Design a new vehicle for your army

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**rohansoldier**

Hi all

In a similar vein to the design a character posts I have seen on dakka, I would be interested to hear what ideas for new vehicles we can come up with.

They don't need to use any of the vehicle design rules, but they do need to be as balanced as possible and fulfil a genuine need in the codex that they would occupy if they were official rules.

Please also give an idea of your thought process behind designing the vehicle, what it's battlefield use would be, etc.

To start us off, I give you the CSM Nemesis pattern Land Raider:

I personally find it ridiculous that in 10,000 years the CSM have not created their own Land Raider variant, especially as they must have encountered the Redeemer and Crusader variants on multiple occasions over the millennia. This is made more ridiculous when you consider that the CSM have both the Iron Warriors and the Dark Mechanicus at their disposal.

Onto the rules:

Unit FA SA RA BS PTS
Nemesis 14 14 14 4 275
Land Raider

Type: Tank
Special Rules: Assault Vehicle, Infernal Device, Transport Capacity (16)

Infernal Device - When the original Traitor Legions turned to Chaos, it wasn't just their bodies and souls that were corrupted. The rot of Chaos changed their weaponry and fighting vehicles as well. The noble Machine Spirits of the Astartes Legions were turned into something immeasurably darker and more dangerous.

The Nemesis Land Raider may use the power of the Infernal Device in the Chaos Shooting phase to fire an additional weapon to the number that the Land Raider would normally be able to fire. This weapon is always fired at full BS and may be fired at a different target to the tanks remaining weaponry.

Alternatively, the Infernal Device may be used in the opposing players shooting phase, in which case one weapon on the vehicle is granted the Skyfire and Interceptor special rules. This weapon may not be fired in the next Chaos shooting phase.

Weapons:

2 Hades Autocannons, Ectoplasm Cannon

Options: The Hades Autocannons may be upgraded to Baleflamers at +25pts each. The Ectoplasm cannon may be exchanged for a third Hades Autocannon at no cost.

The Nemesis pattern Land Raider may take any vehicle upgrade allowed by Codex Chaos Space Marines.

Designers notes: In my opinion CSM need another option for anti flier than expensive flakk missile Havoc squads and vector striking Heldrakes (as effective as this latter option is, it is also boring to implement as your only anti flier option) and also an option for Interceptor, which the codex currently lacks.

I did decide, however, to implement these options on an expensive platform which also uses a Heavy support choice, to discourage min maxing. This may however, also result in the Nemesis never being used due to its competitive force slot.

I also decided to give it a larger transport capacity to increase flexibility with transporting larger squads that chaos marines are able to field.

**Kain**

Do MCs count? If so...

Cost: ?? (I'll say 300 points for now)

Profile:

WS: 4
BS: 3
S: 6
T: 6
W: 4
I: 5
A: 5
Ld: 7
Sv: 3+

Unit type: Flying monstrous creature

Weapons and Biomorphs: Bonded Exoskeleton, Scything Talons (two sets), Bioplasma barrage, Scythe tail

Special Rules:
- Instinctive Behaviour – Feed
- Fearless
- Relentless
- Skyfall

Replace any set of Scything Talons with:
- Crushing Claws*, 10 points per model
- Stranglethorn Cannon***, 25
- Heavy Venom Cannon***, 25
- Impaler cannon***, 30 points per model.
- Twin-linked Devourers with Brainleech Worms, 15 points
- Twin-linkedDeathspitters with Deathscream Grubs***, 30 points

Take any of the following:
- Frag Spines, 5 points
- Adrenal Glands, 5 points
- Toxin Sacks, 5 points
- Regeneration, 20 points
- Armored Shell, 20 points
- Adamantium Tusks 15 points
- Mace tail. 15 points

*An Erinyes that takes two sets of Crushing Claws gains 2D3 additional attacks instead of the usual D3.
**An Erinyes with Deathscream Grubs fires it's deathspitters at Strength 7, AP5, and assault 6.
*** An erinyes with two impaler cannons, stranglethorns, or heavy venom cannons may fire them independently of one another or together to benefit from twin-linking and rerolling to wound or penetrate.

Unit-specific Special Rules and weapons:

Skyfall: Upon vector striking or in situations where the Erinyes is entitled to hammer of wrath attacks, the Erinyes may roll d3+1 additional attacks to represent the fury of it's sudden impacts. But only if it is either swooping or gliding, a grounded Erinyes may not receive these bonuses until it takes to the skies again. When vector striking other fliers, the Erinyes also gets hammer of wrath bonus attacks.

Bio-plasma barrage: A shrieking discharge of lethal bioplasma fired forth from it's gaping maw which can be modulated by careful arrangement of several structures within it's throat to provide either a barrage of blasts, a long stream that burns through cover, or two lances than can penetrate even vehicle armor, this weapon has the following profiles. Rng 18', S7 AP2 Assault 3 Blast or S6 AP3 Assault Template Torrent 6', or Rng' 18 S8 AP1 Assault 2 Melta.

Scythe tail: An Erinyes may make 1d3+1 additional attacks while vector striking or assaulting at half strength.

Adamantium Tusks: Grants the rage and rampage USR.

Mace tail: As scythe tail, but at full strength and with only one attack.

Fluff: Sensing that it's airforce required greater firepower, the Hive Mind has produced the Erinyes to fulfill the role of ground attack and heavy air superiority, signified by it's shrieking roar that heralds a storm of firepower, the Erinyes serves as an intermediary for the larger Harridan and the smaller Harpy. Often described as a flying carnifex, the Erinyes is actually quite distinct,, created using genetics from multiple sources, including Space Marines, Orkoids, Exodite Dinosaurs and Dragons, and Kroot, the Erinyes can be likened to a somewhat fat six limbed dragon. While there are obvious traits from the Carnifex genus such as it's relatively powerful build, many alterations had to be made in order to make it flight worthy.

Specializing in tearing open tanks, the Erinyes can appear with little warning, devastate a vehicle or enemy monster, and then be gone before proper retaliation can be unleashed upon it. It's primary weapon is it's unusually modulable bioplasma and superheated gas production ability. It can fire off a barrage of explosive orbs, a potent stream that can sear through cover, or deadly beams that can strike through tank armor.

Against other aircraft, the Erinyes can prove to be a surprisingly deadly foe, unleashing that special brand of Tyranid overkill into the opposing flier. Against ground targets, it sweeps overhead, diving down before unleashing a terrible barrage of attacks.

**rohansoldier**

I like it! Nasty, yet expensive enough not to be min maxed to oblivion.

I also like it's number of options and the fluff behind it.

And yes, MC's totally count!

**sing your life**

I'll join:

Iron Angels

Unit cost: 180pts

type: jet pack infantry, arch angel is jet pack infantry [character]
Unit conpasition: 5 iron angels

stats:

Iron angel:
ws bs s t w i a ld sv
4 4 4 4 1 5 1 10 3+

Arch angel:
ws bs s t w i a ld sv
4 4 4 4 1 5 2 10 3+

equipment: power armour, bolt pistol, krak and krak grenades

Energy bow: these mysterious staff from the dark age of technology are designed to interface with the user and fire piercing bolts of energy on command, in a way not disimular to the primitive bows of anquity.

An energy bow is a weapon with following profile:

Range: 30 inches
Strength: 4
AP: 3
Special rules: rapid fire, rending, bladed

Bladed: Energy bows count as heavy chainsaws in CC.

Angel wings: changes model's type to jet pack infantry

Special rules: inner circle, combat squads, split fire, vengeful strike [arch angel only]

Blessing of the lion: the iron angels have their primarch's favour, giving them a 4+ invunrable save.

options:

may take up to 5 additional arch angels for 35pts/model

up to 2 iron angels can be upgraded to arch angels for 12 pts/model

an arch angels can take items from the melee weapons section of the item list

an arch angel can take a lion cloak for 10pts [increasing his invunerable save to 3+]

**KommissarKiln**

Good thing I have my IG codex on hand...

Leman Russ Brawler (170 points sound good?)
......Armor
Bs F S R HP
3 13 12 10 3

Unit Type:
Vehicle (Tank, fast)

Wargear:
Brawler cannon, heavy bolter, smoke launchers, searchlight

The brawler cannon was originally a modified version of the Punisher gatling cannon. The weapon exchanged rate of fire for armor-piercing capabilities by using larger caliber rounds housing miniscule melta charges. The weapon is designed to and eliminate small groups of heavily armored infantry.

Range 48", S6, AP2, Heavy 5
It also has the special rule Rending

The Brawler may replace its heavy bolter with:
Lascannon... 5 points
The Brawler may also have a pair of sponsons armed with:
Lascannons... 25 points
Heavy Bolter... 20 points
Heavy Stubber... 15 points

After Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade wreaked havoc against the forces of Cadia, Segmentum command noticed near-identical reports of other Leman Russ failing to penetrate heavy armor, particularly those of Chaos Terminators. The Demolisher cannons deployed to defend the planet were simply too heavy and short ranged to threaten the mobile enemy. As a result, a new Leman Russ variant was developed. Some of the heavy armor famous of the Russ was stripped in favor of greater mobility. The Brawler cannon was also conceived to threaten heavy infantry where other tanks could not.

BTW, I have no idea if this is anything like any FW tanks, so let me know if there is and I'll virus-bomb on this post on the spot.

**Mezmerro**

Disc Speeder (CSM:TS army)
Thousand Sons used ones during GK - its a big open-topped saucer, based on Prosperian transport vehicle. Might be a flyer, but I think transport/shooting platform would fit it better.
45pts
Bs:4 F:11 S:11 R:10 HP:3
Unit Type:
Vehicle (Skimmer, Fast, Transport, Open-topped)
Transport Capacity: 9 (cannot transport Bulky and bigger models)
Wargear:
Twin-linked bolter with Inferno-bolts
Stabilizers: If Disc Speeder moves at cruising speed, his passengers could shoot like it moves at combat speed.
Crystal Throne: As long as there is atl least one psyker with the MoT inside Disk Speeder it have 5+ invulnerable save.

**rohansoldier**

I like the look of the disc speeder. The only question I have is why is it BS 3? Is it not crewed by Thousand Sons Marines?

**Mezmerro**

rohansoldier wrote:
The only question I have is why is it BS 3?

It's a typo. I'd fix it

Also I forgot to add Skimmer type.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

KommissarKiln wrote:
BTW, I have no idea if this is anything like any FW tanks, so let me know if there is and I'll virus-bomb on this post on the spot.

It is basically poor man's LR Executioner. Which actually make sense, because Executioners are ridiculously rare and expensive vluff-wise as they are only produced on one forge world.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

rohansoldier wrote:
Infernal Device - When the original Traitor Legions turned to Chaos, it wasn't just their bodies and souls that were corrupted. The rot of Chaos changed their weaponry and fighting vehicles as well. The noble Machine Spirits of the Astartes Legions were turned into something immeasurably darker and more dangerous.

The Nemesis Land Raider may use the power of the Infernal Device in the Chaos Shooting phase to fire an additional weapon to the number that the Land Raider would normally be able to fire. This weapon is always fired at full BS and may be fired at a different target to the tanks remaining weaponry.

Alternatively, the Infernal Device may be used in the opposing players shooting phase, in which case one weapon on the vehicle is granted the Skyfire and Interceptor special rules. This weapon may not be fired in the next Chaos shooting phase.

It could be simplified to "AT the end of your opponent movement phase you may declare one of the vehicle weapons as having Skyfire and Interceptor USRs. Vehicle aslo have PotMS if it hadn't shot interception shots during opponent's previous movement phase.

The part about not being able to shoot intercepor weapon is redundant - it is already stated in Interceptor rule wording.

**KommissarKiln**

Well, I did make it a fast tank, but I didn't realize the Executioner plasma cannon was heavy, not ordinance.

But I did try to keep the fluff in mind; Executioners and Vanquishers are both dwindling in numbers, so I wanted to have a sort of hybrid between them (and the Punisher) as a sort of filler for the absence of this particular type of firepower.

**Mozzamanx**

Chaos Space Marine: Marauder

Type: Tank, Open Topped, Transport. ~90pts

AV 13/11/10. HP3/4
Transport capacity: 15 models. May carry Bulky and Very Bulky units.
May take Frag Launchers for a significant price increase (~20pts). Otherwise has access to the Chaos Marine Vehicle wargear.

Available as a Fast Attack choice to Chaos Space Marines.

Very simply, a battering ram transport to get your heaps of melee infantry into combat intact. Expensive enough that it is not a must-take and lacking weaponry. Average speed and decent armour but otherwise a simple, expensive box. By using a FA slot you can prevent excessive spam of them and it means that every Marauder loses access to a Heldrake. The Bulky/Very Bulky clause is there because I love the idea of herding Spawn out the front door.
Appearance-wise think if it as being similar to the FW Gorgon, in that it is an open-topped, heavily built transport with high walls and the general appearance of a ram.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Imperial_Guard_Super_Heavy_Tanks/GORGON-ARMOURED-ASSAULT-TRANSPORT-WITH-MORTARS.html

**Sheepdog**

KommissarKiln wrote:

Range 48", S6, AP2, Heavy 5
It also has the special rule Rending

Call me daft, but I really don't understand why you would give it the Rending rule if it already has AP2. Perhaps you could make it AP3 with rending. Still negates SMEQ Power armor saves and then gives a little bit of a hope roll against Termies. Just a thought.

**Mezmerro**

Sheepdog wrote:
KommissarKiln wrote:

Range 48", S6, AP2, Heavy 5
It also has the special rule Rending

Call me daft, but I really don't understand why you would give it the Rending rule if it already has AP2. Perhaps you could make it AP3 with rending. Still negates SMEQ Power armor saves and then gives a little bit of a hope roll against Termies. Just a thought.

Because of those +D3 obviously.
AP3 would be pointlessness - that's what LRBT is for

**KommissarKiln**

Yeah, the Rending was a bit of an afterthought, but it was trying to emphasize that it's an antipersonnel weapon, not antitank.

**vossyvo**

Fun Thread!

I've always thought something like this for Orks would be cool. Rules might be a little off but you'll get where I'm going with it.

Ork Buldozaz

I'm imaginging this mini looking like a smaller truck with a large spiked dozer blade on the front (think vindicator but bigger shield)

Fast Attack.

Pts: 70 per Buldoza, Unit Size 1-3.

BS:2 AV:12/10/10 HP:2

Transport Capacity: Nil

Weapon: Big Shoota

Wargear: Doza Blade

Special Rules: Tank, Open Topped, Fast, Doze em Boyz.

Optional Upgrades: Red Paint Job (5 Points), Doza Spikes (10 Points).

Doze em Boyz: When performing a Tank Shock an Ork Buldoza inflicts D6 Str 5 Hits per Buldoza in the unit. In addition the unit struck is moved 2 D6 inches directly away from the Buldoza to perform the first tank shock.

Doza Blade: Any glacing hit allocated to the front armour of an Ork Buldoza is negated on a 3+, Penetrating hits effect the Buldoza as normal, in addition players attempting a Death or Glory attack on the Doza must roll a D6, on a 4+ the Death or Glory attack cannot be attempted.

Doza Spikes (Upgrade): Any hits caused by the Buldozas "Doze em boyz" rule are rending.

**Sheepdog**

I suppose I don't understand the extra D3 when its designed against armored infantry. Oh well. I wouldn't run it.

**DogofWar1**

My biggest pet peeve playing Marines nowadays is that we have very substandard means of getting into CC. Footslogging is assisted suicide, giving you enemy a turn to shoot and charge if you use drop pods is assisted suicide, and rhinos are basically giant metal deathtraps who result in...you guessed it, assisted suicide.

And Land Raiders and Stormravens cost an arm and a leg, there's just no way to move an army using these transports because you can only fit a couple in the list at great cost. Especially with the whole "flyers must start in reserves" rule. If you could start inside SRs and zoom, then move 6" and charge, I could understand holding back cheaper assault transports since you could swing turn 2 assaults if you wanted with them. As it stands though, the fastest you can pull it off now from the belly of a SR is turn 3 I think.

SO, two possible solutions.

Either:
A) New rhino upgrades. Allow:
- Variant with assault ramp on rear: +15 points
- Overcharged Engines: +15 points
- Heavy Armor (makes them 12/12/10): +15 points
Something like that would give you options to make your rhinos more survivable,
OR
B) develop a new vehicle. My concept:

Tempest: A recently discovered STC, it is larger than a rhino, but smaller than a land raider, fitting neatly in the middle in terms of transport capability and firepower.
80 pts base
- Transport capacity of 10 models.
- Has assault ramp on the front.
- Has heavy bolter sponsons, may be replaced with heavy flamers (+10 pts), multi-meltas (+10 pts), hurricane bolters (+15 pts) or, if transport capacity is reduced to 8, lascannon sponsons (+30 pts).

BS4 F12 S12 R11 HP3

**Mezmerro**

DogofWar1 wrote:
- Variant with assault ramp on rear: +15 points

Get a copy of IA2 and look at Rhino internal structure. There is no way you can fit a nose ramp into it. Its would be easier to just cut off the roof and make it open-topped, but techmarines would kill anyone who would dare for such a blasphemy.

**General Annoyance**

Ork Rokkit Buggy - Need help with value!

As the speed freak kults grow bigger and bigger, the variety of contraptions that the rest of the galaxy witness becomes wider, more dangerous, and more downright mad. One such new vehicle to sprout up more and more is a light machine known as a Rokkit Buggy. These mad adaptations of "regular" warbuggies involve a Mek attaching a large rack of high explosive, rocket propelled canisters to the back of the chassis instead of a normal weapon mount. These buggies are then rolled into a war zone, their pilots driving at insane speeds while unleashing a devastating volley of rudimentary explosives in the general direction of the enemy. The rate of fire of the rockets it typically similar to an automatic weapon, meaning that the canisters slam into enemy lines in a constant mass. Naturally, being Ork technology, this loadout doesn't come without its risks. Many rockets veer off course, hitting friendly avancing forces, while others fail to fire at all. The biggest risk is the rack of rockets detonating as the primer is ignited - an extremely entertaining sight for any Ork that isn't within 100 metres of the buggy in question. However, despite its flaws, biggest being the driver firing off his rockets in one very trigger happy volley - swiftly leaving him without ammunition - the Rokkit Buggy is an Ork vehicle to be feared. Fast, agile (for Ork standards at least), and packing a awesome punch, it is a fool indeed who stays within a Rokkit Buggy's rusty rangefinders for more than a few seconds - the responding barrage is enough to flatten the toughest of fortifications or the strongest of mobile armour.

Type - Vehicle, Fast, Open Topped

Bs - 2

Armour - 10 - 10 - 10

HP - 2

Wargear - Hull mounted shoota, rear mounted Rokkit Rack

Rokkit Rack Range - 48"

Regular - St - 6 Ap - 4 Assault 1, pinning
Big Barrage - St - 8 Ap - 3 Heavy 1, Ordnance, Pinning, Blast

Special rules

Rokkits.... AWAY! - Each rocket barrage has a varied level of canisters launched. Before the Rokkit Rack is fired, roll a D6. On a 1, an early primer trigger has occurred. The buggy is sent skywards in a roiling explosion of oil and flying Rokkit canisters. Treat the buggy as though it has suffered a "destroyed" result on the vehicle damage table, except the explosion range is 3d6. On a 2, the rockets have gone out of control - your opponent may re roll the scatter dice if he wishes, with the second result applying, or pick another target within 3d6 if it's a standard barrage. Regardless of the result, add on the number rolled to the number of rockets fired this turn... even if the buggy exploded.

Big Barrage - Most Mekboys fit a fast trigger that can prime all the rokkits at once. If the player chooses to use the Big Barrage, follow the rules above, using the "Big Barrage" profile above too. After this volley, the driver has exhausted his ammo supply - the rokkit rack cannot be fired for the rest of the game.

Hope you enjoyed reading!

**Broly33**

I think that rokkit rack needs some buffs. Normal rokkits are stronger so why shouldn't those be stronger?

**Wolf Lord Kevin**

RAWR TIME TO SHOW SOME LOVE TO THE MIGHTY HEROES OF FENRIS!!!!

S.D.W.(Sky Devouring Wolf).......280pts
BS:4 FA:14 SA:13 RA:13
Composition: 1 S.D.W.
Unit Type:Vehicle(Tank)
Wargear:
Searchlights
Smoke Launchers
Fenrisan Sky Ripper Launcher

Options:
Two Twinlinked sponson mounted Autocannons....10pts each
Two Sponson mounted Assault Cannons....10pts
Hunter Killer Missle........10pts
Extra Armour.......15pts

Fenrisan Sky Ripper Launcher uses the following profile:
Frag: Range 48 S4 AP6 Type Heavy 4,Blast
Krak: Range 48 S8 AP3 Type Heavy 4
Flakk: Range 48 S7 AP4 Type Heavy 4,Skyfire

summary it's a Long Fangs unit in one tank! well minus one more missile ^^;

**KommissarKiln**

I do like the random element of the rokkit buggy. If you're lucky (and if you read the rules carefully), you can send anywhere from 2 to 7 shots or small blasts in the vague, general direction (or not even that

) of the enemy. If I played against an ork player, I would even encourage them to use these things simply for its orky goodness.

**Mezmerro**

Wolf Lord Kevin wrote:
RAWR TIME TO SHOW SOME LOVE TO THE MIGHTY HEROES OF FENRIS!!!!

S.D.W.(Sky Devouring Wolf).......280pts

It's generally bad.
Armour is unreasonably high for a Rhino-based vehicle, and too low for a LR-based. No HP.
Sponson Autocannons and Assault Cannons does not exist because there is no STC of them. Duct-taping them on tank them is considered a tech-heresy and treated appropriately. Not even the Space Wolves have the balls to mess with AdMech.

And as you mentioned, it is just a Long Fang Squad in AV14 shell. Which means this thing have not it's own role on the battlefield - fangs could do it's job, and couldn't be meltagunned down by deppstriking Dread/Raptors/Crisises/Corsairs on turn two.

**The Mad Tanker**

Warp Lion Tank Destroyer Squadron...125pts

Constructed to provide fast response anti-tank support to the Imperial Guard, it was built using the easily constructed Chimera chassis and salvaged Vanquisher turrets. The engines where heavily modified in the same fashion as on the Hellhound, but the chassis was striped of armor to off set the extra wight of the vanquisher cannon. The tank is a glass cannon in every since of the term, and the crew of these lethal machines have learned to take full advantage of the tank's speed to shoot-and-scoot.

BS Armor F S R
3 10 10 10

Type: Vehicle(Tank, Fast, Open-Topped)
Unit: 1-3 Warp Lion TDs
Wargear: Vanquisher Battle Cannon, Heavy Stubber, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers.
Special Rules: Scout
Options:
Pintle-mounted Heavy Stubbber or Storm Bolter +10pts
HK Missile +10pts
Dozerblade +10pts
Camo Netting +20pts

May be taken as a Fast Attack Choice in an Imperial Guard Army.

Based on the Hellcat Tank Destroyer used during WWII by the Allies. It was one of mine favorite tanks and I wanted to make an IG version

**KommissarKiln**

You know how the open topped tanks with the chimera chassis all have names of mythological type creatures? With your name in mind, you should call it...

Wait for it....

The Nemean

**DogofWar1**

Taking the idea for the Space Wolf anti-air tank.

Ravening Sky Eater
Cost: 95 pts
BS4 F12 S12 R10 HP3
Unit Type (Tank)

Wargear:
Smoke Launchers
Search Lights
Two Skyhowl Missile Batteries: Range: 48", Flakk (S7 AP4) and Krak (S8 AP3) Missiles, Heavy 2. Flakk Missiles have skyfire.

Options:
- May replace one Skyhowl Missile Battery with Quad Gun for 15 pts
- May purchase Fire Controller (allows model to shoot at two separate targets) for 20 pts

The development of the Ravening Sky Eater occurred during the long bloody campaign on Luria XII in M37. The Great Companies of Jarl Joran Iron Wolf and Jarl Renault of the Ravening Jaw were engaged with combined forces of the Company of Misery and Iron Warriors, who had called upon innumerable Heldrakes to block out the skies and keep the Space Wolves pinned down. Renault, frustrated at the pace at which they destroyed the fell flying devices, approached Joran, and suggested that the many Iron Priests of Joran's Iron Wolf company be given the task of creating a more effective platform from which to destroy the beasts. The initial results were somewhat sloppy and jury-rigged, but promising nonetheless. Having initially modified Whirlwind tanks to fire Flakk missiles in addition to their normal armament, the tide turned quickly as Helldrakes fell from the sky, and the Space Wolves reasserted dominance over the planet.

After the success of the campaign, Joran worked with his Iron Priests to develop a true new tank variant, and chose to name it after Renault's company, which had pitched the idea in the first place. Choosing anti-air and anti-tank power over the anti-infantry power of the whirlwind, and armor over transport capacity, the new tank sported a specially altered Hyperios missile battery which Joran christened the Skyhowler.

In addition, sometimes a Long Fangs squad leader will find himself the last survivor of his pack. While many choose the life of the Lone Wolf if they aren't chosen for the Wolf Guard, a select few have gifted their time and skills as commanders of these tanks. Able to coordinate the crew inside, this squad leader enables the tank to bring it's two skyhowler batteries to bear against different targets. The most famous example of this was Lief "Drakebane" Draegor, who shot down no fewer than 6 Heldrakes in a days long battle on Civrios VI, securing a spaceport and turning the tide against the chaotic invaders.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mezmerro wrote:

Ad, it is just a Long Fang Squad in AV14 shellnd as you mentione. Which means this thing have not it's own role on the battlefield - fangs could do it's job, and couldn't be meltagunned down by deppstriking Dread/Raptors/Crisises/Corsairs on turn two.

To be fair, the same thing could likely be said about the Stalker or Hunter tanks that are coming out in comparison to flakk devastators. To a certain extent at least.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mezmerro wrote:

Get a copy of IA2 and look at Rhino internal structure. There is no way you can fit a nose ramp into it. Its would be easier to just cut off the roof and make it open-topped, but techmarines would kill anyone who would dare for such a blasphemy.

I'm a little confused. When you say nose ramp you mean an assault ramp like on the Land Raiders, right? I was looking at IA2, and while the inside of the rhino seems a tad cramped, the assault ramp on the land raider and the back hatch on the rhino (which already looks a little bit like an assault ramp) are pretty close in size. Maybe the assault ramp is like half a meter wider, but not by much. Based upon the top down diagram from IA2, it looks like 3 marines could exit a rhino at once from the back, and I imagine it's similar with the assault ramp. Also the rules specify that marines can assault from any exit on a land raider, not just the front, so a marine bottleneck is not the problem. Hmm.

Maybe I'm missing something, but the assault ramp doesn't look like it requires a ton of room to operate with, or anything super special. It frankly looks like a slightly modified back rhino hatch.

**Mezmerro**

>To be fair, the same thing could likely be said about the Stalker or Hunter tanks that are coming out in comparison to flakk devastators
No. Because flakk devastator niche is to be versatile but expensive, while AA tanks would certainly be cheap but only useful against aircraft and skimmers.

>I'm a little confused.
Assault ramp = forward ramp. It's not about ramp construction, but about it's position.

**doktor_g**

Ork looted wagon:

Take a tank or vehicle from any codex with any load out. All special rules still apply. Weapon range reduced by 25%. Av -1 on all sides. Same point cost. BS = 2. HP = -1

**DogofWar1**

Mezmerro wrote:
>To be fair, the same thing could likely be said about the Stalker or Hunter tanks that are coming out in comparison to flakk devastators
No. Because flakk devastator niche is to be versatile but expensive, while AA tanks would certainly be cheap but only useful against aircraft and skimmers.

>I'm a little confused.
Assault ramp = forward ramp. It's not about ramp construction, but about it's position.

On the role thing, mainly I was talking about the ability to be melta-gunned down quickly, and that Devs could do their job. A stalker or hunter is as susceptible to melta as the Sky Devouring Wolf concept, moreso actually because it's only AV12. The price difference between Devs and the Stalker/Hunter is pretty major though, I'll agree there.

That being said, for the Sky Devouring wolf concept, a tank with AA capability would go beyond the normal role of Long Fangs, seeing as SW have no AA capability right now. There are problems with the sky devouring wolf concept as it stands, but I think it could be salvaged, it just needs to be more focused on the "anti-air" aspect versus being good against everything.

As for the ramp position, sure an assault ramp ideally is on the front, but there's no reason you hypothetically couldn't mount one on the back of a vehicle that is capable of fitting it, move it across the battlefield, pivot, and then unload. Heck, it would make for interesting balance gameplay wise. You'd have to pay more for the assault ramp in the first place, and then choose between keeping front armor facing the enemy and forcing your marines to charge the extra few inches from the back of the rhino, or pivoting and giving your marines a couple inches shorter of a charge, but at the cost of exposing the rear AV10 of a more expensive than normal rhino.

**General Annoyance**

Broly33 wrote:
I think that rokkit rack needs some buffs. Normal rokkits are stronger so why shouldn't those be stronger?

I thought about this when after I wrote that piece up. Before it was St 8 Ap 3 for the normal and St 9 Ap 2 for the big barrage. But I swiftly edited that after realising that 7 St 9 Ap 2 blasts might enduce violent bouts of ragequit from my opponent

KommisarKiln - Thank you for the positive feedback! And isn't Orky randomness always welcome?

**Mezmerro**

DogofWar1 wrote:
As for the ramp position, sure an assault ramp ideally is on the front, but there's no reason you hypothetically couldn't mount one on the back of a vehicle that is capable of fitting it, move it across the battlefield, pivot, and then unload. Heck, it would make for interesting balance gameplay wise. You'd have to pay more for the assault ramp in the first place, and then choose between keeping front armor facing the enemy and forcing your marines to charge the extra few inches from the back of the rhino, or pivoting and giving your marines a couple inches shorter of a charge, but at the cost of exposing the rear AV10 of a more expensive than normal rhino.

You still dont get it. Assault ramp doesn't have some special construction that differs it from Rhino rear ramp. It is assault only because it is forward - disembarking troops can keep vehicle momentum and use it to move further (i.e. assault move). Sure, fluff wise backward moving Rhino (or pretty much any other transport) can do this too, but fluff≠crunch and for a reason. We don't want Rhinorush back.