warboss wrote:Figured I wouldn't clutter up the News/Rumors thread with more questions so here we go...
Can you mix and match figures from different factions (not just sectorials) in Infinity? I like the art for the upcoming geckos (obviously I'd need to see how the figs themselves turn out) but frankly not much else in the nomads gallery of figs on
CB's website catches my eye. Can you add stuff from other factions like Mercs (I assume) and even proper factions like Ariadna?
For the first half of the question, you can create Mercenary Lists under the rules. This is fairly uncommon since it largely allows you to circumvent a lot of factional weaknesses by taking units together that may never have been intended to be in the same list. But it can be done by reducing a units
AVA by half (rounded down). Units with Total
AVA become (I believe) 4 or 5 instead. And I think you can receive a certain number of
AVA 0 units depending on the size of the game (that last bit is where the biggest abuses can come in).
As for using Mercenary units from the Mercenary section, I believe the official stance is that "vanilla" (i.e. non-sectorial) lists can take any mercenary (outside of certain ones that wont work with a given faction). Sectorials can only take the units listed as available on their roster (though these often include specific mercenaries and even units from other factions).
I personally can't really recommend using the mercenary list rules as they currently stand. They are way too easy to abuse by creating an "all the good stuff" force. Since you can get a decent game going just using the starters (i.e. 150 points or so), their use is kind of suspect. If you only have a small collection, play a small game. My group did 150-200 point games for a while early on. So if you just have a small collection of various armies without enough to make a 300 point force, then just play small games while you learn to play. A non-broken mercenary army requires a lot of self-restraint and understanding of the rules to avoid problematic choice combinations. So they seem more like an advanced-player rule than something for new people.
But using mercs in regular forces is (or at least should be) fine. Though I think that one also tends to be touch and go for some players (though the only real troublesome combo is that it gives PanO the Yuan Yuan for cheap, normal smoke). Hell, most armies practically have to use mercs in scenarios since few armies have access to combat-ready engineers like the Kaplan within their list.
I had heard complaints from one of the local Infinity players about "ramboing" as well as from a friend online but wasn't completely sure how it worked. Apparently, it's like taking a bunch of space marine scouts that allow your terminator squad to move/shoot/assault over and over in their place. The link idea sounds like a good counter to having relatively useless units which works for Infinity's relatively low model count armies. So playing an army of the upcoming geckos then (even as small TAGs I assume they're a bit points pricey) would leave you with a relative order deficit then without the cheerleaders?
c:\ execute rambo_ramble.txt
[led_zeppelin:ramble_on]
Ramboing is kind of the "my first degenerate strategy" of Infinity that comes about more from inexperience than anything else. Early on, a lot of players will be really nervous of the
ARO system believing that their models will be a risk at all times (which is partly true). Combined with how a fickle crit can often end things in an anticlimactic way (and the fact that most early games are kill-em-all affairs) and you have a recipe for creating a two-way turtle-style standoff. Both side are afraid to pop out and take a crack at the other and realize that the best way to stop the enemy from picking them apart is to huddle up in cover and wait for the other guy to blink.
Well after a few games like this, one person will determine one thing. They will realize that those times they dumped a lot of orders in to a strong model and rushed to hiding hole, they actually did quite well. And with everyone in one place, they can probably splurge on one (maybe two) really strong units and leave the rest as basic infantry to make sure they have a ton of orders. Now, the very first degenerate strategy meets the next. Turtling is utterly trounced by a well-done Rambo run. The clumped models will die in droves as the the more maneuverable single unit takes its shots from ideal angles to chop the enemy apart.
At this point the learning cliff of Infinity is reached and most players are at the foot of it, and it is guarded by the Rambo manoeuvre. But there is an easy counter that most people often overlook at the beginning. See, a lot of people start getting in to an arms race. They try to build a better Rambo. And this, unfortunately is where a lot of people end up kind of getting frustrated as the logical extension is to grab TAGs and have at her (and some people resent dropping that much money on one unit). But a lot of people tend to overlook the "cheerleaders". This term was originally used as a disparaging remark for poor use of line infantry in a rambo; basically "they're no better than cheerleaders hanging back like that" (though it has since become the descriptor for line troops in general whether they are used openly as defensive troops or hidden away simply to provide orders).
You see, the real weakness of the rambo-list is that its order pool is very, very easy to kill. There are tons of ways to sneak something past the single rambo unit and in to the enemy deployment zone. A
TO camo unit in hidden deployment, an Impersonator placed to be inconvenient for the rambo to intercept, or a drop trooper brought in once the rambo has passed. From there it is a straight run right in to their order pool and once that is gone, the rambo loses its main strength. This even leaves you in position to get back shots on the rambo unit.
From there, the benefits of a balanced list with a variety of troops starts to become clear. Because once you determine that going for too many cheap orders and a low number of specialists is vulnerable to getting its pool cut out from under it, you start to see the advantages of spreading specialists out and taking more of them. Because while pumping 10 orders in to one
TAG is strong, it wastes a lot of time moving. But fast units, skirmishers, various other infiltrators and aerial deployment troops can usually start doing what you want with a minimum amount of orders spent.
You see, at its core, Infinity is more about attempting to do exactly what you need to do in as few orders as possible instead of pumping more orders than you need to to do a task. The rambo strategy is strong in early play because most players haven't grasped that key tenet yet. This is mostly because Infinity is fairly non-standard. Most people are used to actions being a one-off thing rather than a resource. So they treat the order pool with wild abandon instead of treating it as a scarce resource. Combined with the usual new player reticence to do a lot, they often end up feeling like they have a surplus of resources and nothing to do with them (thus rambo doesn't seem as wasteful as it is). But once you starting building lists with a nice pool of specialists, defenders, line troops and others, then those limits will begin to come in to focus. And the beauty of being able to pull off tasks for the least amount of orders (thus giving you greater board control over a wider area) will come to the fore.
Once you get some experience under your belt, the ability to "go full rambo" will become a tactical option to exploit a weakness in your opponent rather than a strategic build to exploit a metagame in its infancy. Even now, I will occasionally catch my opponent with their pants down and the best solution is to feed the model in the best position to exploit it seven orders, thus breaking my enemy's back. But it isn't often that that will be better than a coordinated use of 3-4 specialists across the board.
[/led_zeppelin:ramble_off]
As for the Gecko, they are actually cheaper than some elite Heavy Infantry units available to some factions. It is very possible to make a Corregidor force with four of them and still have a full order pool. That is actually the beauty of them. But beware, they are
REALLY vulnerable to hacking (especially compared to other TAGs), and that means taking possession of them is much easier than normal. So taking a good defensive hacker (which Corr has in the form of the Wildcat) is basically required (unless you are fighting Ariadna and you can be double-sure they aren't going to be sporting a hacker 'for the lulz'). But one of my first tasks upon seeing the Gecko was to see whether I could make a decent 10-man list with them. And the answer is a resounding YES.
).
