Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, I had enough random bits laying around to assemble a full assault squad minus the jump packs, which I can get on Ebay for really cheap.

I play a Salamander style army most of the time and have never used an assault squad . Lower points, I generally just take a Libby and call it good without Vulkan. I use Stormtalons in my fast attack slots most of the time, but have been eying assault marines lately because I like the look.

Fluff aside, I know that Assault Squads are pretty much crap in the current dex/edition, but I'm really wanting to add a couple of full units to my army.

1. Is there any way to make them efficient without using allies currently?
2. Based on the rumors, do we think that they may become more viable in the next codex (enough to warrant actually using them)?

My hope is that with the rumored point reduction, adding them to my lists might be an option, but since I've never used them in 5th or 6th, I have no idea what to base my decisions on.

If they end up being lackluster, I'll just be making another Dev or Tac squad with them.

In the chaos dex you can take 5 guys with 2 special weapons. If you can currently do this (now or in the next dex) I would recommend:

5 assault marines with 2 meltas and maybe a lightning claw on seargent.

Don't bother with plasma pistols, with just 5 guys your probably not going to do more damage in melee than the extra 2 shots that a proper plasma gun would give you.

What they should have going for them in the new dex is two things,

- Point decrease
- Traits.

Best trait for getting there is Ultramarines Assault, fleet is very good.
Second is Ravenguard, reroll all dice, not as good, but Stealth.

Salamanders though, you'd leverage the flamer ability.

Just remember they are a bully unit, designed to kill vehicles and stuff that doesn't want to be in assault. You want the TH/SS termies to back up against real threats.

They can be effective in the second wave of a drop pod list, coming in T2, as the first round of pods and marines/dreads can create a shielded landing zone for them, and allow them to assault the likely weakened enemy line before they can properly react to the pods. If, like DA, they get the option for 2 flamers/meltas in the 5-man squad, they could be great as DS suicide units, rerolling wounds with Chapter Tactics and hits with Vulkan.

Well, as rumored the new SM codex will contain special rules or traits for the first seven foundings including Ravenguard. It appears that the whole army gets stealth and Vanguard gets mobility making Assault Marines worthwhile.

they can be useful when used properly, I usually include a full unit in my army

Goodness knows for the new Codex, but as of right now... the best way to make them effective is force multiplication. Either a Chaplain to reroll misses on the charge, or a Librarian for a not-quite-guaranteed reroll on misses every time.
In either case, you have two characters with a power weapon built in so you can give the Sergeant something alternative to cover all your bases. Taking the Chaplain's Crozius, or a Librarian with staff? Give the Sergeant an axe or fist. Given your Librarian an axe? Give your Sergeant a sword or maul.

Hit and Run would make them a lot more dangerous.

Being able to use your assault packs during the movement and shooting phase could be really good -- depending on how fast they can move.

Scouting Hit and Run Assault squads would be interesting (White Scars)

In three weeks, we'll see what their future is.

assault marines are going to be alot cheaper and so might acctually be worth taking again.

Im certainly happy that i'll get to use my 20+ jumppacks again.

Put a Chaplain with them and they can do work on (most) non dedicated CC units.

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
Put a Chaplain with them and they can do work on (most) non dedicated CC units.

I think this is the key. ASM should target weak units like FW, guardsmen and anything up to necron warriors, but against anything with CC capability they are less useful, and you should use terminators to deal with this kind of squad.

 labmouse42 wrote:
Hit and Run would make them a lot more dangerous.

Being able to use your assault packs during the movement and shooting phase could be really good -- depending on how fast they can move.

I thought being able to use their Jump Packs in both movement and assault was that they could move up to 12" in the movement phase and then assault with rerollable charge distance and Hammer of Wrath. Is it meant to be more like Jump Packs?

Despite getting traits the main weakness of an assault squad is the inability to cause actual damage on most targets. They need more attacks or more armor ignoring weapons. Hit and Run and scout would be great, but still not help them kill anything.

I've actually had pretty good success with my Raven Guard army that uses a pretty substantial amount of Assault Marines. I allied them in using BA with a librarian.

So now I have reliable deep strikes, and combat squad them to put all my flamers into one squad (to kill light objective campers wtih ease) and all my meltas into a different squad (to kill the heavy tanks.) That leaves me with two other super mobile objective takers that can bully non-assault units off objectives. Shrike joins one of the 4 squads to add a hard hitting melee model to a squad that needs it.

The rest of my force has a drop pod tactical squad, and a biker psuedo death squad (duelist captain, staff librarian, naked sergeant, and 2 plasma rifles) that I can hide and rapidly get to anywhere on the board. Past that I've got two Stormtalons for air superiority and to pop open light vehicles for my other units to knock out.

Obviously this isn't a top-tier army, but played right they do some serious work. I've only lost one game with them so far against a list I tailored for my friend to use against me.

Eihnlazer wrote:
assault marines are going to be alot cheaper and so might acctually be worth taking again.

Im certainly happy that i'll get to use my 20+ jumppacks again.

Well, I play a full company (formation: Wings of Sanguinius) at our APO event on Saturday.

If they are like the DA ones and if you play Sallies they'll be your goodbye enemy light infantry squads.

They'll be 105pts for 2 Flamers, a combi-flamer, drop pod and with re-rolls to wound (assuming the Sally CT).

That's a steal.

wtnind wrote:In the chaos dex you can take 5 guys with 2 special weapons. If you can currently do this (now or in the next dex) I would recommend:

5 assault marines with 2 meltas and maybe a lightning claw on seargent.

Don't bother with plasma pistols, with just 5 guys your probably not going to do more damage in melee than the extra 2 shots that a proper plasma gun would give you.

Vanilla space marines cannot take meltaguns, and have never been able to take 2 specials in a 5 man squad. It looks like they will be able to take 2 in 5 man squads in the new book though, but still no word on melta.

Eihnlazer wrote:assault marines are going to be alot cheaper and so might acctually be worth taking again.

Im certainly happy that i'll get to use my 20+ jumppacks again.

They are going down 1 point per model and probably don't need to fork out the 10 points for a veteran sergeant. That's a saving of 20 points on a 10 man squad. Not insignificant, but you are probably going to want the vet serg on a melee unit for the LD bump...so you are only saving 10 point. This will not take them into the "Useful" category. Also, Bikes are what, 20ish points now? They get TL-bolters, a toughness boost and hammer of wrath every time they charge, not to mention melta and plasma guns. Attack bikes and Storm Talons also crowd the fast attack slot with better units overall.

Kirasu wrote:Despite getting traits the main weakness of an assault squad is the inability to cause actual damage on most targets. They need more attacks or more armor ignoring weapons. Hit and Run and scout would be great, but still not help them kill anything.

Kirasu gets it. The main flaw with vanilla ASM is that they can't actually kill anything worthwhile. 10 Charging ASM getting all their attacks will kill 2-3 MeQ troops. Factor in that the whole unit will rarely make contact, overwatch and enemy shooting cutting down that 10 man squad pre-combat and return attacks, and you are looking at a weak squad.

Hell, read some BA threads, they consider ASM marginal at best when they are scoring, have furious charge, FnP and more accurate deepstrike!

 Carnage43 wrote:


Vanilla space marines cannot take meltaguns, and have never been able to take 2 specials in a 5 man squad. It looks like they will be able to take 2 in 5 man squads in the new book though, but still no word on melta.

Just a historical nitpick:

3rd ed codex, you could have 2 plasma pistols for 5 points each in a 5 man squad.
4th ed allowed 6 point flamers as well, up to 2 in a 5 man squad.
5th is the odd man out, both with numbers, and the points paid for upgrades.

As someone who had to rip arms off of assault marines to keep them legal, I'm keenly aware of the changes over the editions.

Eihnlazer wrote:assault marines are going to be alot cheaper and so might acctually be worth taking again.

Im certainly happy that i'll get to use my 20+ jumppacks again.

They are going down 1 point per model and probably don't need to fork out the 10 points for a veteran sergeant. That's a saving of 20 points on a 10 man squad. Not insignificant, but you are probably going to want the vet serg on a melee unit for the LD bump...so you are only saving 10 point. This will not take them into the "Useful" category. Also, Bikes are what, 20ish points now? They get TL-bolters, a toughness boost and hammer of wrath every time they charge, not to mention melta and plasma guns. Attack bikes and Storm Talons also crowd the fast attack slot with better units overall.

Im pretty sure i read all marines are going down 2 points a peice and jump packs are also getting reduced in price. Vanguard vets pay 7 less per jump pack so a standard assault marine should be anywhere from 4-7 points cheaper from their old cost of, what was it, 22ppm?

Eihnlazer wrote:

Eihnlazer wrote:assault marines are going to be alot cheaper and so might acctually be worth taking again.

Im certainly happy that i'll get to use my 20+ jumppacks again.

They are going down 1 point per model and probably don't need to fork out the 10 points for a veteran sergeant. That's a saving of 20 points on a 10 man squad. Not insignificant, but you are probably going to want the vet serg on a melee unit for the LD bump...so you are only saving 10 point. This will not take them into the "Useful" category. Also, Bikes are what, 20ish points now? They get TL-bolters, a toughness boost and hammer of wrath every time they charge, not to mention melta and plasma guns. Attack bikes and Storm Talons also crowd the fast attack slot with better units overall.

Im pretty sure i read all marines are going down 2 points a peice and jump packs are also getting reduced in price. Vanguard vets pay 7 less per jump pack so a standard assault marine should be anywhere from 4-7 points cheaper from their old cost of, what was it, 22ppm?

ASM are currently 18 each, and are going to 17.

 Paradigm wrote:

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
Put a Chaplain with them and they can do work on (most) non dedicated CC units.

I think this is the key. ASM should target weak units like FW, guardsmen and anything up to necron warriors, but against anything with CC capability they are less useful, and you should use terminators to deal with this kind of squad.

I 100% agree with this statement. An additional use for Assault Squads is to deepstrike them in the other player's backfield. Just the threat of a few melta guns close to his vehicles or flamers close to his objectives will be enough to divert some of his units away from his main plan. Especially effective against Wraith heavy Necrons (Ideally you want him to pull back a few wraith units that were charging straight towards his squishy units) and Eldar (forcing him to put those Warp-Spiders in his back-field rather than your backfield -if you're Assault Marines deploy first- or perfect for chasing them away from your own units if he deployed his Warp-Spiders first).

Also good for making castled up armies think twice about breaking out. Good way to keep them bundled up in the deployment zone for a while longer. Not a good move against Tau though.

As a BA player the assault squad was never a punchy powerhouse.

They are a highly mobile unit that force the opponent to move in order react to them, or as a roadblock to something else.

In some games its even worthwhile to keep a 5 man assault squad in your gunline to jump out to stop a incoming charge.

The assault squad was a lot meaner in 5th when they could kill meqs and they didn't get to swing back.

Also, I really don't think deep striking really has the effects people claim it does. I know this, because I love it when my opponent deep strikes. It usually backfires for them.

I find that my opponents mostly ignore my BA assault squads in favor of shooting my more dangerous targets. Then when they somehow manage to do something useful it's too late to counter them with what's left. But then i don't throw them up the middle and hope for the best, i send mine up with other units that are better to draw fire and kill things. Playing BA i have an advantage in them being scoring, i don't really see a reason to take them in other marine armies except as personal choices because you like them, not because they are good.

ASM with the rumored new raven guard rules would be pretty top. IIRC all units get fleet and stealth.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or ASM with a Pedro Kantor in a drop pod list would be a good idea too. Pedro Kantors bubble of reroll on the ASM would be Top too.

 Senortaco wrote:
ASM with the rumored new raven guard rules would be pretty top. IIRC all units get fleet and stealth.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or ASM with a Pedro Kantor in a drop pod list would be a good idea too. Pedro Kantors bubble of reroll on the ASM would be Top too.

Not quite fleet, but use of jump packs in both movement assault phases, according to the rumors.

As a SM player - wait a few weeks.

As a DA player - Cheap suicide flamer squads with a combi flamer and drop pods have a niche use

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
As a SM player - wait a few weeks.

As a DA player - Cheap suicide flamer squads with a combi flamer and drop pods have a niche use

Based on the other responses, that sounds like the plan. I don't really want to play them as BA, but if the rumors are correct and I can Ally chapter tactics in the new book, I may actually build and paint them as Raven Guard and ally them in. I just don't want to have multiple codices because I'm a cheap bastard. But 1 book to rule them all and the fact that I'm just now building the models, I might as well go for it.