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Howdy,

So I've been considering getting into Imperial Guard for a little while now. Something about their grit and feel just make me want to pick them up and run some tanks or infantry across the board, and watch those patriots' lasfire fly.

But in order to do this, short of dropping .. Far more money than I'd like, I'd have to trade in some models with a local gamer at my LGS. With the new Space Marine codex coming out, and with the Templars being part of it.. If it's not a good update, or they nerf their fluffy feel too much, I might just trade them to an unsuspecting player who wants some Templars. I'd probably get a better deal that way, too, however, I don't know if they're any better than /Templars/ on the Table Top right now.

So what's the word, guys? Any good?

I'd get into guard if you want to play guard. How good or bad any other army is shouldn't make a difference in your decision, much less any change in quality.

Also, you don't have to collect an entire guard army at once. You can start with bits and play smaller games, growing your army over time. Waiting to see if you like the SM codex or not to sell everything SM and buy everything guard probably isn't the way to go about it compared to a more organic way of growing things.

My main army is Cadian IG. Considering the current GW release rumors, you should wait for the new IG codex that will be released in about seven months. Then you can accurately compare the IG with the SM codex.

Personally, IG have always been fun to build, paint, and play, but they are not always as competitive as they have been with the current codex. However, the current rules allowances for allies will probably ensure that the new IG codex is popular.

 Ailaros wrote:
I'd get into guard if you want to play guard. How good or bad any other army is shouldn't make a difference in your decision, much less any change in quality.

Also, you don't have to collect an entire guard army at once. You can start with bits and play smaller games, growing your army over time. Waiting to see if you like the SM codex or not to sell everything SM and buy everything guard probably isn't the way to go about it compared to a more organic way of growing things.

You make a valid point, although I didn't mean to sound like I was trying to collect to win. I'd just like to be able to be in a competitive environment with the army I like, was what I was trying to get at. Afterall, nobody likes to make an army their baby, and then be forced to sit on their hands during a local tournament.

IG, when built right, can be very competitive. The main problem with them is that they have an older codex, so the range of viable builds is shrinking as codex creep increases the overall power level of the game. Early in 5th you might have been able to get away with things like Sentinels or ratlings, but now you need a much more focused and optimized list.

Black Templars actually are looking okay from the rumors. Additionally the nice thing about SM is you can use any chapters rules to represent any paint scheme if you need to be competitive.

IG have some issues in the competitive department right now. To fix these issues you either need SM (usually DA or SW) allies or Forgeworld units to fill in the weaknesses in the dex.

 ansacs wrote:
Black Templars actually are looking okay from the rumors. Additionally the nice thing about SM is you can use any chapters rules to represent any paint scheme if you need to be competitive.

IG have some issues in the competitive department right now. To fix these issues you either need SM (usually DA or SW) allies or Forgeworld units to fill in the weaknesses in the dex.

This is true.


And that's what I was afraid of: Imperial Guard getting phased out due to the sheer amount of awesomesauce getting introduced. Not that they won't get their own Codex, at some point, though.

I don't think "phased out" is correct. Rather they just don't have forward scoring units and you need forward scoring units.

Pre Tau you could get by with just out shooting everyone and moving onto empty objectives with your criminally undercosted vendettas. Now there are armies that can compete with IG in shooting and contest those objectives to boot. The strategies are also catching up with the IG strategies and 80% of the dex did not translate particularly well to the new edition.

Saying all that though. Assuming you are not talking a GT I could see winning a local tournament handily with an IG army. If you go to a GT then you should make up your own mind or you will loose. Honestly all the top placing people at Golden Throne seemed to bring non spam lists with a fair number of units people continually call bad...so this tells you people can only give you a good list not a great list (which has to suit you).

 Brave Sir Robin wrote:
And that's what I was afraid of: Imperial Guard getting phased out due to the sheer amount of awesomesauce getting introduced. Not that they won't get their own Codex, at some point, though.

It's not a phasing out of the entire army, it's just a narrowing of the list of viable options. Consider Tau right before their current codex was released: you could still build a viable tournament list (especially if you were playing in local events and not the most competitive national ones), but you were limited to a short list of options. You spammed broadsides and crisis suits (with one of 2-3 viable weapon choices), and you never took vespids/sky rays/special characters/etc. But they never got to a point where showing up with any Tau list meant certain defeat.

So what you have to ask yourself now is whether you're ok with playing a narrower range of units, or if you're going to be frustrated when your list full of sentinels/ratlings/etc gets tabled every game.

I'd say go for it! I'm getting into IG and its fun! Now is the time to get into IG, the codex hasn't kept up with the creep , but it's still viable. 6th brought an effective end to mech armies, but rewarded armies that have a lot of artillery (where guard feels right at home). Over watch isn't so much of a problem when you can shoot up to 150 shots from a single unit (for only 250 points!). IG is a shooting horde army, let the dice roll like thunder!!!

gealgain wrote:
6th brought an effective end to mech armies, ...

...Over watch isn't so much of a problem when you can shoot up to 150 shots from a single unit (for only 250 points!). IG is a shooting horde army, let the dice roll like thunder!!!

Effective end to mech armies? Do you know Wave serpents?

150 shots from a single unit for 250 points? No.
1) You do not have 50 lasguns, you have 45 in a 50-man units.
2) It is almost impossible to fire with all of your models at a 12" range. You have 50 models! That is a lot of space. And remember, you need to use proper spacing or you will get eaten alive from blasts and templates.
3) 250 points? If you really play a 50-man plain infantry squad blob, you are doing something wrong. You know that almost any unit will destroy the whole squad in the first round of CC?
4) You are asuming that you use FRFSRF order. Fine, but you need to have the command (another points up and it can get killed very easily) and you have to pass that order...

Sorry to say this to you, but you really have written a nonsense.

To the OP:

Imperial Guard is still very fun to play in 6th edition. You have great flyer (vendetta), you are the best imperial ally (great use with marines, wolves, dark angels, grey knights and even chaos). Apart from that, you can use Forgeworld (if you have the money and tolerant friends) and still build a competitive army list. Without forgeworld it is not so strong as Tau or Eldar or necron/chaos flyer list, but it can be viable.

 Lothar wrote:


150 shots from a single unit for 250 points?

He is referring to a 50-man blob FRFSRF-ing at 12" range.

Though that is a ludicrous circumstance and he forgot the cost of the PCS.

Well If your grand strategy is to run infantry across the board with tank or flyer support then I must say that it is not going to work.

As othes have said as of right now guard is very limited in the number of units that are viable. And most of the time Guards troops are so fragile that if caught in the open will probably just get torn apart from small arms fire.
If you are playing any foot based list your best bet is a gunline list sitting bck behind an aegis line and shooting your opponent down as he tries to advance.

Still only 45 lasguns & 2 laspistols for 250 points.

45 lasguns = 3x45 = 135
2 laspistols = 3

Total 138 las shots at 12" with FRFSRF.

To be honest it's not something worth arguing about too much as it seems like it was just a throwaway comment to illustrate a point.

We can get into the question of how often you're likely to have all 50 blokes within 12" range of something, how often all 50 blokes will survive long enough to be within range of something, the viability of having no upgrades to a 50 man blob and so on... But I'm sure it's been covered multiple times before.

I had about 1500 worth of IG and sold them recently due to wrong expectations. I wanted a mechanized infantry without any artillery or fliers but that didn´t work out all that well because of the way vehicles work in 6th ed... I am looking forward to the new codex though and can imagine to come back one day since I loved to paint my IG.
IG are worth investing though if want to play according to it´s strengths: Fliers & Artillery. But that´s not my cup o´tea...

Brave Sir Robin wrote: I didn't mean to sound like I was trying to collect to win... nobody likes to make an army their baby, and then be forced to sit on their hands during a local tournament.

Those two statements kind of contradict each other. You don't want to build a competitive army, but you want it to do well in a competitive environment?

Anyways, as for IG power levels at the moment, it's not so much a matter of other codices getting more powerful, so much as it is them getting well-rounded. When the current codex came out, there wasn't THAT much that could handle horde armies out there. Some armies, like old GK and old necron, were just completely powerless against a guard mass infantry charge. But then, over the years, they've made codices better balanced. DE got venoms, GK got interceptors and dreadknights, necron got tesla spam, CSM got cheaper CC and ignores cover noise marines, DA got salvo bolters, etc. etc.

Guard really worked because there were several whole armies that were really unbalanced that just had no way to handle 120 guardsmen, or 12 chimera-chassised vehicles. Now that they've fixed the other codices, the durability of guard armies has dropped sharply, especially when you also consider what the change to 6th ed did to foot hordes. It went from guard being about as durable while having better shooting, to guard having the same shooting, but worse durability.

I guess we'll just have to see what happens with their next codex.