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So I've been looking into the Land Raiders and the different types available, and I was wondering if anybody could give me advice on which LR configuration works best for Blood Angels or SM in general. Currently my army seems to have a little bit of everything, like tac squads and assault squads. I only own one Baal Pred, one Rhino, one Drop Pod and a Furioso Dread. Would anyone suggest other vehicles?

Unless you're packing a lot of melta, you seem to have little in the way of anti-tank power so far. So I'd suggest the vanilla Land Raider with lascannons.

The Redeemer is also great, though it's more anti-infantry - while the cannons are AP3 you'll only be able to line one up on a target at a time. However the ability to add a character or two to a full squad (or a Termie squad) can be a big deal, especially for charging Blood Angels.

The Crusader is not really worth it. Its firepower can be bought elsewhere under better options (Baal Predator and some Tactical Marines, not to mention the latter are troops) and its offset for this - the bigger transport capacity - only really sees use with Blood Angels if you're taking more than 5 Termies. At that point, you have a lot of your points/eggs in one basket, so to speak.

Short answer - figure out what unit you want to transport in relative safety, see if you want a character attached then pick either vanilla or Redeemer based on that.

I am with Super Ready 100%. The Godhammer Landraider is the best overall choice for BA right now because it provides much needed anti-tank &, thnx to the TL-LC, provides a small measure of anti-air if necessary - something BA are desperately short on. Anti-infantry via a LR isn't really necessary for an army that can spam excellent anti-infantry/horde firepower via flamers.

 warpspider89 wrote:
I am with Super Ready 100%. The Godhammer Landraider is the best overall choice for BA right now because it provides much needed anti-tank &, thnx to the TL-LC, provides a small measure of anti-air if necessary - something BA are desperately short on. Anti-infantry via a LR isn't really necessary for an army that can spam excellent anti-infantry/horde firepower via flamers.

So we're just ignoring the Stormraven or what?

 Super Ready wrote:
Unless you're packing a lot of melta, you seem to have little in the way of anti-tank power so far. So I'd suggest the vanilla Land Raider with lascannons.

The Redeemer is also great, though it's more anti-infantry - while the cannons are AP3 you'll only be able to line one up on a target at a time. However the ability to add a character or two to a full squad (or a Termie squad) can be a big deal, especially for charging Blood Angels.

The Crusader is not really worth it. Its firepower can be bought elsewhere under better options (Baal Predator and some Tactical Marines, not to mention the latter are troops) and its offset for this - the bigger transport capacity - only really sees use with Blood Angels if you're taking more than 5 Termies. At that point, you have a lot of your points/eggs in one basket, so to speak.

Short answer - figure out what unit you want to transport in relative safety, see if you want a character attached then pick either vanilla or Redeemer based on that.

Hey, thanks! That was helpful. I don't have much anti-armor, unless I convert my Devs to have something like Lascannons or multi-meltas. Would you recommend that for Devs?
And I probably will include Assault Terminators in my army, maybe with an attached Librarian in Termie armor.

If you aren't spamming them, the Stormraven is garbage. I prove it every time I take on GK players with one or two. The Stormraven, even spammed, is so inefficient, it has a ton of counters.

Martel732 wrote:
If you aren't spamming them, the Stormraven is garbage. I prove it every time I take on GK players with one or two. The Stormraven, even spammed, is so inefficient, it has a ton of counters.

I think there's some value for GK to run one...mind strike missiles are a nice counter to Screamerstars and Seer Councils. But yeah, for BA to run one is probably not a good idea.

All the land raiders are a lot of fun. I definitely recommend one, although I like all three standard variants. There is a benefit for buying a Crusader/Redeemer though because you can magnetize it and switch between the two, that type of versatility is great to have. Also, you can find lascannon sponsons and the twin linked heavy bolter for a Godhammer later down the road on eBay or here.

 BattleCapIronblood wrote:
Hey, thanks! That was helpful. I don't have much anti-armor, unless I convert my Devs to have something like Lascannons or multi-meltas. Would you recommend that for Devs?
And I probably will include Assault Terminators in my army, maybe with an attached Librarian in Termie armor.

Not a problem. Lascannons are really good, but expensive - not overly so, just so that they're a consideration rather than an auto-take, and that's how it should be. Multimeltas are a bit iffy as their short range means potentially putting them in danger. You'd need a counter-attack unit to be able to intercept anything looking to attack them, you'd also have to resist trying for the magical 12" bonus range - 4 S8 shots at AP1 is still good enough to put most vehicles down.

Of course, with melta, you have a very easy option of putting cheaper, moving meltas on Assault squads anyway as well as an Infernus pistol for overkill, so that's the better option there.

Assault Terminators with TH/SS are good - LCs, less so. Though admittedly if you can get the charge, having an extra point of Strength from a nearby Priest can work well (this is how I run mine, but then I put mine together before realising how much better TH/SS were...).

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:
I am with Super Ready 100%. The Godhammer Landraider is the best overall choice for BA right now because it provides much needed anti-tank &, thnx to the TL-LC, provides a small measure of anti-air if necessary - something BA are desperately short on. Anti-infantry via a LR isn't really necessary for an army that can spam excellent anti-infantry/horde firepower via flamers.

So we're just ignoring the Stormraven or what?

Tell me how a single model in an entire codex refutes my statement that BA are desperately short on anti-air firepower.

 warpspider89 wrote:
Tell me how a single *expensive* model in an entire codex refutes my statement that BA are desperately short on anti-air firepower.

Quoted and edited for truth, but on the flipside... we're still better off than some. Namely, Orks, Space Wolves and Sisters. Orks may have flyers of their own but the Stormraven is pretty darned solid in comparison.

It could be worse, but it should be better. Give us your Stormtalons dammit.

We can't field the damn Stormravens without the fuzzy dice and rotating rims. Ceramite armor, assault ramps, rear armor, it's all basically a waste of points. In some ways, those lists might be better off and not be tempted to try to counter air power. I've seen non-spammed Stormravens backfire way more than help. Including my own games. I have stopped using the Stormraven. I'd rather just forfeit to helldrake lists and have a better chance against everyone else. Because there's no way I'm buying more of a model I hate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Super Ready wrote:

 BattleCapIronblood wrote:
Hey, thanks! That was helpful. I don't have much anti-armor, unless I convert my Devs to have something like Lascannons or multi-meltas. Would you recommend that for Devs?
And I probably will include Assault Terminators in my army, maybe with an attached Librarian in Termie armor.

Not a problem. Lascannons are really good, but expensive - not overly so, just so that they're a consideration rather than an auto-take, and that's how it should be. Multimeltas are a bit iffy as their short range means potentially putting them in danger. You'd need a counter-attack unit to be able to intercept anything looking to attack them, you'd also have to resist trying for the magical 12" bonus range - 4 S8 shots at AP1 is still good enough to put most vehicles down.

Of course, with melta, you have a very easy option of putting cheaper, moving meltas on Assault squads anyway as well as an Infernus pistol for overkill, so that's the better option there.

Assault Terminators with TH/SS are good - LCs, less so. Though admittedly if you can get the charge, having an extra point of Strength from a nearby Priest can work well (this is how I run mine, but then I put mine together before realising how much better TH/SS were...).

I disagree about the MM. It's my favorite imperial heavy weapon. Marines are a mid range army anyway, so this weapon fits right in. The threatened area of an attack bike with a MM is much greater than a regular meltagun or infernus pistol.

I have to join in the Stormraven-bashing on this one. I played BA back in third, and came back after a years-long hiatus from 40k just in time for the advent of 6th ed. I proxied up two Stormravens and...well...yeah. I played two at 1500 points, which should seem like aerial dominance, but they just kept getting beat up. Plus using them for transport is even a worse idea... I ran DC and a DC dread in one and assult termies with a sang priest in the other. If either got shot down and the troops in it died (or mostly died), that's a third or more of my army gone right there. They're just impractical, I've decided. Sure, a flying that's an assault vehicle looks great on paper, but my experience in games has been very different.

Martel732 wrote:
The threatened area of an attack bike with a MM is much greater than a regular meltagun or infernus pistol.

Wait, Attack Bikes? *HELL* yes. I'll give you that. It's specifically Devastators - 5 expensive models with a 3+ save and 1W each - that I don't want getting that close.

My devastators are sitting on my shelf collecting dust. BA heavy support needs to be a) Stormraven spam b) Vindi spam or c) Whirlwinds to ignore cover. Maybe auto/las pred because of fast.

Devastators are blatantly inferior to all these choices for the BA. Also, these other choices don't tempt you to bring MLs, which suck out loud.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Laertes' Folly wrote:
I have to join in the Stormraven-bashing on this one. I played BA back in third, and came back after a years-long hiatus from 40k just in time for the advent of 6th ed. I proxied up two Stormravens and...well...yeah. I played two at 1500 points, which should seem like aerial dominance, but they just kept getting beat up. Plus using them for transport is even a worse idea... I ran DC and a DC dread in one and assult termies with a sang priest in the other. If either got shot down and the troops in it died (or mostly died), that's a third or more of my army gone right there. They're just impractical, I've decided. Sure, a flying that's an assault vehicle looks great on paper, but my experience in games has been very different.

If you spam them as gunships, you can get enough abuse out of the flier rules to be moderately competitive. But Necron air and Vendettas will still outclass you point for point. And of course, you just reserved a ton of your list, so if SW drop your depolyment zone, you just lose.

Sooo... Devs with missile launchers? I still don't know which way to go
I want something that can deal an even amount of damage towards most units. Missiles seem to go the right way.
Comments?

Well, as long as you don't care that it's a low amount of damage, by all means take missile launchers. I outlined above the current best BA heavy choices. Devastators are probably the worst choice.

Martel732 wrote:
Well, as long as you don't care that it's a low amount of damage, by all means take missile launchers. I outlined above the current best BA heavy choices. Devastators are probably the worst choice.

I went with Devs because they were the cheaper models.
I do hope that in the future I'll be able to afford some Preds.

Well, there's that consideration. GW stuff is so expensive now. I just don't know anymore...

Martel732 wrote:
Well, there's that consideration. GW stuff is so expensive now. I just don't know anymore...

Thank God for ebay and the swap shop...

If you're stuck with the Devastators, I would suggest one of the following combinations:

1) 4x plasma cannons
2) 4x lascannons
3) 2x of each (you can make this setup with what's in the box).

Plasma cannons are best used against tough infantry like Terminators, but will do against larger mobs too (they're still more effective than missile launchers for this, they're just a bit too expensive for the role).
Lascannons as mentioned previously are classic anti-tank although in a pinch they can also be useful against tough infantry - it's only having a single shot each that makes them less useful there.
Both are perfectly capable of taking on light vehicles (AV10/11 with a couple of hull points).

Heavy bolters would be a decent, cheap option for taking on large mobs but you already have that covered in your other units. Again, you need to build more units capable of taking on heavier stuff.

In general - try not to overdo it on your units' upgrades. Giving them all options to be able to take on every conceivable type of unit they might come across gets expensive *quick*, especially for Blood Angels, and at times it's impossible too (Devastators are never going to win close combat against a dedicated assault unit, for instance, so it's rarely worth giving the Sergeant anything). Instead, have a role in mind for each of your units, and stick to it.

Yeah, those options are more expensive, but certainly more effective on the battle field. AP 2 is better than ever with riptides running around. At least make them pop the the 3++, which the krak missile doesn't even make them bother with.