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With the release of the black legion supplement I was really hoping for them to get termies as troops, even tho i dont play CSM anymore id still love to fight a CSM army with termies as troops. Abbadon was supposed to be followed with his termie guard and it would have just made better sense if they put it in there than in any other supplement. Well this had me thinking, how would CSM still get termies as troops? then it hit me! The Fallen!

With the Dark Angels all up in arms about their brothers who have gone rogue running around i feel it would make somewhat ok sense if they maybe got the supplement that allowed them (only the fallen of coarse) to be ran with CSM.This in return could allow CSM to have Termies as troop and offer some really fun ally combos. The fallen could have access to alot of what DA has but with a chaos twist of coarse, Cypher can finally have a rule set!(he is one of my favorite models and fluff) and Chaos can have that much more variety to bring em closer to the variety vanilla marines have. Daemons could pair with em, DA players would have people to truly call their nemesis and hold grudge matches against, and it would open up more options for fluff both in terms of background and gameplay. Termies deepstriking, helldrakes flying around cooking up supper, and a new way to defy the false emperor!

Now the supplement probably couldnt be paired with its primary book in that they are hated enemies and so GW could make a valid point on why not to do it, but it could open up a few new models to be made, maybe a conversion kit? I would convert my DA into fallen if i had a supplement to back them up, and since i dont see any other war GW could make a supplement for DA if they were going to I say why not?

GW is going to push out all these supplements for the new vanilla marines, why cant they think about the early 6th edition armies that can use the help? We all know as codex's get release they seem to get more better and better, so why not try to balance out the game a bit more by giving the earlier armies a little boost here and there? Could you picture these termies that are warped a little, half daemon possessed (not like obliterators and mutalators tho, they are too possessed lol) with maybe a extra wound and a price increase just to make them a little more unique?

So what do you guys think? Any rules you would want to see in there? Any ideas for match ups and armies?

I no longer play chaos, and to tell you the truth im getting bored of my deathwing, but if this came to light, i would be back in a flash! Hell i would love just to play against the army.

Question is, did RW exist before the HH? If not, then the Fallen can't use RW. Not sure what else they wouldn't be able to use, maybe the flyers as well.

I would love a Fallen suplemental for DA. I would like to see how they behave and exist in the year 40 000 since they can just be transported there, or if they actually lived that long.

Also to see if they met fellow Fallen to set up a Warband or a chapter.

I would also like successor chapters for The Unforgiven as well.

It's a bit weird, really. They wouldn't have Ravenwing OR Deathwing - they might have bikers and Termies, but they shouldn't really have the special rules and weapon options that they do. On the flipside, they should be something different than just "black Chaos Marines variant #2".

I believe the ravenwing were around before the heresy, if not I'm sure the fallen adapted over time to survival and fighting in low numbers.

It's also not to unbelievable that they could have formed a collective warband as they found eachother after the toss up in the warp.

Any ideas how you'd make em different Super Ready? I agree they should have a unique feel on table.

Neat idea, and would love to see it, but don't see why the Fallen would have a major thing for termies as troops since the Death Wing concept formed later in the chapter history if memory serves. Although I will admit it doesn't always these days.

Ravenwing was also created as a force to enact the hunt for the Fallen, so again they wouldn't be present in a Fallen force either. Of course if you want to play Fallen like regular DA one can just use the DA codex and call them fallen and paint them black instead of green. QED. Or you can find another book like CSM or even another marine codex to use to represent them on the table and their likely non-codex related methods.

Nothing really stops anyone from creating a

Skriker

I would love rules for cypher and a fallen supplement.

The interesting thing about it though is that it would be 1 fallen per army, in black armour, and without any of the stuff DA are known for.

The ravenwing and deathwing were both created in response to the hunt for the fallen. They are part of the inner circle who hunt for and capture the fallen. The bone white and green are post heresy colors. The original legion 1 is black a bit like ravenwing. So I have no idea how you would handle such a supplement. Perhaps more infiltrating abilities and stealth/spec ops based units/wargear? This would represent their abilities to hide from the hunt.

I was just thinking about this. My thoughts were along the lines of, and hear me out, veterans as troops. It would be something that they can't already do, and would seem rather fluffy. Then you do something like "Cypher's Warband" and have veterans purchased with Cypher that would have access to stat upgrades to supe them up (still fluffy). You could also allow them to ally with CSM. Drop the Inner Circle special rule and replace it with something to help make the army function (rules upgrades, FOC manipulation, etc.)

The problems would come with the handling of RW units, DW units, and special characters. The generic units can't be just taken away w/o ruining the army; they would have to be tweaked a bit.


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 ansacs wrote:
I would love rules for cypher and a fallen supplement.

The interesting thing about it though is that it would be 1 fallen per army, in black armour, and without any of the stuff DA are known for.

The ravenwing and deathwing were both created in response to the hunt for the fallen. They are part of the inner circle who hunt for and capture the fallen. The bone white and green are post heresy colors. The original legion 1 is black a bit like ravenwing. So I have no idea how you would handle such a supplement. Perhaps more infiltrating abilities and stealth/spec ops based units/wargear? This would represent their abilities to hide from the hunt.

You could have more than 1 fallen DA. Some operate in warbands and recruit CSM and cultists.

If the Fallen were their own supplement, it would make more sense as a CSM or SM add on. They don't share anything with the DA that would make sense to supplement.

I also find it unlikely that they would get a supplement at all (but would buy it if they did).

I like the idea of the fallen as a supplement but I doubt it will happen. If not the fallen then what for dark angels??? The sad truth is I doubt we will see supplements for da sw ba ect. The ravenwing did exist before the hh. It is mentioned in decent if angels as knights of the order who were used as calvary troops.As far as deathwing I don't know. Reintroducing cypher I strongly doubt will happen as he has become more then just a rogue for da historians. He is kind of a legend, but I can see with this new trilogy of books the, legacy of caliban, may finally catch up with cypher. I would really love to see a "fallen" supplement but I don't see much chaos being involved. As the alpha legion went renegade they didn't turn to chaos. Luther did the same he didn't turn to chaos he just rebelled against the lion. I could see something like that being done but I highly doubt there will be any chaos taint to the da supplement.

I think the fallen would do better of placed in the warhammer 30k stuff fw is doing.

On a side note I would kill to see a deathwatch supplement, right?

I would sooooo buy a fallen supplement. I love dark angels, though i'm not much of a chaos space marine guy.

I'd make an exception for Fallen and Cypher.

Well the ravenwing kinda started on Caliban they were the elite riders that scouted and fought with the lion as they purged all the monsters from the planet. It may not have become part of the legions doctrine until later but the foundation is there for the fallen to have access to a RW like force. Deathwing came later for sure though.

Here's the perfect book for you right here if you want to play some fallen.

Keep in mind that the Fallen are about 2 companies tops spread across the whole galaxy, so keep in mind there is no way they could fight as a conventional army especially since finding even one of them is a rare event, let alone 2 or more in the same place and time.

 Krellnus wrote:
Here's the perfect book for you right here if you want to play some fallen.

Keep in mind that the Fallen are about 2 companies tops spread across the whole galaxy, so keep in mind there is no way they could fight as a conventional army especially since finding even one of them is a rare event, let alone 2 or more in the same place and time.

There was more then a chapter of dark angels on caliban when it was destroyed

 Krellnus wrote:
Here's the perfect book for you right here if you want to play some fallen.

Keep in mind that the Fallen are about 2 companies tops spread across the whole galaxy, so keep in mind there is no way they could fight as a conventional army especially since finding even one of them is a rare event, let alone 2 or more in the same place and time.

Space is very big. VERY VERY big. Whose to say you can't find alot of them together? Maybe they are just that good at hiding?

While yes it is very rare to have Fallen together, it makes a very VERY boring game of 40K having just one Fallen vs DA or anyone else.

So just like how the ALL MIGHTY POWERFUL SPACE MARINES hide and cower in vehicles in games, (not suppose to happen they are suppose to be out in the fight) more than one Fallen, hell even a company of them can be in a game. (even though it goes against the fluff as well.)

When it comes to gaming anything can happen.

I agree with the question as to whether the supplement should be DA, SM or CSM.

I agree that Fallen might not fit in well with the existing DA book.

The real question would be however, if a supplement was released for DA, what could it be besides Fallen? The successor chapters really do not have enough of an existing back story to warrant their own codex.

As a DA player I want something to happen, but besides the Fallen the options are pretty limited.
Ideally I would like to see a Fallen codex focusing on Cypher, with a progression of his story line.
Perhaps move them away from chaos and expand more on Cyphers quest on reaching terra (redemption?).
But don't make them part of the Imperium, rather have them as a third party not truly trusted by either side.

Ive pointed this out before but there are several later founding chapters based on the DA geneseed that have gone haywire, the Relictors even have their own rules in WD from a bit ago governing their damngerous and ultimately catastrophic over use of demon relics/weapons/Icons, Ide see it more likely theyd be paired with other "Renegades" versus "Traitors" I would see the distinction being directly visible in their vehicle and weapon choices. That said I think this is has already been demonstrated a task for WD article not a dex and your wallet should be THANKFUL

Rules for Cypher and the Fallen should come out as a WD release. Have them only able to be allies and not a main detachment, and allow them to be allies of convenience with SM, CSM, IG and a few other Factions, but unable to ally with DA.

Dream but ... if it was going to happen it would have around the time the DA codex hit, with the hype of dark vengeance / chaos dex / da dex gone I have a feeling anything fallen related is going to be waiting another 10+ years for codex updates again.


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Well .... maybe if forgeworld gets a hold of it, but I wouldn't hope too much for it

 Whereswaldo wrote:
Dream but ... if it was going to happen it would have around the time the DA codex hit, with the hype of dark vengeance / chaos dex / da dex gone I have a feeling anything fallen related is going to be waiting another 10+ years for codex updates again.


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Well .... maybe if forgeworld gets a hold of it, but I wouldn't hope too much for it

With the release of grav weapons and some new plastic kits, it may be in GW's interest to make a supplement to DA which includes some of them, simply to ship more of the new models to a wider audience.

The supplement should be The Unforgiven and deal with the Guardians and such. That could work

So what kind of DA fallen rules would you guys like to see? any ideas on how we can run them? I was thinking it would be a nice way to get a sorc with divination powers.