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Just wondered whether I should. Here is my history in WHFB:
I used to play in 7th Edition, and at the start of 8th...
I also played (and still do) 40k. I was more into 40k, so my fantasy stuff kinda fell into unuse.
My main opponent plays both. Now I'm (if I may say so myself) quite good at 40k. My main opponent is fairly good, but I tend to win around 70-80% of our 40k games.
Now the problem:
He got the ogre's book when it came out, and now has a super awesome ogre's build. I've played a few games against it in my latter days of fantasy.
He wins 80-90% of his fantasy games.
Whenever we play fantasy, he demolishes me. I can't win.
I don't want him to give me kid gloves, or tone down his lists, and he's pretty much the only person I can play fantasy against.

Should I get back into it?

I would. Find a list that beats his and he'll probably change it; this would add depth to your games. What do you play?

Well I own dark elves and high elves but I don't think I have the current army books... And I think I'd want to change army anyway...
By the way I don't actually own a fantasy rulebook (my opponent does), because I never play anyone else at fantasy so I don't really need one. I also don't want to just go on the Internet and find an awesome OP list because it kinda takes away from him what he can do (he never goes on websites like dakka, and figures out all his own combos by playing other people).
I guess it would help to find a better list.
What do people recommend if I DO come back?

Edit: would it help if I gave a rough idea of his list?

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Well I own dark elves and high elves but I don't think I have the current army books... And I think I'd want to change army anyway...
By the way I don't actually own a fantasy rulebook (my opponent does), because I never play anyone else at fantasy so I don't really need one. I also don't want to just go on the Internet and find an awesome OP list because it kinda takes away from him what he can do (he never goes on websites like dakka, and figures out all his own combos by playing other people).
I guess it would help to find a better list.
What do people recommend if I DO come back?

Edit: would it help if I gave a rough idea of his list?

High elves got a new book wich wrecks allot of people's faces.
Dark elves still got their old one but it does very well! cheap units and awesome at shooting/magic.
Rumour says Dark elves will get their next armybook by October.

 phatonic wrote:

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Well I own dark elves and high elves but I don't think I have the current army books... And I think I'd want to change army anyway...
By the way I don't actually own a fantasy rulebook (my opponent does), because I never play anyone else at fantasy so I don't really need one. I also don't want to just go on the Internet and find an awesome OP list because it kinda takes away from him what he can do (he never goes on websites like dakka, and figures out all his own combos by playing other people).
I guess it would help to find a better list.
What do people recommend if I DO come back?

Edit: would it help if I gave a rough idea of his list?

High elves got a new book wich wrecks allot of people's faces.
Dark elves still got their old one but it does very well! cheap units and awesome at shooting/magic.
Rumour says Dark elves will get their next armybook by October.

Oh that's cool... I might go high elves because I have a fair few models... Are the archers any good in the new book? Because I have like a billion of them!

Tactical_Genius wrote:

 phatonic wrote:

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Well I own dark elves and high elves but I don't think I have the current army books... And I think I'd want to change army anyway...
By the way I don't actually own a fantasy rulebook (my opponent does), because I never play anyone else at fantasy so I don't really need one. I also don't want to just go on the Internet and find an awesome OP list because it kinda takes away from him what he can do (he never goes on websites like dakka, and figures out all his own combos by playing other people).
I guess it would help to find a better list.
What do people recommend if I DO come back?

Edit: would it help if I gave a rough idea of his list?

High elves got a new book wich wrecks allot of people's faces.
Dark elves still got their old one but it does very well! cheap units and awesome at shooting/magic.
Rumour says Dark elves will get their next armybook by October.

Oh that's cool... I might go high elves because I have a fair few models... Are the archers any good in the new book? Because I have like a billion of them!

If i recall right they are slightly few points cheaper if it wasnt them it was the spearmen, anyhow. They are still good to have as a bunker for your wizzards. and with the new rules in the high elf book, you can have 3 ranks without even being horde to let them all shoot.
so you can have 3 ranks of 5 and still get all the shots

Sounds awesome
So do people just think I should get the new HE book, then just find a way to beat his list?

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Sounds awesome
So do people just think I should get the new HE book, then just find a way to beat his list?

Building lists and keep on going is what makes a player better! Go for it!
you can go for a big unit of dragon princes with dragon of the world dragon to gain a 2+ ward against all magical attacks/missles/magic Well unless it's dwellers below or purple sun... cuz they ignore any saves of any kind... but If i recall correctly, ogres can't take either^^ Phoenix guard for the unit wide 4+ ward and their halberds with allways strike first is neet, and not to forget that if a high elf wizzard cast one of the High elf lores successfull, the unit he's inn gains 1+ to it's ward save.. making the phoenix guard 3+ ward if they have a mage with em

 phatonic wrote:

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Sounds awesome
So do people just think I should get the new HE book, then just find a way to beat his list?

Building lists and keep on going is what makes a player better! Go for it!
you can go for a big unit of dragon princes with dragon of the world dragon to gain a 2+ ward against all magical attacks/missles/magic Well unless it's dwellers below or purple sun... cuz they ignore any saves of any kind... but If i recall correctly, ogres can't take either^^ Phoenix guard for the unit wide 4+ ward and their halberds with allways strike first is neet, and not to forget that if a high elf wizzard cast one of the High elf lores successfull, the unit he's inn gains 1+ to it's ward save.. making the phoenix guard 3+ ward if they have a mage with em

Sounds cool, I might have to get my hands on that book...
His list is (rough cos I haven't played in a while) something like:
Big horde of normal ogres (12 I think) with one of their spellcasters.
Two of those big chariots.
A couple of the riders on the big rhino-looking things (can't remember the name, I want to say mournfang...)
Some leadbelchers.
And (this is the trick) a leader (the combat Lord level one, not sure on name sorry) on the BRB flying carpet.

What he does is he deploys with the horde opposite my best unit, the flyer nearby. Then he gets the horde within charge range (while buffing them from the spell guy), then flies the leader behind/to the side of my unit. Then in my turn, it's difficult to destroy the leader guy, then my unit has to make the hard choice of whether to point at the horde or the leader, because either way I get flank/rear charged. And I can't divert too much resources to killing the leader / thinning the horde because of all of the other targets.

Also going to point out that while it's obvious I'm terrible at fantasy, don't treat me with noob-gloves, because I'm pretty decent at 40k, I just don't play enough fantasy to get good

That's relatively easy to counter. Put a 50 point Eagle or 70 point Reavers at an angle in front of his horde. If he charges, he has to "close the door", ie. align to it. He will likely beat it but then he a) overruns away from you, possibly offering you a flank charge or b) reforms and is stalled - he's only moved an inch or so. Both your units are fast and cheap. They can be in his face turn 1, then rinse and repeat. It's totally possible to keep a unit out of the game forever. At least it gives you time to deal with something else first.

Also, Elves are good at fielding many small but scary units (MSU). 15 Swordmasters or Lions, chariots, Silverhelms, Noble on Eagle, you name it. You should be able to counter two units. You can also shoot/magic his flyer, or slow stuff down, or boost your own troops on your turn.

Archers, hmm. They're good at clearing annoying chaff - like Reavers but will often ping off higher T or good armour. Don't take all that many. 2*15 or 1*20 should be enough. Remember that if you flank charge his Lord with 15-20 archers, you might actually win - 1-3 ranks, charge, flank, standard = 4-6 combat res. Challenge him with a champion to reduce actual casualties, or put your BSB in the unit, too (on the very edge so he cannot be attacked by the Ogre).

If all that doesn't work, look at the odd Ini test. There's nothing Ogres hate more than Ini tests. Well, lack of food might qualify...

Thanks for the advice
Aside from the specific advice already given, does anybody have more general advice for 8th Edition?
Is it all about MSU? Or big hordes?
Lots of cheap guys? Or fewer powerful guys?
Herohammer or troophammer?
Shooting or combat?
Magic? (I like magic )
Etc?

I feel it's a lot more fluctuation than some give it credit for. When it came out, everyone would field 40, 50, 60+ men. Then some people rediscovered Knights, or others realized they could be successful, then some armies' ability to field MSU gained some ground...but even HE who are really good at this sometimes field a horde of White Lions, which is a very strong unit.

100 Slaves, with the right Ld buffs, ouch, try to shift that when there's a second such unit and some HPA, Doomwheels etc. Then again, 4-5 units of 40 Clanrats with Weapon Teams can work very well. Some people field small units of 5-6 core Knights for Empire, backed up with 3*3 Demis and a Stank - very strong, very unconventional.

Things like the Big Ogre Irongut Deathstar can work well, too, but you need to win the chaff war first. In fact, deathstars are nearly always accompanied by ample chaff and chaff hunters or they fall flat on their nose.

Missile units like Handgunners are still not that good because combat happens relatively soon (cavalry) or the few casualties don't matter (hordes). However, there's an exception once more - a Helblaster rips through stuff, Outriders are useful, a Khalida TK bowline can destroy stuff, DE repeaters can get a lot of bolts in the air and Dwarfs have some benefits, too. Having said that, mobility and combat potential (or maximizing it through maneouver) is almost always superior. Warmachines are another kettle; they're mostly all pretty good, be it a Doom Diver, Trebuchet or Great Cannon

Magic is super-important. While I've seen armies win without, a simple -1 to hit hex can turn a tight combat on its head. L4's are popular. Some prefer the Big Destroyer spells, others like me are more into 2-3 multiple dicing supporting ones.

Oh, and generally it's more troop- than herohammer. There are a few - Demon Princes of Nurgle, DE unkillable Pendant Lord, Ogres, Vampire Lords loaded for Bear, Tzeentch Disc BSB - who can crush stuff or even decide games but they can be avoided, tarpitted and also killed. The trick is to know how with what you've got when you face them...

 Mike der Ritter wrote:
I feel it's a lot more fluctuation than some give it credit for. When it came out, everyone would field 40, 50, 60+ men. Then some people rediscovered Knights, or others realized they could be successful, then some armies' ability to field MSU gained some ground...but even HE who are really good at this sometimes field a horde of White Lions, which is a very strong unit.

100 Slaves, with the right Ld buffs, ouch, try to shift that when there's a second such unit and some HPA, Doomwheels etc. Then again, 4-5 units of 40 Clanrats with Weapon Teams can work very well. Some people field small units of 5-6 core Knights for Empire, backed up with 3*3 Demis and a Stank - very strong, very unconventional.

Things like the Big Ogre Irongut Deathstar can work well, too, but you need to win the chaff war first. In fact, deathstars are nearly always accompanied by ample chaff and chaff hunters or they fall flat on their nose.

Missile units like Handgunners are still not that good because combat happens relatively soon (cavalry) or the few casualties don't matter (hordes). However, there's an exception once more - a Helblaster rips through stuff, Outriders are useful, a Khalida TK bowline can destroy stuff, DE repeaters can get a lot of bolts in the air and Dwarfs have some benefits, too. Having said that, mobility and combat potential (or maximizing it through maneouver) is almost always superior. Warmachines are another kettle; they're mostly all pretty good, be it a Doom Diver, Trebuchet or Great Cannon

Magic is super-important. While I've seen armies win without, a simple -1 to hit hex can turn a tight combat on its head. L4's are popular. Some prefer the Big Destroyer spells, others like me are more into 2-3 multiple dicing supporting ones.

Oh, and generally it's more troop- than herohammer. There are a few - Demon Princes of Nurgle, DE unkillable Pendant Lord, Ogres, Vampire Lords loaded for Bear, Tzeentch Disc BSB - who can crush stuff or even decide games but they can be avoided, tarpitted and also killed. The trick is to know how with what you've got when you face them...

Thanks for the summary.
So you think combat + magic are the more prominent aspects of the game this edition?
That's cool, especially magic, because I love magic. (the only time I beat my friends Ogres regularly was in storm of magic with my [old] high elves).
Anybody have any general tips for beating Ogres with HE?
Any tips for making a TAC list with HE?
Where should I start with coming back to fantasy?