Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Alright, so, listen up. The first reason this is going here is because the outcome is hopefully going to be a 2400 point Lizardman army which I shall take to a charity tournament in October...and probably watch as it goes horribly wrong and my dice betray me yet again. But my problem is that I'm indecisive. And just want too much. And then proceed to procrastinate and do a whole lot of nothing. I know, I know.

That's where you come in. This initial post will set some background. And some suggestions. And hopefully we can work through things bit by bit to produce a final result. Clever, eh? I'll even let folks know how the day went afterwards - so, give a few months.

First let's start with some basics. What exactly do I have available? Well, currently I have the following...

Slann/Lord Kroak
Slann
Slann
Saurus Leader on Carnosaur/Cold One (i.e. I have two mounts for him)
Saurus Leader on Carnosaur
Saurus Leader on Cold One
Saurus Leader on Cold One
Saurus Scar Veteran BSB
3 Saurus Scar Vet on foot
Saurus Leader/Chakax
3 Skink Priests
3 Skink Chiefs
1 Skink Chief on Terradon

30 Saurus with Spears
30 Saurus with Spears
30 Saurus with HW/Shield
15 Skinks with blowpipes
20 Skinks with Javelin/Shield inc. Command

30 Temple Guard
5 Cold Ones - Spears
10 Cold Ones - Spears
10 Cold Ones - HWs
12 Jungle Swarms
3 Kroxigor
3 Kroxigor
2 Stegadons
7 Terradons
10 Chameleon Skinks

4 Salamander Packs

A respectable spread, if I do say so myself. But wait, there's more!

With any luck (please be hoping for me guys) I shall come into some funds due to a PPI issue that has come up recently. As a result I may be adding the following to my Lizards...

Ancient Stegadon - EotG
2 Bastiladons - going to deliberately make it so that they can be swapped between configurations.
Troglodon
16 more Saurus - probably going to add 10 to the HW/Shield unit.

Now the rules for the Tournament are simple.

2400 points, no special characters.

Here's some example lists of what I took before - first for the predecessor tournament in 2010 (which was 2500 points) and then for the first tournament in 2011. Bear in mind these were under the older army book and the WFB meta was sort of new.

Slann Mage Priest - Focus of Mystery (Life), Focused Rumination, Becalming Cogitation, Battle Standard - Standard of Discipline
20 Temple Guard - Full Command with Banner of Eternal Flame, champion with Dragon Helm.

Scar Veteran - Great Weapon, Gamblers Armour, Ironcurse Icon
29 Saurus - Spears, Full Command

Scar Veteran - Shield, Crown of Command, Dragonbane Pendant
19 Saurus - Full Command

20 Saurus - Spears, Full Command

Skink Priest - Level 2, Cube of Darkness

10 Skinks - Blowpipes

2 Salamander Packs

1 Salamander Pack

Lessons learned - Hordes hasn't come into fashion yet but what few I did encounter hit hard. Saurus were still fairly overpriced for what they did and though multiple blocks could be scary they quickly fell apart when focused. Clearly the army needed more impact to it. Life is a good lore but the army was way, way too dependent on the Regen Temple Guard block to do anything. I still placed fifth overall, just 100 VPs away from placing second :(

With that in mind I tried a different approach for the next tournament. 2400 points, toying with the idea of Lore of Beasts on a solo Slann. This tournament...went less well.

Slann Mage Priest - Lore of Beasts, Higher State of Consciousness, Focused Rumination, Becalming Cogitation, Plaque of Tepok

Saurus Oldblood - Halberd, Glittering Scales, VotFF
Scar Veteran - Light Armour, Halberd, BSB, Razor Standard

30 Saurus - Spears, Full Command

Scar Veteran - Shield, Crown of Command, Dragonbane Gem

24 Saurus - Full Command

Scar Veteran - Cold One, Shield, Gold Sigil Sword

9 Cold One Cavalry - Full Command, Jaguard Standard

Skink Priest - Dispel Scroll

2 Salamander Packs

1 Salamander Pack

What did I learn? Hordes. Hordes are the way forward. They murdered my smaller units and the fact I couldn't roll a single dice to save my life meant my dream of a bubble of S8 and S7 Saurus heroes went downhill fast. The list was build to deal with Tomb Kings, which were the new big thing with their Sphinxes. And I came across not a single one. Also, my dice rolled terribly.

So...the new plan.

The new plan is to put something together that's solid, balanced, plays to the strengths of the Lizardman army and makes use of their recent upgrades. So, just going by the new book alone here is what catches my eye.

- Slann. High Magic is amazing. I want to use it. But I'm torn. Do I take one Slann, kit him up a bit to be a channel-frog and then take the Temple Guard to go with him and use High Magic all about or do I max out my Lords with 2 naked Slann? I really don't trust naked Slann. I can see myself rolling terrible spells and tbh a naked Slann doesn't have some of the shiny things a kitted frog does.

-Saurus. Predatory Fighter is the stuff. As hordes are the new big thing I am seriously leaning toward a Saurus horde. But spears or HW/Shield? HW Shield is seeming the logical approach for the parry save alone.

-Jungle Swarms - Ooooooh my. These are cheaper, give whatever's in combat with their enemies poisoned attacks and are a bunch of bonus wounds and attacks at low low price!

-Stegadons - Stegadons seem to be the Lizardmen's answer to Monstrous Infantry. Multi-wounding impact hits could prove most useful here.

-Cold Ones - I'm just thinking of what the Horn of Kygor could do with the new cold ones. Predatory Fighter riders, Frenzied mounts...that just sounds brutal. A HW/Shield option makes them so much cheaper too.


So what are my initial ideas?

I'm leaning toward the following...

Slann - Loremaster (High), Extra dice to channel, Channelling staff.
3 Skink Priests - to keep the Saurus under control but also to mass spam Heavens and Beast buffs.
2 Scar Veterans

Saurus Horde
2 Skink skirmish blocks
Temple Guard block - 25 strong perhaps?
2 Stegadons - multi wound impact hits.
2 units of Swarms - 4 strong each?

Salamanders

Now, to the refining part.

Where to go folks? Opinions and all?

First question...

BSB and Lords.

Slann BSB in the Temple Guard block? Or Saurus BSB?

things ive noticed.

Stegadons and carnosaur do well againgst rank and file multiwound models (like minitaurs and ogres) but if put up againgst a hero or lord just end up dying.

However, slann based army using engine of the gods does well. EotG's gives all units within 6 inches a 6+ ward, so you can swap to spears if you want.

Combo'd with swarms for poison, and a solar engine bastilidon protecting one of your flanks and giving +1 init, a 60 strong horde of sauras is a nasty nasty thing.

Might not even need the temple guard, just attatch the slann to the sauras block.

add in a skink priest or 2 and your magic phase will be amazing.

Alright, so, update time. Have played about with a list and figure this could be a way forward. I'll explain my logic after this.

Lord - Slann Mage Priest - Focus of Mystery, Becalming Cogitation, Harmonic Convergence, Channelling Staff, Battle Standard - 430 points

Special - 26 Temple Guard - Full Command - 394 points

Hero - Scar Veteran - Light Armour, Halberd, Sacred Stegadon Helm of Itza, Ironcurse Icon - 132 points

Core - 40 Saurus - Full Command, Hand Weapons and Shields - 470 points

Hero - Skink Priest - Lore of Heavens - Dispel Scroll - 90 points

Hero - Skink Priest - Lore of Beasts - Cube of Darkness - 95 points

Core - 12 Skink Skirmishers - Blowpipes - 84 points

Core - 12 Skink Skirmishers - Javelins and Shields - 84 points

Special - 2 Jungle Swarms - 70 points

Special - Stegadon - Sharpened Horns - 235 points

Special - Stegadon - Sharpened Horns - 235 points

Rare - Salamander Pack - 80 points

The plan here is simple. Hammer and Anvil. The Slann and Temple Guard form one hell of an anvil, being stubborn and all with the possibility of Slann and Skink augments.

The Saurus horde, swarms and stegadons are my hammer. If need be the Saurus can be the anvil and the Temple Guard will be the hammer.

This army is all about co-ordinated charges. If I see a big MI horde the plan will be to hammer it with Stegadons, use the Slann's Drain Magic to aggressively strip away any augments or spells it may have on it and watch 2D6 + 2 impact hits with multiple wounds go to work. At the same time I also plan to throw either the Saurus or Temple Guard at it.

The Skink priests are scroll caddy, portable augments and when it gets to combat time their plan is to scatter and give the Slann LoS for arcane vassal spellcasting as the Slann's unit can be there for a very, very long time.

Depending on what I'm facing or how it's going the Slann will burn spells off and swap for whatever Lore seems appropriate at the time - for example, if it looks like a grindfest war of attrition (for example, if I see large hordes of Dwarves walking toward me) I'll burn Tempest off in advance and swap it for something from Lore of Life.

If I see plenty of armour coming toward me I'll burn something off for Lore of Metal.

The Skink Priests are really there to keep the saurus under wraps and also for augments. The joy of their lores is that if I roll something I don't want the signature spells still work out with that hex and with Wyssan's (which I might even consider throwing on a Stegadon should I get a juicy charge off on a flank to up its Strength and Toughness!)

Skirmishing skink units are just to make up core and maybe go for war machines or act as redirectors if need be.