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Ummmm... I think you may need to go reading through the fluff again. 40k and "utopian" are about as far opposites of the scale as you can get.
Ultramar is a bit of an oddity - it's described as something of a utopia, but that's compared to the rest of the 40k universe. Its people still have to work hard, but they're better rewarded for their efforts.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ultramar
"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch
It's pretty hard to say that anything is good in the Imperium. The mass of the people live in slums, producing and consuming endlessly, almost like THX 1138. Gang wars erupt in the real bad parts (Necromunda).
I doubt there is much grass or forests left over after Terra became more of a capital. The supremely privileged, most likely Imperial advisors and bureaucrats, have probably secreted away little patches of luxury, like a tree or a mat of grassy sod.
But we never know, there are millions of.planets out there, amd some are undiscovered. Maybe what many races call a useless planet would be one capable of sustaining.life, but.light on inabitants or raw.materials. Such a place would be an alien Eden for many races, as they are mostly used to industry, cities, and brick and mortar. I set up a table.once.with all Fantasy pieces, as if they had found a new, primitive world to fight over. The natives hold no threat, it was a fight to.conquer a new world.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/19 11:51:56
Super Ready wrote: Ummmm... I think you may need to go reading through the fluff again. 40k and "utopian" are about as far opposites of the scale as you can get.
Ultramar is a bit of an oddity - it's described as something of a utopia, but that's compared to the rest of the 40k universe. Its people still have to work hard, but they're better rewarded for their efforts.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ultramar
Yes yes. I am aware of that. It is more of a dystopian. duh? 'There is only war' LIKE HELLO? lol.
But anyway. I am suppose to do a criticism after the submission of the essay. which is great if I am using the 40 backgournd.
I like the idea of forgeworld. as in. other planets get poluted and those buggers on Terra gets to live an easy life.
I want to hear about
- economic structure
- technology
Well. The Sisters of Battle provide nurses, for a lack of a better word, so they genuinely care about the subjects of the Emperor. There's also hospitals, obviously.
The arbiters uphold the law, so someone must care about law and order, otherwise it'd just be disorganised chaos.
The others, well, in certain BL novels, buses and trains are mentioned, so there is an organised civil-service, or private company(ies) that provide public services to the masses.
I realise that "In the grim darkness of the future, there is only war!", and 95% of all fiction is about those wars, but the average joe in the Imperium live a normal life; they wake up, have breakfast, get the bus to work, read the paper while at lunch, go to the pub after work, watch sports on the TV, or holoboxy-thing, go home, eat supper, discuss day with partner, and gossip about the Joneses next door, etc.
It also depends on the planet. I assume that being a working class, blue-collar chappy in a Hive World is probably like working in a Victorian city like London, or Manchester, during the Industrial Revolution. You wake up, go to work, work for 16 hours, try not to die while at work, come home, eat gruel, sleep 5 hours, wake up, go to work, contract lunch cancer from the pollutants in the air, etc., etc.
The majority of planets though are probably like 1st World countries. There's rich and poor, sure, but most people are happy and just get on with their lives.
There's bad people, there's good people. There's an organised government and civil services for these places. There's government buildings, hotels. schools, hospitals, transportation, shops, private businesses, charities, markets, play grounds, street cleaners, telephone repain people, contracted chocolate-bar logistic people... you get the point. It's normal life. It only gets nasty when you join the Guard, or a Choas cult starts a meeting in your fridge.
An Armour Save? No, never heard of it. Me? I play Imperial Guard.
Ah, I see. Well - the economic structure is pretty simple to sum up. People are expendable. Other resources like ships, planets, not so much... the big version of the rulebook also goes into some detail on how sprawling the Imperium is. Forces can be sent to wars that ended thousands of years ago because some paperwork got delayed, before you even factor in the vagaries of warp travel. As a result, there's a lot of wastage but the one resource nobody in power minds losing is people.
...well - except when it comes to the planetary tithe. Those men are supposed to be fighting, after all.
Technology is stagnant, partly as a result of the sprawling administration, but also because of the Machine Cult. Because current technology is seen as holy, any significant progress or innovation is viewed as heretical and dangerous, and is stamped out. Where "progress" is made, it's usually due to older technology from many thousands of years ago appearing in the form of an STC.
Tower75 wrote:the average joe in the Imperium live a normal life; they wake up, have breakfast, get the bus to work, read the paper while at lunch, go to the pub after work, watch sports on the TV, or holoboxy-thing, go home, eat supper, discuss day with partner, and gossip about the Joneses next door, etc.
It also depends on the planet. I assume that being a working class, blue-collar chappy in a Hive World is probably like working in a Victorian city like London, or Manchester, during the Industrial Revolution. You wake up, go to work, work for 16 hours, try not to die while at work, come home, eat gruel, sleep 5 hours, wake up, go to work, contract lunch cancer from the pollutants in the air, etc., etc.
The majority of planets though are probably like 1st World countries. There's rich and poor, sure, but most people are happy and just get on with their lives.
I've always picked up on this being the other way round - that there are many more working just about every waking hour with no real freedoms or time of their own. There are a few reasons - one is that there are a great many industrial/hive worlds, and the agricultural worlds designated to feed them must be working pretty damn hard as a result. Another is that the hive worlds are by definition going to be much MUCH more populated than farming worlds, so in terms of pure numbers of people, most of them are pretty crammed. Lastly, the powers-that-be (mostly the Inquisition) will want the general populace kept as busy as possible because the more free time they have, the more chance there is that the free thought and will that that encourages will lead to Chaos.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/19 12:09:10
"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch
Tower75 wrote: Well. The Sisters of Battle provide nurses, for a lack of a better word, so they genuinely care about the subjects of the Emperor. There's also hospitals, obviously.
The arbiters uphold the law, so someone must care about law and order, otherwise it'd just be disorganised chaos.
The others, well, in certain BL novels, buses and trains are mentioned, so there is an organised civil-service, or private company(ies) that provide public services to the masses.
I realise that "In the grim darkness of the future, there is only war!", and 95% of all fiction is about those wars, but the average joe in the Imperium live a normal life; they wake up, have breakfast, get the bus to work, read the paper while at lunch, go to the pub after work, watch sports on the TV, or holoboxy-thing, go home, eat supper, discuss day with partner, and gossip about the Joneses next door, etc.
It also depends on the planet. I assume that being a working class, blue-collar chappy in a Hive World is probably like working in a Victorian city like London, or Manchester, during the Industrial Revolution. You wake up, go to work, work for 16 hours, try not to die while at work, come home, eat gruel, sleep 5 hours, wake up, go to work, contract lunch cancer from the pollutants in the air, etc., etc.
The majority of planets though are probably like 1st World countries. There's rich and poor, sure, but most people are happy and just get on with their lives.
There's bad people, there's good people. There's an organised government and civil services for these places. There's government buildings, hotels. schools, hospitals, transportation, shops, private businesses, charities, markets, play grounds, street cleaners, telephone repain people, contracted chocolate-bar logistic people... you get the point. It's normal life. It only gets nasty when you join the Guard, or a Choas cult starts a meeting in your fridge.
Thanks for the info. The background of 40k is just so wide and huge.
It'd be great if someone can just focus on Terra itself Or even Ultamar. The kind of places you'd wanna be in if you are in the 40k universe.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Super Ready wrote: Ah, I see. Well - the economic structure is pretty simple to sum up. People are expendable. Other resources like ships, planets, not so much... the big version of the rulebook also goes into some detail on how sprawling the Imperium is. Forces can be sent to wars that ended thousands of years ago because some paperwork got delayed, before you even factor in the vagaries of warp travel. As a result, there's a lot of wastage but the one resource nobody in power minds losing is people.
...well - except when it comes to the planetary tithe. Those men are supposed to be fighting, after all.
Technology is stagnant, partly as a result of the sprawling administration, but also because of the Machine Cult. Because current technology is seen as holy, any significant progress or innovation is viewed as heretical and dangerous, and is stamped out. Where "progress" is made, it's usually due to older technology from many thousands of years ago appearing in the form of an STC.
Tower75 wrote:the average joe in the Imperium live a normal life; they wake up, have breakfast, get the bus to work, read the paper while at lunch, go to the pub after work, watch sports on the TV, or holoboxy-thing, go home, eat supper, discuss day with partner, and gossip about the Joneses next door, etc.
It also depends on the planet. I assume that being a working class, blue-collar chappy in a Hive World is probably like working in a Victorian city like London, or Manchester, during the Industrial Revolution. You wake up, go to work, work for 16 hours, try not to die while at work, come home, eat gruel, sleep 5 hours, wake up, go to work, contract lunch cancer from the pollutants in the air, etc., etc.
The majority of planets though are probably like 1st World countries. There's rich and poor, sure, but most people are happy and just get on with their lives.
I've always picked up on this being the other way round - that there are many more working just about every waking hour with no real freedoms or time of their own. There are a few reasons - one is that there are a great many industrial/hive worlds, and the agricultural worlds designated to feed them must be working pretty damn hard as a result. Another is that the hive worlds are by definition going to be much MUCH more populated than farming worlds, so in terms of pure numbers of people, most of them are pretty crammed. Lastly, the powers-that-be (mostly the Inquisition) will want the general populace kept as busy as possible because the more free time they have, the more chance there is that the free thought and will that that encourages will lead to Chaos.
Can you please elaborate more about the STC? and why is innovation heresy ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/19 12:09:44
Terra itself, I'm afraid, is just as dark if not darker than everywhere else. The planet is described as sprawling with Adeptus performing all kinds of errands and paperwork... and if you're not doing that, you're constantly on guard.
It's not the kind of place you could get away with goofing off or sleeping on the job - in fact that'd probably get you executed.
Honestly, I think the closest the galaxy has to a "happy" human world is one the Imperium hasn't discovered yet.
You may find more of what you're looking for by looking at the Tau. The worlds in their empire are SUPPOSED to be a utopia, but it's not so much a case of having total freedom - you have to show willing to sacrifice whatever is necessary to the Greater Good, and what with the class differences between Ethereals to Tau to incorporated races, there's definitely a case of some citizens being more equal than others. Then there's the question of how the Ethereals keep such a loyal sway over their populace to begin with - there are hints that this loyalty is induced in some way.
(added) STC stands for "Standard Template Construct". It's a template for creating technology that's given the Imperium several useful bits of kit, such as the Chimera, the Rhino, various Titans, spacecraft, the list goes on. True, original innovation meanwhile is seen as an affront to the Machine God's existing creations - and repairs and maintenance typically spend more time on following rituals and sacred procedures than on any actual mechanical work.
A lot of this is covered in the fluff that's in the big rulebook - I'm assuming you've not read this. Do grab a copy off a friend if you get the chance, it gives great insight into what the Imperium is really like.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/19 12:23:38
"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch
This is a tough assignment. From how the setting was described by the core designers, even the few aspects that could be argued as "good" are generally laced with a hidden darkness.
Take the Sisters Hospitallre mentioned by Tower75, for example - yes, on one hand they act as physicians, providing surgery and nursing aid to Imperial subjects. On the other hand, however, this care is partially reserved for the genocidal armies of the Imperial Guard and happens under the umbrella of an oppressive religion that spreads superstition, suspicion and racist/puritan sentiments. They also act as torturers within their own organisation as well as the Inquisition, and are raised as "wardens of the state" in an inhuman environment that turns children into soldiers.
Of course it ultimately also depends on the source one is looking at. As Gav Thorpe once mentioned, the setting exists in a multitude of different but overlapping versions in the minds of readers and writers, so fans who prefer a slightly less grimdark variant of the 41st millennium than the one promoted in the core material* will have free pick on various outsourced readings.
However, I for my part prefer the original material specifically because it is darker - because I regard this darkness as inextricably linked to the small patches of good. For just as every good deed seems connected to something bad (see example above), there are also few bad deed conducted solely out of maliciousness but because the individuals involved believe in the necessity of their terrible actions for the greater good. And given the Imperium's situation, some of them may well be without alternative indeed.
*:
Spoiler:
"The Imperium is home to countless billions of lost souls. The teeming masses of humanity throng the stars, but few have time to appreciate the majesty of the heavens. For the greater part of the human race, their only concern is a desperate struggle for survival.
All servants of the Imperium have a vocation that defies their existence, often alloted before they are even born. Pallid citizens toil day and night at thankless and futile tasks forced upon them by uncaring superiors, blind to the terrible truths that threaten Mankind from the void. Oblivious, they sacrifice their dreams on the altar of false hope, giving their all for the continueing survival of a decaying civilisation that cares not if they thrive or if they are ground to dust.
In the hab-complexes of the civilised worlds, the shuffle of sore-ravaged feet and the scratch of thermoquil upon vellum is punctuated by the thunder of distant war. Hunchbacked factotums and aged lickspittles slave endlessly under the unforgiving vigilance of Judicar-Prelates and Titheproctor Superians. Only a few hours' sleep is permitted each night, and even that is plagued by the grind of constant industry, for the incessant wars of the Imperium demand a heavy price. Drooling Ideosavants trade gibberish with Pendanticum, Dataslave and Stasis Clerk in a babel tongue which none truly understand. Even death is no escape; the remains of the faithful are reincarnated as servo-skulls so that they might serve the Imperium for eternity.
In the streets outside the hab-blocks and manufactorums, the Arbitrators enforce their unforgiving rule upon the desperate and the homeless. Feral children fight over the dead flesh of the fallen, their struggles lit only by flickering luminas set into crumbling masonry. Scapegoats, lepers, and pilgrims press and push in great queues that will last a lifetime, desperate in their quests for absolution they will never receive. Through this sickly gruel of flesh stride the privileged few, untouched by disease or the ravages of acidic rain. It is they who maintain the status quo for their own hidden ends, they who guide humanity itself. Some are pure of intent, some embody the corruption at the heart of the Imperium, but one thing is true for all - they care not for the fate of the common man."
Super Ready wrote: Terra itself, I'm afraid, is just as dark if not darker than everywhere else. The planet is described as sprawling with Adeptus performing all kinds of errands and paperwork... and if you're not doing that, you're constantly on guard.
It's not the kind of place you could get away with goofing off or sleeping on the job - in fact that'd probably get you executed.
Honestly, I think the closest the galaxy has to a "happy" human world is one the Imperium hasn't discovered yet.
You may find more of what you're looking for by looking at the Tau. The worlds in their empire are SUPPOSED to be a utopia, but it's not so much a case of having total freedom - you have to show willing to sacrifice whatever is necessary to the Greater Good, and what with the class differences between Ethereals to Tau to incorporated races, there's definitely a case of some citizens being more equal than others. Then there's the question of how the Ethereals keep such a loyal sway over their populace to begin with - there are hints that this loyalty is induced in some way.
(added) STC stands for "Standard Template Construct". It's a template for creating technology that's given the Imperium several useful bits of kit, such as the Chimera, the Rhino, various Titans, spacecraft, the list goes on. True, original innovation meanwhile is seen as an affront to the Machine God's existing creations - and repairs and maintenance typically spend more time on following rituals and sacred procedures than on any actual mechanical work.
A lot of this is covered in the fluff that's in the big rulebook - I'm assuming you've not read this. Do grab a copy off a friend if you get the chance, it gives great insight into what the Imperium is really like.
I have the book right beside me now. I just havent had the chance to really sit down and read the whole fluff section. :(
Thnaks so much!
AND I THOUGHT LIFE ON TERRA IS SUPPOSE TO BE GOOD.
Ultramar is much better - but still not as free as modern society. Imagine, if you will, a medieval sort of arrangement, where you have peasants who toil the fields all day long but have a rewarding family and home life for a few hours when the day is done. That daily grind is there but there is a counter side to it.
Now add 40k technology and cities and take away rampant disease and pestilence, and perhaps switch out field-toiling for pen-pushing or whatever other tasks a worker could feasibly do. This is how I see Ultramar. The Ultramarines are, of course, the Knights tasked with protecting the land and there are noble classes who govern the peasants as well.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/19 12:44:36
"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch
It varies by planet, but in almost every case, there's always a flaw that would prevent the planet from being called a utopia. Just browse the wikia and go through planet by planet and you'll see all sorts of different things, including an ocean-filled planet where life is comfortable but hard-working and short, or a planet that's completely nomadic and more like a protectorate than a member of the Imperium, where warlords constantly travel for a plant to sell to the Imperium. Etc etc.
The Contqual sector became rather prosperous. It resulted in Slaanesh corrupting the sector
I agree with Super Ready. The Imperium of Man is a dystopia by and large. It wouldn't make for a good analysis of a utopia with some criticism, it'd be more like analysing a dystopia with some justifications. So as Super Ready said, the Tau Empire might be more of a shot at the former. It's a less barbaric regime, and it's an inclusive empire, unlike the Xenophobic Imperium. They have a sound grasp of technology, and the Tau are less susceptible to Chaos incursion due to their lack of presence in the Warp. However, the criticisms can come from the Ethereals' mysterious ability to command servitude, their knowledge of the Warp but their enforced ignorance of it, and their ever-malleable ideology of 'the greater good' which they also enforce like a religion, and the Caste system social structure.
If you want to go one better, try the Farsight Enclaves, who rebel against the Tau Empire due to Commander Farsight's realisation of those very criticisms. Commander Farsight doesn't uphold the Caste system, having an Earth Caste bodyguard, but the downsides are that it's a very martial society and their Commander is in fact using a life-extending daemonsword which he doesn't realise, despite living for over three centuries.
The Kasrkin were just men. It made their actions all the more astonishing. Six white blurs, they fell upon the cultists, lasguns barking at close range. They wasted no shots. One shot, one kill. - Eisenhorn: Malleus
i think a lot of people in this thread havent read the inquisitor novels. It is possible to have a ver comfortable and luxourious life in the imperium, if you're rich.
Pimp technology, slaves, financial and civic stability, you can live very well indeed in the imperium.
xruslanx wrote: i think a lot of people in this thread havent read the inquisitor novels. It is possible to have a ver comfortable and luxourious life in the imperium, if you're rich.
Pimp technology, slaves, financial and civic stability, you can live very well indeed in the imperium.
Well wouldn't the rich ones be a minority in this case then.
And the Inner Party live very well compared to the Outer Party and the Proles in George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four. The Alphas and Betas live very well compared to the lower castes in Aldous Huxley's Brave New World. Does that diminish the fact that both novels are dystopian? No, it's kind of the fething point.
The Kasrkin were just men. It made their actions all the more astonishing. Six white blurs, they fell upon the cultists, lasguns barking at close range. They wasted no shots. One shot, one kill. - Eisenhorn: Malleus
You start at the Stalin level evil Tau and work your way up to "Words do not describe" level evil Dark Eldar.
It's one of the great things about 40k, everyone is unspeakably evil.
Even the Salamanders are genocidal fanatics.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/20 09:51:26
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Kain wrote: You start at the Stalin level evil Tau and work your way up to "Words do not describe" level evil Dark Eldar.
It's one of the great things about 40k, everyone is unspeakably evil.
Even the Salamanders are genocidal fanatics.
wait what? The Salamanders? what did they do?
I thought out of all the legions. they are the one who cares the most for civilian population.
I too am curious about this statement. Everything I know about the Salamanders tells me how they are the "Paladins" of the 40k world: they will do everything in their power to protect the civilians of the Imperium and if they can't because of their mission, they won't be happy but orders are orders.
And yes, I'm sure you already know by now, but life on Holy-Terra sucks. The head office of the Administratum literally spans a continent, it has plenty of shanky towns populated by pilgrims that wanted to visit the Holy-Terra and afterwards had no way or place to go, it pretty much sucks.
If you want some idea of the everyday life, read the Eisenhorn books. It offers so much information about the daily life of a civilian or other books with Inquisition. Most offer some tid-bit about life on planet X or Y. Some of them are pretty darn good for the "Regular Joe", even "normal" considering it's the GRIMDARK we are talking about.
Oh man, I just remembered a planet I "visited" in my Dark Heresy RPG sessions. We were playing the Harlock campaign and we visited a planet that was... original. It was a "fiscal paradise", a planet that avoided paying the tithe and as a result there were lots of important people with a residence there, including Inquisitors. The "peasants" had one heck of a life, my hive noble Arbitres was stunned with the wealth around him
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/08/20 10:36:24
"Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth! These are the truths of this world! Surrender to these truths, you pigs in human clothing!" - Satsuki Kiryuin, Kill la Kill
Look at the Salamanders from the other side - you're on a planet that had no contact from the imperium for 500 years, some guy turns up and says 'hey, sign up for the imperium'. Your world leaders say - 'Thanks, but no thanks - we're happy as we are'. The imperium says 'it's not a choice' and begin to invade. You manage to fend off the first guard attacks - due to having some form of tech from old night - good guns or something.
Then the imperium send in the angry, red eyed, jet black superhumans in super armour who burn everything and everyone until your planet gives up/is destroyed.
Or - say your world leaders are good friends with the Tau - or have trade relations with eldar. Those same marines 'angry, red eyed, jet black superhumans in super armour who burn everything and everyone' turn up and wreck your allies to extinction. Don't like it? tough, its agree or be burnt.
There are no good factions in 40k. They are all xenophobic, genocidal maniacs. Its why I like 40k.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/20 10:42:32
Its because ordinance is still a word.
However, firing ordinance at someone isn't nearly as threatening as firing ordnance at someone.
Ordinance is a local law, or bill, or other form of legislation.
Ordnance is high caliber explosives.
No 'I' in ordnance.
Don't drown the enemy in legislation, drown them in explosives.
They might safe civilians but they don´t give a flying feth about anything else and would gladly destroy a whole civilisation of non-hostile xenos just like every other SM Chapter.
Kain wrote: You start at the Stalin level evil Tau and work your way up to "Words do not describe" level evil Dark Eldar.
It's one of the great things about 40k, everyone is unspeakably evil.
Even the Salamanders are genocidal fanatics.
wait what? The Salamanders? what did they do?
I thought out of all the legions. they are the one who cares the most for civilian population.
They sure aren't nice if you're aliens.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Also depends on what you're reading. I remember the short story "Know Thine Enemy" from Gav Thorpe (contained in the Dark Imperium anthology) where a Salamanders Captain was close to powerfist-slapping a flimsy Imperial Guard Lieutenant because he dared to suggest that his men take over the watch to allow the Marines some rest. Fortunately the Chaplain intervened and held him back, else the Guard platoon may have been a junior officer short.
I like how PredaKhaine suggests a change of perspective, and it remembers me of a designer's statement from an old issue of White Dwarf concerning the Adepta Sororitas:
"By the standards of the 21st century, these girls are fanatical zealots, but in the context of the 41st millennium, they're paragons of virtue whose every action is a manifestation of the divine will of the God-Emperor of Mankind."
And speaking as a loyal servant of the Imperium: Why should we care about the Xenos? The Xenos are evil. The Xenos hunted the humans, turned us into slaves, killed us for Sport, they deserve to die, all of them! If they look like peaceful it's all a deception!
It's a good thing the Angels of Death protects us from the evil Xenos! Burn them, burn them all!
From a loyal servant of the Imperium, the Salamanders are good, ofc. Why wouldn't they be? They protect normal and average people like them and kill the bad guys.
In short, I completely agree that it's all a matter of perspective.
Oh, and Lynata, that is very true. With so many authors, there's no way we are not getting some inconsistencies here and there, but that example in particular is very interesting: it basically tells us how even in the Salamanders, those paragons of justice and good among the Imperium of Men, there are still some A-holes, it's not a 100% perfect breed.
Heck, after reading the Salamander's books, the Tome of Fire, we really see that.
Completely off-topic, all because of my curiosity: Lynata, what's your job? I can't help but wonder every time I read one of your posts. They all look so perfectly written and almost always lengthy and with a good explanation. Sorry, just damn curious, I'm betting on professional writer or something like that
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/08/20 19:14:21
"Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth! These are the truths of this world! Surrender to these truths, you pigs in human clothing!" - Satsuki Kiryuin, Kill la Kill
TheDraconicLord wrote:Completely off-topic, all because of my curiosity: Lynata, what's your job? I can't help but wonder every time I read one of your posts. They all look so perfectly written and almost always lengthy and with a good explanation. Sorry, just damn curious, I'm betting on professional writer or something like that
Damn, you're good!
I'm under NDA, though, so I shouldn't go into any details.
The "best" worlds in the Imperium, so-called "Paradise Worlds" are the concept of "Eden Planets" that commonly pop up in sci-fi. Weather is always nice, it's tropically warm, but not muggy, sun is nice, nice beaches, all that sort of thing.
These planets, though, are reserved for the ultra-wealthy of the Imperium, Lord Inquisitors, very-high-ranking Administratum personnel and high-ranking members of the Ecclesiarchy. Anyone else who lives there is some sort of servant-class maid, cabana boy, drink mixer, prostitute, masseuse, etc.
And absolutely nowhere in the Imperium do you enjoy something like "civil liberties". Some planets might be a bit more liberal than others, and some may even be democratically-run... but groups like the Ecclesiarchy, the Inquisition, the Munitorum and the Administratum don't really care what your local planetary laws are.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
There are multiple planets that are kept pristine with full eco systems and all the good technology like juvnant systems where you can be kept young far past your expected life duration.
These eden planets are kept around as per the end of the 3rd Grey Knights novel as an incentive for a lot of the higher ups to toe the imperial line. If they obey and do as they were asked i.e. kill the whoever, pay the imperial tithe on time and with bonuses, they can potentially retire to such an eden planet where they can live in mansions, have good clean environments, and even sensual young lasses/lads to entertain them and so forth.
Of course, the downside happens when the local slaneshi cult is discovered when they play a bit too hard and then everyone gets burned as a heretic.
But that's not necessarily a bad thing! Between Juvnant treatments, your tenants may be around for a very long time, gotta make room on eden for newcomers afterall
+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
TheDraconicLord wrote:Completely off-topic, all because of my curiosity: Lynata, what's your job? I can't help but wonder every time I read one of your posts. They all look so perfectly written and almost always lengthy and with a good explanation. Sorry, just damn curious, I'm betting on professional writer or something like that
Damn, you're good!
I'm under NDA, though, so I shouldn't go into any details.
But ... thank you.
It's classified knowledge. In other words 'top secret'. Like you know Lynata would have to kill you if told.
Lynata is a spy ;P. Either that or the NDA is taken very seriously that Lynata would have to take your life hehe .
Then again i'm just weird to make up such jokes .
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I kind of fell out of 40k due to everything being overly grim-dark. At least orks have humor (thank god). I'll admit some of the aesthetic is still nice but i can't help but think in some cases like the over-sized terminator armor making some space marines look like a gigantic baby (at least in some renderings) being a turn off. There's nothing wrong with over-the-top but i enjoyed 'dawn of war 1' for its cheese and camp too. Maybe 40k just tried to become to realistic for me. It became less about a librarian knocking the head off a nob with a power staff and listening to the ork head scream obscenities at him as it flew 200 feet away and his voice became a whisper.
Anyway 40k is probably an alright place on some agri-worlds. Nobody says you have to hate your life even if your society makes you want to. 40k is similar i'm sure. I mean i'm sure their lives are under strain but some enjoyment can be had. It's an odd sort of society to us but sometimes it works. I guess we just wouldn't understand this sort of thing but it's worked for 10,000 years apparently (well not really but it existed that long) so not everything could be terrible. Right?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/21 22:07:48
Super Ready wrote: Ummmm... I think you may need to go reading through the fluff again. 40k and "utopian" are about as far opposites of the scale as you can get.
Ultramar is a bit of an oddity - it's described as something of a utopia, but that's compared to the rest of the 40k universe. Its people still have to work hard, but they're better rewarded for their efforts.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ultramar
Yes yes. I am aware of that. It is more of a dystopian. duh? 'There is only war' LIKE HELLO? lol.
But anyway. I am suppose to do a criticism after the submission of the essay. which is great if I am using the 40 backgournd.
I like the idea of forgeworld. as in. other planets get poluted and those buggers on Terra gets to live an easy life.
I want to hear about
- economic structure
- technology
that kind of stuff. (;
Just get a discussion going on!
Thanks!
What if you look other races for utopian society?
For example orks' kultur is very much like an utopian. In many ways similiar to star trek's human society.
Every time I hear "in my opinion" or "just my opinion" makes me want to strangle a puppy. People use their opinions as a shield that other poeple can't critisize and that is bs.
If you can't defend or won't defend your opinion then that "opinion" is bs. Stop trying to tip-toe and defend what you believe in.
FOR THE DARK GODS 
Word Bearers 6000 Points
"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch 
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