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Greetings all,

A buddy & I are likely heading to a doubles tourney in about a month and a half and are trying to think of which of his armies would best compliment my Tzeentch Daemons.

for my 1000pts, I'm roughly looking at taking;
- LoC w/2x Greater + Staff of Change + Lv3 Div
- Prince w/Grimorie + Lv3 (likely Telepathy)
- 10 Horrors or Plaguebearers
- Screamers
- Flamers

Now the main drawbacks are that I only have a single HQ slot to work with - hence going for the Greater, as taking any Heralds would mean I get no MC's at all. (and I won't be able to get a proper Beast/Cavbus spam list going in time)
As well, each army treats their teammate's army as Allies of Convenience. Thus, even if my buddy brings his CSM's, I wouldn't be able to Divination the crap outa them

So I'm wondering what would be a better plan for my buddy's 1000pts; Dark Angels or stick to the Chaos Marines?

Remember that you do not have to choose your psychic discipline right now. You choose a table, roll, then choose another table, roll, then choose your last table and roll. If you get 2 decent divination powers, don't discount taking flickering fire of Tzeentch. If your LoC has precog on himself and casts a lvl 2 flickering fire. That is 3d6 shots re-rolling hits and wounds.

You only have 1 troop choice, does the tourney use force org?

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Remember that you do not have to choose your psychic discipline right now. You choose a table, roll, then choose another table, roll, then choose your last table and roll. If you get 2 decent divination powers, don't discount taking flickering fire of Tzeentch. If your LoC has precog on himself and casts a lvl 2 flickering fire. That is 3d6 shots re-rolling hits and wounds.

You only have 1 troop choice, does the tourney use force org?

I've never been impressed by Lore of Change on Big Bird. Going all-in with Div gives me roughly a 50/50 shot at landing the likes of Precog and/or Forewarning which make him plainly ridiculous. The only way he gets tanked is if he ends up rolling a 1,4,6 for his powers.
Plus without the added benefit of Tzheralds, I don't have enough shooting to limit the pain that Warpflame can cause.

His main role will be support battery & assault beatstick - Lore of Change doesn't help him do any of that unfortunately.


The Force Org mins for each player are;
1 HQ
1 Elite
1-3 Troops
1 Fast
1 Heavy

Each team can then share between them 1 additional Elite/Fast/Heavy slot.

Being forced to choose between either big guys or Heralds, I decided to go for the MC tag-team of Greater + Prince since the only really effective Herald build would be Beast/Cavbus rush and I won't have time to get such a list painted up!


My buddy is leaning towards CSM's, right now with a list looking like;
- winged DP w/Black Mace & Tzeentch
- 10x CSM's w/MoK, CCW's, Flamer, Khorne Icon
- 3x Nurgle Oblits
- Land Raider

I'm wondering if dropping the Land Raider would be wiser and then trim down the CSM's to get some more boots on the ground?

Legends tourney?

 Las wrote:
Legends tourney?

Yep, that's the one.

See ya there!

I too will be at this tourney. Between the two of you I see only 2 troop choices. That may be your biggest challenge.

Odds are 3/4 games will be objective based I feel so having more troop units will help win you more games.

 skycapt44 wrote:
I too will be at this tourney. Between the two of you I see only 2 troop choices. That may be your biggest challenge.

Odds are 3/4 games will be objective based I feel so having more troop units will help win you more games.

I'm thinking of maybe suggesting to my partner that he drop the Land Raider for more boots?
Also maybe going for MoN if he takes a mark, or would it be better to just run the Chaos Marines themselves as just bare-bones fire support? (thinking plasmas or meltas would be best bets)

How would an Axe of Blind Fury Jugger Lord w/Spawn escort stand up?
Or is the winged Black Mace DP decent enough to stand on his own? (baring in mind my partner won't be taking any psychic levels so as to avoid getting zapped by the Warpstorm table!)

My partner doesn't have any Hell Turkeys (shocking I know!), as he hates the model, but we've got access to most other things in the codex.



Honestly because of the way the HQ slot is divided, I think Daemons are better off just paying the minimum 'Troop Tax' and going for broke on the meaty options. Being forced to choose between MC's or Heralds is a tough choice!
Heralds are good and all, but squishy as hell and thus if Slay the Warlord comes into play, I'd probably end up giving that point away far too easily. A T6 Warlord on the other hand can take some solid punishment before potentially going down.

Right now I can use my half of the army as a balls-to-the-wall assault force between Screamers, a LoC & TzPrince to get into the enemy while my buddy's CSM's can sit back and pound away.

All I can say is, CSMs are quite possibly the worst troop choice in the entire game. I would junk the CSMs, add a few min squads of cultists, kick out the land raider, and load up on nurgle oblits. Usually I advocate Havocs instead, but both your armies will be very much "in your face." He should have 3 squads of oblits, and those deepstriking all around his army, while 3 big boys are closing in, is a tactic that makes my spine tingle, and would make your opponent a fool (at least in his eyes) to even try to target your troops.

Trust me, MoK CSMs in a land raider just doesn't work, I want it to work, I've tried it too many times, it's just an utter failure.

He can't take 3 squads of oblites as per the tournament rules. He only has one for sure and then they have to share the floating slot. I agree though oblites are great heavy support and two units would be nice. I think the cultists would do ok for objectives but they will need to hide and hide well. There are a lot of things that can make quick work of a cheap cultist unit.

I agree that the CSM aren't your best option. Maybe you could look at the DA option just to see what they could offer. Without the helldrake the CSM don't add much to the team TBH

True I forgot about the 1 heavy thing. Anyway, I would definitely run 2 oblit squads. Yes, cultists die easily, but who cares, they're dirt cheap. Plus, if your opponent has time to not worry about your big boys in their midst, you probably already lost.

 skycapt44 wrote:
He can't take 3 squads of oblites as per the tournament rules. He only has one for sure and then they have to share the floating slot. I agree though oblites are great heavy support and two units would be nice. I think the cultists would do ok for objectives but they will need to hide and hide well. There are a lot of things that can make quick work of a cheap cultist unit.

I agree that the CSM aren't your best option. Maybe you could look at the DA option just to see what they could offer. Without the helldrake the CSM don't add much to the team TBH

My buddy has 3 oblits and I can lend him 1 more to run 2 squads of 2, likely w/MoN for the toughness boost.
We have a unit of Pinkies who are running only 90pts and can go and squat on backfield objectives and play the 'go-to-ground' game for an easy 2++/3++ & re-rolling 1's.

If we look at DA's, what tends to be more competitive - Ravenwing or Deathwing?
I've been off the tourny scene basically since GK's crapped all over my Daemons... But with a new edition & re-worked codex, I'm hoping to have some fun again!

Deathwing in my opinion is more competitive. Using Beliel for termie troops seems pretty solid.

Thanks for the help guys!

My buddy has decided to relent and pick-up a Heldrake after realising a few things about it.
Hence we've decided to stick with the Daemon/CSM pairing which is also a bit cooler backstory-wise than Daemons suddenly going BFF with those silly Dark(Chaos)Angels...

Hopefully my dice won't decide to abandon me completely!
Looking forward to meeting you guys at the tourney!

Cheers!

Played in a doubles last weekend daemons and guard funnily enough, bad dice in the first game cost me dear, losing a very important herald to a 3 result on the warpstorm table (got brave and re rolled a 5 :(), then failed a few more tests and died off.

I was running
Fatey
3 heralds of tzeentch on disc, ml3 each one with grimoire other with portal (forgot about it :()

3 nurgling bases

8 screamers

Partner had 2 large blobs, 40 guys in each I think, autocannon lascannon and mortar HWT's 2 dettas.

The other two games we done very well on, ended up coming third even thanks to VP#s even though we only got 1 in the first game!