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First off, I will put out the disclaimer that i realize T-34's are sub-optimal under the new H&C rules, but I choose to use them anyway!

All right, so I have been collecting a pretty big soviet force, and I am trying to decide where to go, I currently have 21 T-34's (can be either variant), about 4 platoons worth of SMG infantry (a company +, or split into two company -) and enough Rifle/MG teams to make almost two full companies.

After playing my first game and starting to figure out the limitations of trying to take out dug in veteran infantry, i realized i need to add a couple of tricks to my kit bag. So I want to add in some spetznaz recon in looted german half tracks (full platoon size). Also, after feeling the wrath of my buddies pak40's, i thought it might be a good idea to add in the motorized AT company with 4 Zis-2's towed by allied M3 half tracks. I have also fallen in love with the tactic of mounting tank riders on my tanks, driving up into the enemy's grill, and unloading an infantry assault on them after a round of getting shot by all my tank MG's and the ROF 3 SMG's.

So I guess here is my question
1. Spetznas in a tank batallion or a fwd detachment, is it worth the points and a good combat multiplier?
2. Tank rider SMG companies, with the special russian rule giving them a 3+ save, why isnt everyone doing this tactic? Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that the infantry basically retain the normal infantry save and are moving faster than if they were foot slogging it, so whats the drawback?
3. Zis-2's/3's, is it worth towing them to keep them up with a tank advance, or is the transport not worth the cost? Also, is it better to take the zis3 artillery company in the FWD Detachment (not an option for tank company sadly) so that they can be fired bombardment AND as a direct fire AT weapon?

So I am happy with my base of T34 horde for my army, I'm just trying to flush out the support around it. Should I keep trying to get better with using tank riders? Or go normal infantry? Or drop infantry alltogether? Will recon and some AT guns help round out my tank list a little better? Or should I be focusing on making a more Combined arms list with the Red Bear FWD Detachment lists?

Hello

I don't play soviets but I have played against them a lot so I will see if I can help.

1. Spetsnaz are well worth the points. A move before the game, if it plans out well you can get a first turn charge off and that can be game winning.

2. Personally 3+ save or not I wouldn't have tank riders on the back of tanks. They will just get hosed by HMG or MG fire.

3. Zis-3 don't need to be towed as they can move 6 inches as turn anyway and that way they can shot while moving.

Personally I don't like taking infantry in a Tank Company, especially with the amount of tanks you can get in a soviet list I don't think it's needed.

I would look as a bucket load of tanks, some recon and something with breakthrough gun so help remove the infantry, maybe look at the Su-122 doubled up with the recon to dig out infantry. With volley fire and the recon removing Gone To Ground that should help a lot with your problems with infantry.

Hope that helps

Ben

Soviet BTG's are awful to face if you have a veteran dug infantry, it's literally a hot knife through butter.

Soviets have amazing stuff, the T34-85 is just great.

At least one unit with Breakthrough gun and one with no Hen and Chicks seems to be the way to go with Soviets in Red Bear lists.

IS-2s and ISU-122s share both features on the same model.

T34-85s are great but you must take some variety with your armour.

1. Spetsnaz rock! Best recon unit in the whole game, IMHO.

2. I don't like to pile guys on the back of my tanks. It puts too many "eggs in one basket", YMMV so if it works you then by all means keep doing it.

3. Heavy Mortars. The best arty option the Russians have and it's also easy on the wallet. Spetsnaz lift GtG on the Pak40s, Heavy Mortars take'em out.

Russians don't get to take a lot of units. On average my Russian army had 4 platoons and a 6 platoon army felt huge! I always preferred the Forward Detachment list as it lets you take a solid platoon of tanks and a solid platoon of infantry an that gives you a lot of flexibility, and that list has a lot of good choices for support! You should also take a look at flamethrowers and flame-throwing tanks..

1. The Spetsnaz are definitely a must have.

2. Nothing wrong with Tank-rider SMG infantry. You have to get close to use them and they're good at protecting their charges against infantry assaults.

3.I think assault-guns would be best as others have pointed out; anything with BTG and mobile will help dig out dug-in enemy infantry and keep the advance going.

I have 21 T-34's as well and I use armored cars for my recon or a short Razvedki platoon. AA to cover my armor, plus some SU-100's to snipe the enemy heavy armor.

Also, flame-thrower teams are good choice as well. I have some in several variant lists of mine. However as others have posted, the flexibility of the Peredovoye Otryad is second to none in Red Bear as far as armor and infantry combined arms go.

guidsgjg wrote:


So I guess here is my question
1. Spetznas in a tank batallion or a fwd detachment, is it worth the points and a good combat multiplier?
2. Tank rider SMG companies, with the special russian rule giving them a 3+ save, why isnt everyone doing this tactic? Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that the infantry basically retain the normal infantry save and are moving faster than if they were foot slogging it, so whats the drawback?
3. Zis-2's/3's, is it worth towing them to keep them up with a tank advance, or is the transport not worth the cost? Also, is it better to take the zis3 artillery company in the FWD Detachment (not an option for tank company sadly) so that they can be fired bombardment AND as a direct fire AT weapon?

1. They can be worth the points if you intend to infiltrate but the small 100 pts unit is really brittle and can only do one job. I like to sometimes use the bigger 5 man team as elite infantry. The recon cars can cover more area and for pushing back ambushes and they can threaten things with their AT rifles and mgs.

2. Well one hit on the tank means every team on riding on it has to take a 3+ save. And trained T-34s can get hit a lot. The other problem with the tank riders is that they carry no antitank weapons, so assaulting tank teams are a big threat to them. But you can infiltrate forward a T-34 plutoon with tank riders on it.

3. The zis-3 artillery with halftracks is deemed very good as it is cheap and pours out tremendous firepower and has the speed to quickly get the volley fire rule going.

Ok so what I'm gathering from the responses;
Spetznaz are almost a must
MOAR tanks is better than having infantry, or YMMV on SMG tank riders
Take a few heavy's with BTG as anti infantry/anti heavy armor
Zis-3's arent as important as MOAR tanks?

I don't know how to explain this easily but when pushing around the T-34 tankovy your biggest weakness lies in the T-34s and not the support. The T34 is a light tank by latewar standards and both variants (76 and 85) come with a combination of rules and abilities that make them both bad and very overcosted. The landlease tanks are also crappy but are very cheap and can reach incredible mass on the table so they are quite good value. As an attacker with tankovy, you are basically trading casualties for board position. So make sure you bring a lot of “cash”.

My rule of thumb when building tankovy is a minimum of 3 tank units. Always. These can be two combat companies and something heavier from support or lcombat companies like valentines, lees and matildas. This means one can cover the other two while they advance or you can threaten multiple objectives without having to pull something back. Something like SU-100 works for the overwatch role. The reason for more you maneuver with the tankovy the less damage you do, the less you kill of his guys, the more punishment they give you over the game. The tankovy is not an attrition force so you can't really chase the opponents distractions. Your guys can only do damage in short ranges and when all of them stand still. I found that 8 tank units in hub to hub formation was the most effective. The rest of the force should round up to an even platoon count but SU-122, some cheap artillery (I mainly use a minium katjusha with the 37 mm AA for pinning) and recon are really nice to have, if you can get them.

To be successful with the T-34, in my experience, then you have take fights to his objectives, very fast to force the other guy to commit his units. This means coming up a plan at deployment and sticking to it rigorously. Decide the fastest route there. Sometimes moving at the double and hoping the other guy fails his firepower checks is the way to do it. The balls to the walls aggression this type of list requires puts a lot in demand from the player who pushes it. You have no ingame crutches to rely on with the tankovy like useful rules or combos so it takes a lot of practice to get most of right.