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Howdy guys, big time 40k daemons player here and I have decided to break into WFB as my local local club pretty much mainly plays this and warmachine.

Had a intro game few weeks back after reading the rule book, very easy for me to pick up the basics due to 40k so went for a bigger game last night, using wizards and a cannon.

My list last night was

Herald of Khorne, Blade of Blood for lesser reward.
Herald of Tzeentch, magic level 2 on burning chariot (first time I have got to use that model!)

39 blood letters with standard and musican
20 plague bearers with champion standard and musican
10 horrors
10 horrors

8 flesh hounds with ambushers

Skull cannon of khorne.

Faced off against a beastman list, Rougly he had

doombull

2 shamans, one level 1 one level 2

two chariots

big unit of like 30 gor herd maybe?

another small unit


unit of besitgors

small unit of harpies

think a spawn of chaos.


First two turns very slow, opponent was quite new as well, my flesh hounds got the charge off on the spawn and killed it but failed to over run to the chariot and a small unit of not sure what!. They then charged me with the hounds killing off the small unit and taking a turn or 2 to kill the chariot, taking one wound in return!. Opponent was quite impressed with them!. His doom bull got the charge off about turn 3 on the plague bearers, killing the champion, then a few more the next turn then a few more then next with me getting dbl 6 losing the unit :(. The big unit of gor's took charged into the blood letters taking 11 off them and losing about 6 in return, bloodletters then beat them and didnt run them down as the hounds were in place to charge turn 4 (didnt get that far in the end) and the doom bull had just charged into the burning chariot.

Horrors shot up the harpies then a unit of bowman? making them both panic and flee, they were then charged and slowly died, the cannon did squat all all game, one wound on the big squad I think.

Magic was interesting, as above the horrors did quite a few wounds with blue fire, quite impressed with that, I did get infernal gateway on the herald of tzeentch, was dispelled when trying to cast on the doombull from a scroll but finally got it off with irresible force later on on the bestigors I think, scored a 11 for str meaning 3d6 rolling a 12, then proceeded to roll 6 1's to wound :(.

Overall the hounds impressed me, didnt bother not deploying them (assuming I have the choice as they were ambushers?) they protected one flank well enough, the plague bearers were quite tough until the dbl 6 after losing combat, the minus 1 to hit in CC was good meaning 4's usually. The herald of tzeentch, hmm, I think if I got a lower cast value spell and the blue fire would have been more useful, blue fire being 5 to cast is very good meaning I could do a few of them. What would be better, few units of horrors for blue fire or a herald of tzeentch?.

The cannon was a let down, but it takes a knack to use it I think. Should my target of been the doombull rather then a big ranked unit?. I didnt take the bsb as I am not really sure on what they do yet! but I am pretty sure say nurgle cannot benefit from a khorne herald with it?.

The blood letters, big let down really, such a expensive squad and I was playing defensively with them not wanting to get charged, I did have a 7 inch charged which I failed and allowed me to get charged by his big unit :(

Should I be taking multiple small squads of bloodletters or a big unit?


I own,

Lord of change
Bloodthirster
3 daemon princes
herald of khorne
herald of khorne on jugger
3 heralds of tzeentch
4 heralds of tzeentch on disc (one can go on chariot)
Blue scribes

60 horrors
55 blood letters
20 plague bearers
20 daemonettes

2 nurgle beasts
3 fiends of slaanesh
skull cannon
2 burning chariots
9 flamers of tzeentch
30 flesh hounds
10 screamers of tzeentch
10 furies
3 nurgling bases


Our next game will be 1500pts, not many models I can fit in there!, sadly for the time being I am working with what I have got. What do you guys think I should run and how should I run them?, what will work well together and what wont?

At 1500 try mono khorne, put juggerbsb in hounds.
I think you will be surprised
I think you can just squueze in a bare thirster.
Go min on core with letters
Rest hounds
Will be very small but hit like a ton of bricks.
They will likely get one magic phase where you are not in combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Try proxing this for fun once!
Do an epi list use 2 units of pbs, several small beast one 5 big to park by epi.
Nurglings one or two to park in woods, scout.
Furies can be great! So many uses.
At 2000 use soul grinders

MarkyMark wrote:

Overall the hounds impressed me, didnt bother not deploying them (assuming I have the choice as they were ambushers?) they protected one flank well enough, the plague bearers were quite tough until the dbl 6 after losing combat, the minus 1 to hit in CC was good meaning 4's usually. The herald of tzeentch, hmm, I think if I got a lower cast value spell and the blue fire would have been more useful, blue fire being 5 to cast is very good meaning I could do a few of them. What would be better, few units of horrors for blue fire or a herald of tzeentch?.

Hounds are pretty boss and are a solid unit for combating enemy chaff units. ie: things like Fast Cavalry or skirmishers (but beware of Lizardmen Skinks and their poisoned shooting!), or small units of backfield troops like archers & war machines.
Ambushing with them means you can instantly avoid them getting chaffed up, but you cannot count on getting them engaged until Turn 3 at the earliest. Still, it's a solid option against more annoying armies like Elves or Dwarfs who can otherwise annoy the crap out of you with their backfield units & speed (in the case of elves obviously!)

Take the Tzherald off the chariot as it simply makes him cannon bait... While you can get some rather interesting results by slapping a Greater Locus on him, overall he's really lackluster and simply becomes a big target when on his own like that.
Give him an Exalted Locus and slap him one of your Horror units to help buff either Gateway or Firestorm or even Pink Fire... and in order to ensure you get a spell better suited for the Pinkies, roll your Tzherald's spells up first and just default to Blue Fire if you land Gateway on him. Having him end up with Treason is gold, and Glean Magic can be used against those enemy Lv2's.

With Horrors it's best to go MSU with them. They can't fight worth a damn, especially for their cost and they're stuck with one of the worst magic lores in the game. You honestly want to aim for either Gateway or Firestorm on them in order to make best use of the Lore Attribute of growing new models for the unit. Blue Fire is absolute crap at this unfortunately and should be avoided like one of Nurgle's favourite plagues.

MarkyMark wrote:
The cannon was a let down, but it takes a knack to use it I think. Should my target of been the doombull rather then a big ranked unit?. I didnt take the bsb as I am not really sure on what they do yet! but I am pretty sure say nurgle cannot benefit from a khorne herald with it?.

Do not aim at units with the Khannon unless you're able to line up a flank shot on some heavy cav or a monstrous unit. Aim instead at the enemy's big guys like those Monsters or chariots or lone Eagles/Beasts of Nurgle/Spawn. Otherwise aim specifically at a character in a unit as there's always a 16% chance of them failing their Look out Sir! roll and eating a cannonball in the face.
Just avoid shooting at anything that comes loaded with a 2++ vs Flaming Attacks. (ie: HE Dragon Princes and most fighty characters who are likely toting either the Dragonhelm or Dragonbane Gem or Dragon Armour I nthe case of HE's.)

MarkyMark wrote:
The blood letters, big let down really, such a expensive squad and I was playing defensively with them not wanting to get charged, I did have a 7 inch charged which I failed and allowed me to get charged by his big unit :(

Should I be taking multiple small squads of bloodletters or a big unit?

Honestly, Bloodletters suck in this book sadly... They're overcosted by about 2-3pts/model, have an innate ability that is entirely situational and require on of the game's outright worst characters to support them.

If you do use them, then you either 'go big or go home'. ie: bring 40 or don't bother! At T3/5++ they simply get torn to shreds by both shooting & magic, while most units either outnumber them or else will simply spank them.
For a supposedly 'elite combat unit', there's very, very little that's 'elite' about 'Letters... Daemonettes are cheaper, are still WS5, are miles faster and get better Locii abilities from cheaper Heralds who can also bring Shadow magic for added support, while Plaguebearers are among the kings of playing the attrition game and grinding units down.

It's also recommended you bring another large block to support your 'Letters and take some of the heat off of them since most opponents tend to have a rather irrational fear of them. Daemonettes make a decent enough companion since they can even slightly outpace the 'Letters, though giving a brick of Plaguebearers the +1movement banner works just as well.

MarkyMark wrote:

Our next game will be 1500pts, not many models I can fit in there!, sadly for the time being I am working with what I have got. What do you guys think I should run and how should I run them?, what will work well together and what wont?

If you're looking to simply be competitive, then Daemons will tend to revolve around;

GUO or Nurgle Prince or LoC w/Wand of Whimsy or Kipper (if going for a Caco-bomb) for Lord choices

Nurgle BSB w/Regen Locus + sometimes Fencer's Blades.
Lv2 Tzheralds on foot or Slaanesh Herald/s w/Lesser Locus (if on foot) or Greater/Exalted Locus (if mounted and joining Fiends) or another Nurgle Herald/s
Epidemius if going full-on Nurgle and you really don't like your opponent/friends very much!

25-30 Plaguebearer brick for BSB to hide in
2-3x 10 man Pink Horror units (you want Gateway/Firestorm/Pink Fire on these units, so roll spells for your Tzheralds first!!!)
20-25 Plaguebearers or 30-40 Daemonettes or occasionally if you feel like a huge challenge, 40+ Bloodletters & Hatred Herald.

4-6 Beasts of Nurgle as super hitty unit
2x solo Beast of Nurgle + 2x 5 MoN Fuires + 1x 5 Furies (all your chaffing needs!)
6 Fiends (if running a Caco-bomb list)
1-2x 5-6 Ambushing Flesh Hounds

2x Khannons (pretty much an auto-include)
1-2x 3 Plaguedrones (a really, really solid option for carrying the Flaming Banner - basically they fulfill the same role as Flesh Hounds, but don't require outflank to get into the backfield fast!)
Nurgle Grinder w/stone thrower or flame thrower upgrade (especially useful in an Epidemius list for fast Tally building!)
1-2 Burning Chariots if you like to keep things more Tzeentch-heavy.

Outside of that, you really start to suffer as units like 'Letters, 'Crushers, Flamers especially, the Slaany chariots, etc... are just crap for their points costs.

Thanks for the responses guys. I forgot to write how the game went.

The horrors killed all but 2 of the harpies in one volley, and all but 2 of a squad of beastman with bows? not sure what unit they were!. Both failed their panic tests and run away but couldnt finish them off, the hounds killed a spawn who they charged failed to over run into another infantry unit and chariot, which they then killed after (only taking one wound in the process, rolling good rolling for them!).

The plague bearers killed another chariot, with wizard on I think, they then died to dbl6 after losing a few to the doom bull.

In the end complete units I lost were one squad of 10 horrors, 20 plague bearer squad, and that was it in 3 and a half turns. I had killed two chariots, a spawn, 2 units of infantry. So quite close considering my list building was pretty random!.

I would rather learn the system first with what I had before going competitive and even then I will probably keep it fun as 40k is my competitive fix!.

The BSB, if it is on a khorne unit, can a nurgle unit use the re roll?, or is it only the Inspriring prescence from the general of a different god I cannot use?

I think I will try out a BSB on khorne herald, haterd locus with the bloodletters next time (mainly as I havent got a nurgle herald or slaanesh herald YET), maybe a basic prince as my HQ 5 hounds and 2 beasts of nurgle, blob of bloodletters and some horrors and plague bearers again next time.

What is Caco bomb?

MarkyMark wrote:

Thanks for the responses guys. I forgot to write how the game went.

The horrors killed all but 2 of the harpies in one volley, and all but 2 of a squad of beastman with bows? not sure what unit they were!. Both failed their panic tests and run away but couldnt finish them off, the hounds killed a spawn who they charged failed to over run into another infantry unit and chariot, which they then killed after (only taking one wound in the process, rolling good rolling for them!).

The plague bearers killed another chariot, with wizard on I think, they then died to dbl6 after losing a few to the doom bull.

In the end complete units I lost were one squad of 10 horrors, 20 plague bearer squad, and that was it in 3 and a half turns. I had killed two chariots, a spawn, 2 units of infantry. So quite close considering my list building was pretty random!.

Be very careful when aiming who you magic with those Horrors, as Warpflame can really turn around and bite you in the arse...
Hence why Blue Fire is such a bad spell - sure it's not too bad vs weak little unit of naked chaff, but anything even slightly armoured and/or more numerous than 5-6 models can easily end up building a highly annoying Regen save. Plus, Blue Fire really doesn't get much benefit from the Lore Attribute of adding more Horrors to the unit.
Thus why Gateway & Firestorm are the best spells to aim for on Horrors; both can hit lots of models and at decent strength, meaning they can tackle otherwise troublesome things like 2+ or 1+ save Knights, or else knock multiple ranks off of an infantry unit AND grow more Pinkies at reliable rates!

To combat enemy chaff/chaff removers like those Harpies & Ungor Skirmishers (the bow-armed dudes), you're better off sending your chaff such as small flocks of Furies, solo Beasts of Nurgle, Seekers of Slaanesh, Flesh Hounds and/or Screamers.
Far less risk of having your magic & gimmicky Warpfire rule blow-up in your face!

MarkyMark wrote:
I would rather learn the system first with what I had before going competitive and even then I will probably keep it fun as 40k is my competitive fix!.

The BSB, if it is on a khorne unit, can a nurgle unit use the re roll?, or is it only the Inspriring prescence from the general of a different god I cannot use?

I think I will try out a BSB on khorne herald, haterd locus with the bloodletters next time (mainly as I havent got a nurgle herald or slaanesh herald YET), maybe a basic prince as my HQ 5 hounds and 2 beasts of nurgle, blob of bloodletters and some horrors and plague bearers again next time.

Fair enough! If you want to keep things strictly friendly/fluffy/non-'uber competitive, then you can pretty much use anything you want really, just as long as you accept that a lot of our unit & character options really are quite sub-par...
Khorne in general for example is horrifically over-costed! Sure mono-Khorne/Khorne-centric can win, but it's basically like playing the game on lunatic mode for example!


As for how our BSB & Inspiring Presence works, basically, it only effects units of the same 'mark' as the BSB/General.
So a Khorne Herald BSB for example can only give his 'Hold Your Ground' rule to; Bloodthirsters, DP of Khorne, Heralds of Khorne, Bloodletters, Bloodcrushers, Flesh Hounds, Khannons. Nothing else gets to re-roll Instability tests.
Ditto goes for the General's 'Inspiring Presence' rule.
(and yes, this is obnoxiously stupid that we got stuck with such an idiotic gimmick!!! All that needed to happen honestly was to deny those rules to the opposing God's units - ie: BSB of Khorne cannot give benefit to any Slaaneshii units)

 nathan2004 wrote:
What is Caco bomb?

Take a Lv4 Kipper, plus at least one Lv1 Herald of Slaanesh to basically ensure your Lv4 lands the spell Cacophonic Choir.
March your Kipper plus an accompanying unit of Fiends into the center of your opponent's battle line, (with a 20" march that's dead simple to boot!), then 6-dice the area-effect version of Caco.
Profit?!

Basically you aim to nail as many enemy units as possible with the 2D6/wounds on 4+/no armour save hits AND inflict all those units with ASL + Random Movement (D6) rules, provided you cause at least 1 unsaved wound.
Oh, and for each wound caused you roll a dice, on a 6 you get to add a brand new Fiend to that nearby unit as an added perk thanks to the Lore Attribute! Its quite possible to triple or even quadruple a 6-man Fiend unit in a single casting providing you catch enough units.

In a mono-Slaanesh army, you effectively trade some minor damage on your Lv4 to instantly win the movement phase for the rest of the game.
For added insult, if your Kipper survives and doesn't lose the spell, you can do it again next turn to really make people cry! (and prove you can be the ultimate Warhammer Troll AND that Daemons are still broken...)

^Thanks man.

So Third game tonight, 2400pts against a tourny list, thought I would throw myself under the bus so to speak!.

I was running

Daemon prince nurgle with wings and armour lvl4 on the nurgle table.

Herald of khorne with locus of wrath
Herald tzeentch on disc level 2 wizard
Herald tzeentch on disc level 2 wizard

24 bloodletters
15 plague bearers (left some at home should have been 20)
19 daemonettes
10 horrors
10 horrors

3 fiends of slaanesh
beast of nurgle
beast of nurgle

Well the beasts were the stars for sure, holding up the left flank of big blob of clan rats and hellpit for most of the game, finally dying off. The clan rats failing fear tests and having to hit on 6;s was very nice!.

Bloodletters and plague bearers charged a unit with a bell slowly dying off to magic and close combat and toughness tests, they were unbreakable when I won combat once or twice.

Daemonettes charged turn 1 and killed a unit of clan rats but then was run over by doom wheel and wiped out on dbl6 after losing a few :(

Prince charged into combat and beat a large unit of skaven but again a bell thing made them unbreakable, next turn I suffered one wound, from 1 hit out of 5 attacks (twice in a row this happened!) thunderstomp was good though , anyway it was tied and he had a musician, ended up losing 3 wounds which was bye bye general :(

Heralds were fun zipping around, horrors not so good got one good bolt of change off nearly killing the hellpit until I rolled a 1 on d3 wounds :(

Fiends charged into a big unit then lost 6 in return and lost the last wounds to DI

Overall the stars were the beasts of nurgle for sure. I should have gone after the bells that were making him unbreakable really, with either shooting or the prince but I didnt know you could do that lol. Horrors, meh, had bolt of change on one and something crap on the other, heralds had 1 infernal between them and other crap powers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Next game I intend to try out at 2400

Daemon prince Khorne, Flight and Armour
Daemon prince Khorne, Armour, general

Herald of Khorne on chariot with hatred locus and BSB

30 Bloodletters, banner champion and musican
30 Bloodletters, banner champion and musican

10 Flesh hounds of khorne
9 furies with daemon of khorne

Skull cannon (or stuff it and go for 2 beasts of nurgle!)