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I know I know, I'm the 1093rd person to attempt this but bear with me. The Cults just arent that good anymore, and they're not that good because Kelly fully expects you to use Combined arms with the Cults in your army. My way of thinking is no one wants to do that and it doesn't work. So here is my version of the Cults as if they were your main stay Troops choices.

Exalted Champions- For +15 points you may upgrade your Aspiring Champion/Sorceror to an Exalted Champion for +1 wound. (I put this in because if we have to be forced to challenge then at least give them a chance to win it)

Thousand Sons. 23 points each Sorceror is 45pts
Sorceror may upgrade to Mastery Level 2 for +25 points.
The Sorceror Commands- So long as a Sorceror is with a unit of Thousand Sons they may choose to expend 1 point of WarpCharge and choose from 1 of the following.
Annihilate- Thousand Sons bolters become Salvo 2.
Divine- The unit rerolls 1s to hit and to wound.
Forewarned- The unit rerolls 1s for all saves.

Khorne Berzerkers. 20 pts each
WS4 BS4 3A
AdamantiumWill
Furious Charge
Berzerk- While in Close Combat Khorne Berzerkers have FnP 5+

Noise Marines-
Same options and cost.
Ecstatic Noise- Each time a unit is killed by the Noise Marines place a token next to it For each token they gain a bonus as seen below.
1- Unit gains Fleet.
2-Unit gains +1 to their FnP roll, if no FnP then 6+
3-Unit Gains Rending


Nurgle Marines-
Same options and cost
All bolters and CC attacks have Poison special rule.
FnP 5+
Defensive Grenades

And of course all of these would transfer to the Terminators as well for X amount of points.

What do you guys think?

My suggestion for 1kson:
Thousand Sons. 23 points each Sorceror is 45pts
The Sorcerer Commands- So long as a Character with Psyker rule and Mark of Tzeentch is part of this unit, Thousand Sons may fire overwatch.
Apprentice Power- An aspiring sorcerer does not generate a power as outined in the BRB, instead they may choose one Primaris Power from any of the following disciplines: Biomancy, Divination, Telepathy, Pyromancy, Telekinesis, Tzeentch

I personally feel this would help many of their short comings. Prescience would allow the unit to deal more dmg in the firing phase, as well as the ability to use any psychic discipline better reflects the units fluff. Limiting them to only the primaris power also justifies the pts reduction.

I'd also drop the poison on the nurgle bolters, thats far to good to not have a points increase. That would literally allwo them to kill w/e they wanted, as well as reroll to wounds vs. t3, that is just to strong.

Well, I'm currently working on TS fandex, and I fix basic rubricae mostly by adding 6 full spell charts available to sorcs, +1 power (still ML1) and a ton of cheap magic upgrades with the same prices. And combi-weapon/heavy bolter options for 9+ squad size. ML2 for aspiring sorcerers is overboard - they are caled "Aspiring" for a reason.

As for Noises, I could propose Relentles instaed or in addition to Fleet - salvo weapon would prevent them from charging after shooting.

Poisoned bolters for palgue marines is too cool - this would increase their shooting damage by 50%, making them shootier than TS, whilr their role is to be tanky rather than killy. I could suggest, that plagues get FNP4+ once reduced to 1/2 squad size and 3+ once on 1/4 or 1/3

demontalons wrote:
I know I know, I'm the 1093rd person to attempt this but bear with me. The Cults just arent that good anymore, and they're not that good because Kelly fully expects you to use Combined arms with the Cults in your army. My way of thinking is no one wants to do that and it doesn't work. So here is my version of the Cults as if they were your main stay Troops choices.

Exalted Champions- For +15 points you may upgrade your Aspiring Champion/Sorceror to an Exalted Champion for +1 wound. (I put this in because if we have to be forced to challenge then at least give them a chance to win it)


Khorne Berzerkers. 20 pts each
WS4 BS4 3A
AdamantiumWill
Furious Charge
Berzerk- While in Close Combat Khorne Berzerkers have FnP 5+

And of course all of these would transfer to the Terminators as well for X amount of points.

What do you guys think?

Absolutely beautiful. No complaints from me.

demontalons wrote:

Thousand Sons. 23 points each Sorceror is 45pts
Sorceror may upgrade to Mastery Level 2 for +25 points.
The Sorceror Commands- So long as a Sorceror is with a unit of Thousand Sons they may choose to expend 1 point of WarpCharge and choose from 1 of the following.
Annihilate- Thousand Sons bolters become Salvo 2.
Divine- The unit rerolls 1s to hit and to wound.
Forewarned- The unit rerolls 1s for all saves.

I really like this. Just adding a small buff that really allows the Rubricae to show off a bit while escorting their Sorceror.

Not fussed by most of the other changes you suggested, except

demontalons wrote:

Noise Marines-
Same options and cost.
Ecstatic Noise- Each time a unit is killed by the Noise Marines place a token next to it For each token they gain a bonus as seen below.
1- Unit gains Fleet.
2-Unit gains +1 to their FnP roll, if no FnP then 6+
3-Unit Gains Rending

Why are my precious beloved Heavy Sonic Weapon troopers being relegated to Combat troops again? I really wish they would return to the firebases I knew them as back in the day. I would prefer to see something like 'Psychic Cacophony' returned, reducing Ld of units within 12" or 18". Especially handy when Pinning form the Blastmaster!

Imho thousand sons aren't that bad, they have a 3+ save in addition to a 4+ invulnerable save and also have fearless, making for a great troop unit. Their AP3 boltguns can be fired and then not prevent assaulting in the shooting phase, and the aspiring sorcerer's roll on the table of tzeentch is a very nice bonus, assuming you roll 3 or more. Don't forget the Aspiring sorcerer's force weapon either, which can be used to kill characters in challenges.

I'm not against the current cult troops in the codex. I actually think they have the right "feel" to them and after I watched some of Ailaros' battle reports with horde Berzerkers infiltrating I've played them with great success. 20 Berzerkers are a match for any foe, especially if they make it to CC.
Giving them more base attacks doesn't really balance it out, and I already think they are the sort of crazed zerkers that I've enjoyed fielding for a long time. They do, however, play a little different to the way they were in previous dexes.
Still not sure about the 1K's. They have a hard time competing with a lot of builds, but it's probably just until someone smarter than me figures out how to use them in a semi-competitive build.
The proposed rules look well-balanced and should work as an excellent house rule though.

The trick with the sons is just knowing what to do with them. Kill anything with a toughness of 4 or lower that moves. The unit excels at shooting up infantry, but really falls off in the face of MCs and vehicles. For that I take my own MCs and vehicles.

 ruricferrinwheel wrote:
The trick with the sons is just knowing what to do with them. Kill anything with a toughness of 4 or lower that moves. The unit excels at shooting up infantry, but really falls off in the face of MCs and vehicles. For that I take my own MCs and vehicles.

It excels at killing MEQs. It's terrible at killing Terminators or Horde units like Orks or Guard because each marine costs so much and they don't have any special weapons.

 SilentScreamer wrote:
Imho thousand sons aren't that bad, they have a 3+ save in addition to a 4+ invulnerable save and also have fearless, making for a great troop unit. Their AP3 boltguns can be fired and then not prevent assaulting in the shooting phase, and the aspiring sorcerer's roll on the table of tzeentch is a very nice bonus, assuming you roll 3 or more. Don't forget the Aspiring sorcerer's force weapon either, which can be used to kill characters in challenges.

They cost 50% more, cannot GtG, cannot run, cannot overwatch, have no grenades and are as effective against 5+ armour as regular marines are and slightly more effective against 3+ and 4+, considering they would be in cover anyway, as cover is abundant in 6e. 4++ is good, but for shooty unit it almost equal to aegis/ruin cover save which is much cheaper/free. Fearless isn't really any beneficial for a shooty unit with no grenades, as it allow them to be locked by cheap dreadnought/fiend/sentinel to the rest of the game, unles the Sorcerer have a staff and sick good luck with to-pen rolls. Their sorcerer have access to only three powers, which are chosen randomly, with one of them being absolutelly useless, primaris being effective against light infanttry (ones you do not want to shoot at for the reasons above), and the third being anti-tank/terminator linemaker (which don't stack with AP3 bolter fire either).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

demontalons wrote:

Khorne Berzerkers. 20 pts each
WS4 BS4 3A

Zerkers are allready good in melee with their 1+pistol+charge+rage=4 attacks on the charge and 3+ to hit most things. What need to be improved is their ability to reach melee - rhinos are almost useless with current disembarcation system, LRs a re too expencive and FW eagles and dreadclaws aren't allowed everywhere