaanesh & mace

10 x Horrors
10 x Horrors
10 x Cultists

10 x Flesh Hounds
10 x Flesh Hounds
Heldrake - baleflamer

Prince - wings, armour, 2 x rewards, daemon of slaanesh
Prince - wings, armour, 2 x rewards, daemon of slaanesh
Prince - wings, armour, 2 x rewards, daemon of slaanesh

Ok guys thanks for your input. Got a couple more practice games in today using Kairos. Is very useful, but I think I'm going to go without him for the time being:

LOC, greater gift, lesser gift 260
Slaanesh prince, greater gift, armour wings 235

Horrors 90
Horrors 90

Tzeentch prince, armour wings, level 1, exalted gift 285
Tzeentch prince, armour wings, level 1, exalted gift 285
Tzeentch prince, armour wings, level 1 255

Gives me 5 flying MC's. With still a reasonable amount of shooting, probably more than I had before. Fateweaver is good as an artillery piece, but I feel that in general I should probably need to land to get stuck in and finish people off. Also, I don't think I'd had 5 flying MC's so far in a 1500 incarnation. The Keeper of Secrets - yeah, maybe with a bit of practice I could get him to do something but i am just getting him killed all the time with no return. Fatweaver reroll lols is good, but I still should get at least 1 decent buff from Divination with the LOC, then flickering fire from 4 flying MC's plus Slaanesh prince lash

I don't know. I think you need greater gifts on your princes.. What are they going to do without shooting or spells in the air- Vector strike? I think it would be good to give them at least the whip or spells to shoot while in the air. When I play Daemon princes most of the time they are shooting and vector striking and only coming to the ground if they are assaulting something that they can kill. Otherwise, they are in the air (unless grounded). Just my opinion... I used to be a big lord of change fan too and still am, but if running one or the other I almost always use fateweaver as the reroll and the reroll the warp storm is soooo powerful.