Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Greetings everyone.

I'm currently working on a variant of a list I've run with mixed success in the recent past and am hoping to further tweak the list to suit my tastes.

First, the list, then some explanation.

-----------------------------------------------
Imperial Guard, Vostroyan First Born, V Combat Regiment"The Victors"

H.Q.: Co. Command Squad. - 140 Pts.
Commander, Company Standard, Vox Caster, 2x Sniper Rifles, Astropath, & Master of the Fleet.

Troops: Infantry Platoon - 355 Pts.
- Platoon Command Squad - Jr. Officer, Vox Caster, 3x Meltaguns (65 Pts.)
- Infantry Squad - Lascannon, Voxcaster, Sniper Rifle (80 Pts.)
- Infantry Squad - Lascannon, Voxcaster, Sniper Rifle (80 Pts.)
- Special Weapon Squad - 2x Grenade Launchers, Demolition Charge (65 Pts.) [Rides in Vendetta]
- Special Weapon Squad - 2x Flamers, Demolition Charge (65 Pts.) [Rides in Vendetta]

Troops: Veteran Squad - 125 Pts.
- Sgt. w/ Plasma Pistol & CCW, 3x Plasma Guns
-Chimera Transport (hull heavy flamer) - 55 Pts.

Elite: Psyker Battle Squad - 110 Pts.
- One Overseer, 9x Battle Psykers
-Chimera Transport (hull heavy flamer) - 55 Pts.

Fast Attack: Vendetta Gunship - 130 Pts.

Fast Attack: Vendetta Gunship - 130 Pts.

Heavy Support: Griffon Mortar Squadron - 150 Pts.
-2x Griffon Mortar tanks

Heavy Support: Griffon Mortar Squadron - 150 Pts.
-2x Griffon Mortar tanks

Aegis Defense Line - 50 Pts.

- Grey Knight Allies -

H.Q: Inquisitor Torquemada Coetez - 100 Pts.

Troops: Grey Knight Terminator Squad - 450 Pts.
-1x Grey Knight w/ Psycannon & Daemonhammer, 4x Grey Knights w/ Storm Bolters & Daemonhammers
-1x Grey Knight w/ Psycannon & Force Halberds, 4x Grey Knights w/ Storm Bolters & Force Halberds
-------------------------------------------------------

Basic deployment ideas are as follows. Set up Aegis to defend objectives & form gun line with griffons in the rear to help support/bombard targets. Company Command hides best they can, as do Platoon Command. The Platoon Command squad is there to help deal with deep striking armor, they along with the chimera borne veteran squad hopefully can put enough of a dent in deep striking termies/infiltrating close combat specialists/armored targets that the focused fire of the rest of the army can finish the immediate threat targets off. The psyker battle squad hopefully hits the unit the griffons will be targeting to lower their leadership from the hard candy shell of the chimera and cause them to break/fall back. The special weapons teams are late-game objective grabbers that hot drop out of the vendettas. Wanted to keep these squads on the cheaper side (below 70 points) so if the vendetta gets blasted out of the sky, I'm out less than 200 points of my force if they all bite the bullet in the crash. The Demo Charge is there to be an objective clearer if I land close enough to toss it or if there's a more tempting target to go after send them after it on a pass. Also: The lulz.

The Grey Knights will typically deploy near the I.G., or on the other side of of the board from my gun line. It'll depend on the objectives and their placement. They'll either act as a Close Combat deterrent, gunning down anything within 24" with Coetez offering psychic support in the form of Presence (and other powers) if he is near them. If not, Coetez will deploy with the I.G. Command Squad depending on what he rolls powers wise and the Grey Knights will put pressure on the opposite flank.

The Vendettas primary goal is anti-flyer and then anti-armor/Hard Targets once they become available in addition to dropping the special weapons teams on an objective late game.

Any thoughts on the list? I'm fairly new to the concept of allies. Previously I used a large Death Company (20 strong) lead by an elite chaplain and a bare-bones B.A. Librarian as my ally, but I've swapped it over to Grey Knights to see if I can hone the list further and with the points I've saved, squeezed the psyker battle squad into the list as well.

Thanks in advance for any comments.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst

Red__Thirst wrote:

Imperial Guard, Vostroyan First Born, V Combat Regiment"The Victors"

H.Q.: Co. Command Squad. - 140 Pts.
Commander, Company Standard, Vox Caster, 2x Sniper Rifles, Astropath, & Master of the Fleet.

Sniper rifles are not the best use of points here, buy an autocannon team, or make points for a LC team. Otherwise, good setup

Troops: Infantry Platoon - 355 Pts.
- Platoon Command Squad - Jr. Officer, Vox Caster, 3x Meltaguns (65 Pts.)
- Infantry Squad - Lascannon, Voxcaster, Sniper Rifle (80 Pts.)
- Infantry Squad - Lascannon, Voxcaster, Sniper Rifle (80 Pts.)

The vox casters, here and on the CCS, are a waste of points, as the Regimental Standard lets you do the same thing. Drop them, and use the points to upgrade the snipers to meltas, as specialisation is the key with guard. Melta+ LC will make the squad death to anything with AV at long and short range.

- Special Weapon Squad - 2x Grenade Launchers, Demolition Charge (65 Pts.) [Rides in Vendetta]
- Special Weapon Squad - 2x Flamers, Demolition Charge (65 Pts.) [Rides in Vendetta]

seems ok, never used them personally, but maybe swap the GL for flamers in the other squad.

Troops: Veteran Squad - 125 Pts.
- Sgt. w/ Plasma Pistol & CCW, 3x Plasma Guns
-Chimera Transport (hull heavy flamer) - 55 Pts.

Good setup, but swap the HF for the HB, it doubles the Anti-infantry firepower of the Chimera. If you are in range to fire the flamer, the Chimera is dead anyway.

Elite: Psyker Battle Squad - 110 Pts.
- One Overseer, 9x Battle Psykers
-Chimera Transport (hull heavy flamer) - 55 Pts.

Again, good, but the same applies to the chimera, swap the HF for HB.

Fast Attack: Vendetta Gunship - 130 Pts.

Fast Attack: Vendetta Gunship - 130 Pts.

can't go wrong here.

Heavy Support: Griffon Mortar Squadron - 150 Pts.
-2x Griffon Mortar tanks

Heavy Support: Griffon Mortar Squadron - 150 Pts.
-2x Griffon Mortar tanks

Good units, cheap and dependable, with good redundancy. Keep them behind the ADL and target hordes.

Aegis Defense Line - 50 Pts.

- Grey Knight Allies -

H.Q: Inquisitor Torquemada Coetez - 100 Pts.

Troops: Grey Knight Terminator Squad - 450 Pts.
-1x Grey Knight w/ Psycannon & Daemonhammer, 4x Grey Knights w/ Storm Bolters & Daemonhammers
-1x Grey Knight w/ Psycannon & Force Halberds, 4x Grey Knights w/ Storm Bolters & Force Halberds

Good setup, although I'm not sure on the all-hammer squad. consider some halberds or swords for hits at initiative.

Basic deployment ideas are as follows. Set up Aegis to defend objectives & form gun line with griffons in the rear to help support/bombard targets. Company Command hides best they can, as do Platoon Command. The Platoon Command squad is there to help deal with deep striking armor, they along with the chimera borne veteran squad hopefully can put enough of a dent in deep striking termies/infiltrating close combat specialists/armored targets that the focused fire of the rest of the army can finish the immediate threat targets off. The psyker battle squad hopefully hits the unit the griffons will be targeting to lower their leadership from the hard candy shell of the chimera and cause them to break/fall back. The special weapons teams are late-game objective grabbers that hot drop out of the vendettas. Wanted to keep these squads on the cheaper side (below 70 points) so if the vendetta gets blasted out of the sky, I'm out less than 200 points of my force if they all bite the bullet in the crash. The Demo Charge is there to be an objective clearer if I land close enough to toss it or if there's a more tempting target to go after send them after it on a pass. Also: The lulz.

The Grey Knights will typically deploy near the I.G., or on the other side of of the board from my gun line. It'll depend on the objectives and their placement. They'll either act as a Close Combat deterrent, gunning down anything within 24" with Coetez offering psychic support in the form of Presence (and other powers) if he is near them. If not, Coetez will deploy with the I.G. Command Squad depending on what he rolls powers wise and the Grey Knights will put pressure on the opposite flank.

The Vendettas primary goal is anti-flyer and then anti-armor/Hard Targets once they become available in addition to dropping the special weapons teams on an objective late game.

Any thoughts on the list? I'm fairly new to the concept of allies. Previously I used a large Death Company (20 strong) lead by an elite chaplain and a bare-bones B.A. Librarian as my ally, but I've swapped it over to Grey Knights to see if I can hone the list further and with the points I've saved, squeezed the psyker battle squad into the list as well.

Thanks in advance for any comments.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst

Sounds like a solid list, only the points listed above need altering. Overall the plan sounds good, although I would suggest making the Demo Charge teams focus on nuking stuff first and objectives second, leave the objectives to the PIS and be agressive with the SWS.

Maybe drop one of the griffon squads and toss in a basilisk, just to dislodge any pesky MEQ's hiding behind walls/squatting on objectives. Otherwise I like it, although I agree with Paradigm, even when I play pure GK I never go full daemon hammer, it just doesn't make sense with the other anti-armor/MC you have in the list.

Thank you for the feedback, and I should clarify the Grey Knight Termie unit is all one troops choice, not two, I didn't intend of fielding two five man squads, though I might in Hind-sight after play testing the list to see two five man teams operating independently will work better than one ten man squad. The reason for this is it gives me some 'ablative' wounds depending on what I need the squad to do for me. I can put the halberds in the front and pull from them if I need the hammers to stay alive while I close on a hard target, or vice-versa if I need the halberds to remain alive.

Also, are you certain that the VoxCaster isn't needed? The Regimental standard allows re-rolling of failed Morale and Pinning tests. It does not say that it allows you to re-roll any Leadership test period. Orders are just a leadership test, this is neither morale, nor pinning. Just clarifying on that. I'll leave them in, pending this is clarified, but thank you for pointing it out if indeed it does work that way.

Here's my reasoning for setting the command squad up and the infantry squads up as I have. The gun line Guard are going to shoot at things at long range for the first few turns of the game, be it an armored unit, or a tough infantry squad like Marines or Termies most of the time. I'd rather let them have another rending shot past 24", and also gives me one more shot as something closes within 24" as well. Is one more shot worth it? Who knows, but I've got the trio of melta on the Platoon Command Squad to deal with AV that gets close with the obligatory Bring it Down order issued to them to help with getting the Melta's to hit, rather than moving up with the gun line to get the melta in range of a threat and forcing the Lascannon to snap-fire. This way I can have a 'response' unit for AV that doesn't make my heavy weapons shoot at BS1 in the event they need to move. That's my thought process on the squads as they're set up.

I'm sorry to say I vehemently (but respectfully! ) disagree with your assessment of the Chimera's hull weapon. I've run them with Heavy Bolters, and they do work to their credit, but I've found having the heavy flamer gives the tank so much more versatility and also helps clear out dug in troops in cover (especially zeno types) very very well. I'll call it a difference of opinion on that.

Also, the Griffons all have Heavy Flamers on the hull as well. Nothing surprises a deep striking unit more than having four heavy flamer templates dropped on them as they land next to my lines.

Lastly, the Grenade launcher squad is more of a 'this is what I have' option. I'll see if I can get a couple of flamers and try them out, but I figured having a pair of strength 6 shots at the rear/side armor of a tank might not suck when coupled with the demo charge

Thanks again for the feedback. Looking forwards to seeing what other feedback people might have.

Take it easy,

-RT-

The thing to bear in mind with the GKT is that should you need more squads, you can combat-squad them. So I would leave them as a 10 man squad ,and combat squad if needed. That way, you can also vary the weapons in each half, with both psycannons in one half should you need more of a concentrated firebase, for example.

Oops, you are right on the standard, my mistake. I'm still not convinced on the usefulness of the vox, I would still rather have the melta, simply because it focuses the squad more. I see your point on not wanting to advance, but I like to think of meltas more as defensive weapons, meaning no transport will ever want to get near your gunline.

Fair enough on the HF over the HB, it really is a matter of opinion.

The GL aren't bad to be honest, I just considered more flamers would synergise better and provide more redundancy.

On the whole it's still a good list, best of luck with it.

Thank you for that, and yea I was scratching my head on the standard vs. vox thing for a moment, even double-checked my rules to make sure I wasn't misremembering how they worked.

And yes, I'll determine on the GKT how I want to run them based on my opponent. At bare minimum it'll be a 3/2 split in both squads of Hammers and Halberd's if I do combat squad them the vast majority of the time. At the most extreme it'll be one hammer to four halberds and one halberd to four hammers split.

I've got the models to field both special weapons teams with flamers and may yet do that, just want to see if I can find *SOME* use for these damn grenade launcher models. The other idea I had was to put the Grenade Launchers in both of the the Infantry Squads in the infantry platoon. Same range as the lasguns in the squad, and gives me a straight up strength 6 shot at something with high toughness along with the Lascannon, (Wraithlords, wraithguard, etc) BUT, I feel like the sniper rifle is the better option for that contingency, as if it is a high-toughness model I auto-wound it on a 4+ regardless and have the chance to rend to boot.

Thanks for the feedback Paradigm, I'll let you know how my first playtest goes with this iteration of the list.

Be good or be good at it man.

Take it easy,

-RT-

I think taking the GL in the PIS is probably a better choice, the strength means you will still wound Wraithguard ect on a 4, but can also threaten light vehicles. I have run that setup wuite successfully. Then you are a few models away from a sniper SWS, which if you are set on running them, is probably the best way of doing so, to better concentrate the fire.

 Paradigm wrote:
I think taking the GL in the PIS is probably a better choice, the strength means you will still wound Wraithguard ect on a 4, but can also threaten light vehicles. I have run that setup wuite successfully. Then you are a few models away from a sniper SWS, which if you are set on running them, is probably the best way of doing so, to better concentrate the fire.

Wouldn't using the snipers as Ratlings be a better use of the models?

 Talore wrote:
Wouldn't using the snipers as Ratlings be a better use of the models?

I looked at that, but ratling snipers are not scoring, and I'm shooting for as many scoring units as possible in the list. Also the models are guardsmen with sniper rifles, and unless I was playing someone who didn't mind me using those models as proxies for the Ratlings, it wouldn't be WYSIWYG for tournament play purposes.

I like Ratlings, though I'd have to completely remove one of the special weapon drop squads from the list to fit them in, which I'm loathe to do. I also only have four sniper rifle guardsmen to use as well, so I'd basically be getting a 4 man ratling team. If I were to run them I'd want at minimum five to six.

Lastly, and this speaks to the particular army I'm playing, Vostroyans. In my mind, Ratlings just don't feel right in the list. Same for Ogryns, and to a lesser extent, rough riders. If I'm going to have a sniper rifle in my army, I want it carried by a guardsman I suppose. Just my personal view on that. Take it for what you will.

Thanks for the thought though Talore

Edit: Also, I wouldn't run the sniper rifles in the Special Weapon Squads as they'll be jumping out of a Vendetta mid-to-late game and I want those squads armed with either Assault or Rapid Fire weaponry so they can land, and shoot if need be at full ballistic Skill while, hopefully, using their demo charge to good effect. The sniper rifles will be in the gun line if I run them. Will playtest subbing a Heavy Bolter into the Company Command Squad in lieu of the paired sniper rifles, but I just feel like the Sniper Rifles are more versatile for dealing with the appearance of high toughness monsters such as the Riptide, Wraith Knight, and any random Tyranid Monstrous Creatures I might run up on, not to mention Chaos or Daemons. I'd rather take one fewer shot that will force a save on 4+ with the possibility to Rend vs. three shots that may only wound a Toughness: 6 critter on a 5+ and likely won't ignore the armor save. It's only four shots from my army, granted, (two from the CCS, one from each PIS) but they are all 36" range shots, and tie in nicely with the possibility of working in tandem with the Weaken Resolve of my Psyker Battle Squad. Ideally I could try and hope to pin a unit I don't want moving or shooting at me in the next round if I can force a pinning check with sniper fire or even better make them fail a morale save from casualties inflicted as a result of indirect ordinance from the Griffons.

Take it easy,

-RT-

Ah, I didn't consider that Ratlings aren't scoring, that is a thing. And of course, if it doesn't fit the flavour of your army, you're not forced to take them! Cheers.

You mentionned that "If not, Coetez will deploy with the I.G. Command Squad "
I am not sure he can as they are not battle brothers (but i might be wrong).
Otherwise he would be great in a big platoon to twin link everything and potentially make the opponent reroll saves (or give the platoon a 4+ inv save or something).

Sorry for the late reply to you Sleekid, you are correct.

They are not battle brothers, so he cannot attach him there. I had overlooked that when I put this list up initially.

Coetez will be running with the Grey Knights exclusively, and I'll either put them near my guard, or on the opposite flank so my opponent has something to worry about/deal with away from the Guard side of my lines.

Thanks for that.

Take it easy,

-RT-

No problem, to be honest i thought about a platoon led by Coteaz a day before your post but then looked at rules and was disapointed so i hoped i understoog wrong and that you were right