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Hello All!

I understand Vallejo may be a highly discussed topic, but I haven't found a whole lot of information regarding the comparison of Tamiya & Vallejo paints.

A little bit of background: I'm currently working on an Imperial Guard army, after a 10 year hiatus from the hobby. I use Tamiya paints for the uniforms, armor, boots, leathers, etc. and GW paints for the metallics and skin tones. Overall, I am happy with the results. My Tamiya XF paints achieve the matte finish I want and mixing and thinning them is no issue at all. I can say the same about the GW paints I use as well. However, I don't like the fact that I end up having to waste a lot of paint to get the results I want. For me the waste comes in the form of pots drying out (even with good maintenance of them) for both Tamiya & GW. My Tamiya paints are constantly having their pigments sink to the bottom, and as a result I have to stir them (shaking well will do the trick sometimes, but not always), losing further paint as a result.

So, I did a bit of research and decided to take a go with Vallejo paints, as they seemed to have the least amount of negative feedback from users all over the internet. I bought around 35 bottles from the Model Color Range. I love that Vallejo has a massive range of colors, the dropper bottles prevent any serious waste and allow me to mix ratios with great accuracy.

However, I'm having issues with the consistency and finish of the paints. I've tried thinners, water, and even putting little glass beads in the bottles to function as agitators to get the pigments better mixed when I thoroughly shake them. No matter what I've tried, the paint always seems to dry like a thin layer of latex or plastic and doesn't seem to fully adhere to the model, even with multiple coats. Because of this "latex" finish, it eventually hides many details as I build up layers with shades and highlights. After about 3 days of experimentation on 6 or 7 guardsmen with multiple paints, I got so frustrated that I threw them all into a bath of simple green. In retrospect I should have used them as an example of what I'm experiencing.

My questions to the Vallejo painters are: do you ever experience this with their paints? Am I doing something wrong? What are your tips and advice when handling their paint? At this point the only thing I'm thinking might change that is using a Vallejo primer instead of GW's Chaos Black spray.

Tamiya painters out there: What have your experiences been when using paints from other lines?

Any recommendations, advice or feedback from you guys is greatly appreciated!

I find that i usually have to thin it quite a bit, but never had that much problem with the "latex" film

I do however have problem with there blacks. so it may depend on the color.

Also GW primers are terrible.

Edit: I airbrush and brush paint as well, and thin with water

How much do you typically thin your paints? I find that I either thin the Vallejo too much, or not enough, and I get inconsistent coats as a result.

Is there a black primer you could recommend?

Also, I'm only brush painting at the moment, but I'll be attempting to teach myself how to airbrush when I'm ready to paint vehicles.

I thin just before milky constancy because i do like a slightly thicker paint ( but that is personal preference) i also paint about a drop at a time

For primers (rattle cans) i like using auto primers from auto zone.

Its a cheaper one that cost about 3-4$ and comes in Flat black, and Flat grey (the black is a bit glossy though so YMMV try a test piece and see if you like it)
Others iv seen suggested is the krylon ones

Airbrushing is awesome and is worth learning but it gets expensive quickly. (about 200-300 for the set up for starting is expected)

Without pics its hard to diagnose. Additionally if you find paint that works why switch.? And finally if paint adherence is a problem then you need to prime differently.

Ps: gw chaos black primer is pure snake oil. Krylon for example has been in business like 80 years? Their sole business is making paint as far as I know. So the idea that a hobby company offers a superior aerosol product for priming seems unlikely. But don't take my word for it. If you like chaos black and it works for you, who am I to Gainsay you.

I was interested in "diversifying" my color palette as Tamiya's range is quite limited if you want to expand. Additionally, Tamiya paint dries quite quickly which can be a bit of an annoyance when you're painting fine details with detail brushes even when you thin it. Nothing is more annoying than getting in to position to paint eyes only to find out the paint has dried by the time you attempt to make your strokes.

I think my main reasons for the switch was to see if I could find a product that produced the effect that I liked with Tamiya but didn't have it's drawbacks. Additionally, I've been trying to find some suitable greens, browns, etc. in preparation for tank painting, as I'm trying to find some shades that differ slightly from the uniforms of the soldiers but still tie in with the army. I'm somewhat interested in using RLM colors (would have had to do lots of mixing with Tamiya) for my armor and Vallejo also seems to produce quite a bit of them.

As for the adherence issue, it hasn't been a problem with Tamiya or GW, just Vallejo. As you've mentioned, I'm beginning to suspect the culprit may be the primer if Vallejo is as top notch as many people claim it to be. I was considering Vallejo's thinner or Testors Universal Acrylic Thinner, but I've got Tamiya X20A Acrylic thinner, so would changing that really make any difference if they're all for acrylic paint?

Additionally, here are some shots of my work with my Tamiya/GW setup just so those reading don't think I'm a complete finger painter

Give Army Painter Primers a try. I switched a few years ago and haven't looked back. Good coverage without hiding detail.

I have Vallejo Game Colors and have found they are inconsistent regarding viscosity throughout the range. Most colors are fine, but the occasional "What is this?!?" Crops up. If you don't use a wet palette I suggest doing so.

Good luck and take care

Edit. I recently added tamiya's clear paints to my arsenal. They are fantastic, but take a fair amount of getting used to them.

Thank you guys for the input! I think I may consider Army Painter primer; for some reason I'm a bit nervous using a "regular" primer. Something feels too industrial about it to me but that's just total speculation. If there's any additional paint advice you guys have, please share if you like!

If your paint is drying before applying there are two things you can do that I can think of (separately):

1: Create a wet pallet that you put your paint on while working. Mine consists of Glad-ware, sponges, tissue paper topped by parchment baking paper. I have some paint a week old and still wet

2: Add a drop or two of drying retarder. This is a specific type of product that extends the drying time of paint. Careful that you don't get a gloss or semi gloss retarder. Get a matte kind.

The problem with regular thinners is that they only thin...they so nothing to extend drying/working time. So you can have the best thinner but it will still dry out within its normal timeframe.

Hope those tips help!

 TheMeanDM wrote:
If your paint is drying before applying there are two things you can do that I can think of (separately):

1: Create a wet pallet that you put your paint on while working. Mine consists of Glad-ware, sponges, tissue paper topped by parchment baking paper. I have some paint a week old and still wet

2: Add a drop or two of drying retarder. This is a specific type of product that extends the drying time of paint. Careful that you don't get a gloss or semi gloss retarder. Get a matte kind.

The problem with regular thinners is that they only thin...they so nothing to extend drying/working time. So you can have the best thinner but it will still dry out within its normal timeframe.

Hope those tips help!

His paint was drying because he was using tamiya paints which are alcohol? based and dries very quickly

its probably best not to use it in a wet pallet though you could try (they are really as easy as above to make and is good for your vallejo and even gee dub paints)

The pigment consistency with Vallejo seems to be a real problem for me as well. Some of the range seems near unusable(their yellows and metals in particular). Its not really a thinning issue though, the paint will come out as chunks of pigment sitting in a white medium, even after a good 10-15 mins of shaking the bottle.

That said the rest of the range has been excellent for me, I wouldn't go without their range of blues through to purple, greens, browns, greys and oranges. Their reds seem a bit lacking as well, not from consistency though, I just find the Blood Red from GW a bit more vibrant than the equivelant one from Vallejo.

 vossyvo wrote:
The pigment consistency with Vallejo seems to be a real problem for me as well. Some of the range seems near unusable(their yellows and metals in particular). Its not really a thinning issue though, the paint will come out as chunks of pigment sitting in a white medium, even after a good 10-15 mins of shaking the bottle.

VGC Metals? They're not the best yeah. Try VMA metals and you won't go back. Except maybe gold... but Vallejo Liquid Gold is by far the best gold anyway. VGC Yellows (and oranges) I found needed a good stirring - I use a $4 milk frother from china/ebay, works a charm - as you say, shaking just isn't enough. They actually have good coverage when properly stirred which is a huge surprise after the initial "wtf is this gak" response I had.

VGC Metals? They're not the best yeah. Try VMA metals and you won't go back. Except maybe gold... but Vallejo Liquid Gold is by far the best gold anyway. VGC Yellows (and oranges) I found needed a good stirring - I use a $4 milk frother from china/ebay, works a charm - as you say, shaking just isn't enough. They actually have good coverage when properly stirred which is a huge surprise after the initial "wtf is this gak" response I had.

Nice Idea, I'd considered what the OP said about getting a ball bearing inside to help agitate when shaking but never thought of a milk frother. How did you get the frother into the bottle? or did you empty it into something else first?

This is the item I bought. I just clipped off the guff at the bottom until it was just a basic L shape, which fit in the bottle easily (after you take the top bit off the bottle ofc).

Vallejo paint is much thinner than GW paint. As such it isn't really a surprise that pigments settle over time.
It's recommended to have a paint mixer - and to switch that thing off before you remove it from the bottle! =]

For thinning the Vallejo paint, I'd use their thinner if the Tamiya thinner gives problems. While different manufacturers similar products are likely to be compatible, you know that paint and matching thinner of one manufactuer are compatible.

Whoa, lots of comments since I was last on! I may consider the wet palette if I can figure out a good thinning/properly mixed consistency for the Vallejo paints. Especially for khaki colors since I have a ton of guardsmen that need base coating. I'll have to buy their thinner and give it a shot.

As for the matte paint retarder, any brand recommendations? Can I just use any brand and it will do the trick? How does it work with alcohol based/Tamiya paint?

Also, the milk frother seems a bit extreme haha. Does that process ever get messy?

Tamiya is crap for brush painting.

It is really only good for airbrushing.

I didn't realize that there was alcohol based tamiya paint in involved. I only had knowledge of the acrylic based tamiya.

Liquitex makes a good retarder for acrylic paint. I have seen some other brands in the store but have no experience with them.

With my Vallejo paints I tend to do a 2:1 or sometimes 3:1 ratio for thinning (thinner:paint) and you just thin it right on your pallet.

Tamiya acrylics do have an alcohol base but you can easily clean up with water. No different from other acrylics in that respect.

I feel I've had good results when brush painting Tamiya. Some of the paints are fine to thin with a little water, just make sure its clean or you'll get some weird effects when it dries. Or you can avoid that completely and use their thinner all the time.

When measuring thinned paints out, do you guys use a dropper to determine your thinner ratios, or do you just eyeball it?

 Stephanius wrote:
Vallejo paint is much thinner than GW paint.

VMA is, VGC and VMC are not.

AngularDeath wrote:
As for the matte paint retarder, any brand recommendations? Can I just use any brand and it will do the trick? How does it work with alcohol based/Tamiya paint?

Also, the milk frother seems a bit extreme haha. Does that process ever get messy?

I use liquitex matt medium, flow aid and drying retarder with my Vallejo and Minitaire acrylics. They work well. Golden is also recommended commonly. Just don't bother with the highly overpriced GW stuff.

When I was first learning how the milk frother behaved, I splattered a couple small drops when I had it over half way up in the bottle. In the bottom half it doesn't splatter at all, and that's where you want to stir it anyway so it's all good.

AngularDeath wrote:
When measuring thinned paints out, do you guys use a dropper to determine your thinner ratios, or do you just eyeball it?

Yep dropper bottles for all my mediums. Can be picked up really cheap off ebay or some big plastics website if you're in the US iirc. One of the great things about Vallejo is they come in dropper bottles so it's really easy to get consistent results.

Definitely droppers.

The Vallejo I use has dropper bottles. I have to eyeball the GW paint.

I use Aztek (Testors) thinner that comes in a dropper bottle as well.

Add another vote for droppers.

I purchased empty bottles, from the Warstore, which are the same size as Vallejo and Reaper.

Yeah, Tamiya paints did not like the wet palette
but for Vallejo and GW a wet palette makes a HUGE difference.

Tamiya may work with water, but alcohol is the best choice.

When airbrushing I just use some thinner (or alcohol) in a dropper bottle. Bought a few at hobby lobby and I just refill them as needed.

Flow aid and retarder both work with the tamiya paint.

Thank you guys so much for the advice. I've got a good list of supplies to get and some techniques now. I'll place a few orders this weekend and resume experimentation!

One other thing to consider; if there are specific GW and Tamiya paints you like and wish to continue using, buy empty dropper bottles and transfer them into the dropper bottles. I understand where you're coming from with waste due to pots drying out. Since I've transferred them to dropper bottles, it's been a non-issue. And for long term storage, they can be stored upside down, creating a seal at the nozzle.

BTW, why are you dissing your painting? It's very high quality table top. You should be proud.

The Vallejo bottles are better than the tamiya ones, though that's probaly becuase very model paint bottle in existance beats tamiya's Bullsh!t, self-sealing screw tops.

 Desubot wrote:


Also GW primers are terrible.

I like the GW primers.