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I will apologise if this has been covered, I can't find it at the minute. It's a relatively simple question (I hope)

Since 6th ed rules the eldar were slowed with the changing of the fleet special rule, stopping them from being able to run and then charge. When the newest edition of the eldar codex was released they gained 'battle focus' allowing them to run and shoot in the same phase. The rule book states that models firing assault weapons may charge the unit they shot at, but units that ran in the assault phase may not charge.... So since the eldar can now run AND shoot assault weapons, which rule applies? Personally I think they should be able to charge, that's the point to eldar surely? Speed? But soe of my opponents are questioning it (and rightly so) as there is nothing in the FAQ

Let me know your thoughts

Khaine's Wrath wrote:
The rule book states that models firing assault weapons may charge the unit they shot at,

Citation needed.

I do not see where it says this.

It does list conditions where you can not charge, like on page 20, but I see nothing that says "models firing assault weapons may charge the unit they shot at"

I see a rule that says "a unit that fired in the shooting phase can only charge the unit that it targeted during that turn's Shooting phase" (20) But this makes no mention of Assault Weapons.


Bottom line, if you run you can not charge.

Yeah this one is pretty cut and dry. "Units that run in the Shooting phase cannot charge in the following Assault phase"

So if you choose to run as part of battle focus you can't charge.

It does however list weapons that can be fired and restrict the unit from charging on that same phase, ie rapid fire, salvo, ordinance or heavy weapons! So by firing an assault weapon or a pistol weapon you are inherently allowed to charge. But you must charge the unit you shot at.

Battle focus allows you to both run and shoot. Shooting certain weapons does not prevent you from charging, but running does. So as you are doing both it Is unclear which takes precedence for the purposes of charging?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Are either of you guys regular eldar players?

Khaine's Wrath wrote:

Battle focus allows you to both run and shoot. Shooting certain weapons does not prevent you from charging, but running does. So as you are doing both it Is unclear which takes precedence for the purposes of charging?

Not at all. Since 40k is a permissive ruleset, the restriction of "can't charge" takes precedence over the general "can charge" rule. Specific rules trump general rules (unless there's a conflict between Codex and BRB, in which case Codex>BRB).

I have the codex right in front of me and I play eldar every single week.

The Second paragraph has nothing to do with charging it restricts what weapons can be fired and than run or run than fired.

i.e. you cannot run and fire heavy weapons unless relentless, i.e. walkers can battle focus and shoot heavy weapons.

There are no weapon specific rules that allow you to run and charge, there are ones that allow you to shoot and charge.

This is very very clear already

Battle focus allows you to run and shoot in the same phase

if you choose to run as part of the battle focus or run in general without shooting you may not charge ever.

Cool. Thanks dude. Needed it clearing up. I think perhaps I was being a bit hopeful and reminiscent of the old eldar rules. Fleet allowing them to run and then charge. It's nice to get an opinion and clarity from someone who plays eldar regularly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
HOWEVER, if you don't choose to run as part of battlefocus, I am assuming you still get the furious charge special rule? (I'm guessing that is why furious charge is part of the rule - it may have been why I assumed you were able to charge)

Khaine's Wrath wrote:
HOWEVER, if you don't choose to run as part of battlefocus, I am assuming you still get the furious charge special rule? (I'm guessing that is why furious charge is part of the rule - it may have been why I assumed you were able to charge)

What? Furious Charge isn't in the Battle Focus rule... at all...

Khaine's Wrath wrote:

Battle focus allows you to both run and shoot. Shooting certain weapons does not prevent you from charging, but running does. So as you are doing both it Is unclear which takes precedence for the purposes of charging?:[/size]
Are either of you guys regular eldar players?

There is not levels like this, running prevents you from charging as like deep striking and firing assault weapons prevents you from charging, you specfic exceptions to each rule you are using not just one to be able to do something.

I.e a rule that lets you run and charge in the same phase, then the battle focus rule which allows you to run and shoot. As you only have the battlefocus no you cannot charge as running still restricts this.

Cool.

And the furious charge isn't a standard battle focus thing, it's the Iyanden primaris psychic power. It gives all wraith units battle focus and furious charge if they're within 12" of the spiritseer.

Ah, that makes much more sense, I don't have the supplement, so apologies on sounding condescending.

Haha, nah it's fine. I often mis read or mis interpret! You had me rummaging through mine to make sure I hadn't made it up!

Being allowed to assault after running would actually make Banshees worth their points.

Sadly that is not the case.

Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Battle focus allows you to both run and shoot. Shooting certain weapons does not prevent you from charging, but running does. So as you are doing both it Is unclear which takes precedence for the purposes of charging?

You apply all the rules that apply to the situation.

Remember that Can't trumps Must (Or Can) in a permissive ruleset unless the must gives specific permission to over-ride the Can't.

My little bugs would also be very happy if they could run and charge. Unfortunately, no.

In general, you are allowed to charge in the assault phase. Then plenty of rules stop you from doing so, with specific actions leading to the charge permission being removed.

When you fire certain weapons, you can't charge. When you fire other weapons, you can only charge what you shot at. When you run, you can't charge.

Nothing in Battle Focus removes any of the restrictions above.

Eldar, no. Rumor is that Nids will be able to with their new book...