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Can't find the rule, but a guy I play insists... can Dreadknights, Riptides, or Writhknights issue challenges?

If they are a Character,then yes.
Being a Monstrous Creature has nothing to do with it.

Tervigons, Avatars, Wraithlords can but that's because they are Characters. Those you cited cannot as far as I know ( there's a character riptide in the Farsight tau supplement I think)

The Dreadknight is a character.
Wraithknights and Riptides I don't know.

Riptide is not, no idea bout the wraithknight.

Annoying on one side since it doesnt get precision hits by default but then again unless you have an HBC he isnt going to get them anyway. Challenges.....well it could force it into a 1on1 situation i guess which would be beneficial to the Tau player by far.

Being a MC also doesnt mean theyre fearless, which i thought htey did when i initially started running riptides and was confused why everyone said they werent fearless lol.

There must be some reason that some MC have character status and others don't. Hopefully, it's a rules decision that is somehow factored into the points, and not just a fluff-based one tacked on for sixth edition. When I saw a Wraithlord put a precision hit on the one power fist model it was fighting, I thought it was a brilliant idea. Then I learned my Talos' aren't characters...

The Dreadknight is a character.

To find out if your MC is a character, check its entry if its rules were written after 6th edition and the reference section of the rulebook if its rules were written before 6th edition.

 Oaka wrote:
There must be some reason that some MC have character status and others don't. Hopefully, it's a rules decision that is somehow factored into the points, and not just a fluff-based one tacked on for sixth edition. When I saw a Wraithlord put a precision hit on the one power fist model it was fighting, I thought it was a brilliant idea. Then I learned my Talos' aren't characters...

Being a character is largely detrimental to Monstrous Creatures as it allows your opponent to tie them up in a challenge so that they waste all their attacks on the 1 character instead of destroying the unit. I doubt its factored into the points but if it was I'd hope characters get a points reduction for having to deal with challenges.

A challenge they'll more than likely win.

With the added advantage of Precision Strikes and Precision Shots (most MC's carry some big guns). Definitely worth a price increase, not a reduction.

The winning isn't the point, the point is that your opponent can just feed a sergeant to them, wasting all of their high strength ap 2 attacks. It also makes getting them with Mindshackle Scarabs ridiculously easy. Maybe the precision shots could be worth it for the few MCs that do poorly in combat and want to avoid it, like the Riptide and... uh... yeah, the Riptide. I would gladly remove character status from every MC in my codex if I could.

And there are also times when throwing out a challenge with a MC is advantageous.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
The winning isn't the point, the point is that your opponent can just feed a sergeant to them, wasting all of their high strength ap 2 attacks. It also makes getting them with Mindshackle Scarabs ridiculously easy. Maybe the precision shots could be worth it for the few MCs that do poorly in combat and want to avoid it, like the Riptide and... uh... yeah, the Riptide. I would gladly remove character status from every MC in my codex if I could.

When I charge with Tervigons I challenge all the time.
Kill the sarge on my turn, eat the squad on their turn, free to act on my turn without getting shot.

The MC would want the challenge even with no-name character #5501 because almost every character has a bigger toy and it usually has an ap value on it. What space marine doesnt have a power sword? Thats AP3 and pens Tyrant armor, so hes going to want to take that thing out before it can even swing. Same for Nobz with PKs.

Thats why i hate challenges. It makes it too easy to single out and dissolve those characters whose only purpose is to hide behind his troops and smack something his buddies cant hurt that well. Not push ahead of them and go "HEY! YOU! YOU AND ME RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW!" lol

rigeld2 wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
The winning isn't the point, the point is that your opponent can just feed a sergeant to them, wasting all of their high strength ap 2 attacks. It also makes getting them with Mindshackle Scarabs ridiculously easy. Maybe the precision shots could be worth it for the few MCs that do poorly in combat and want to avoid it, like the Riptide and... uh... yeah, the Riptide. I would gladly remove character status from every MC in my codex if I could.

When I charge with Tervigons I challenge all the time.
Kill the sarge on my turn, eat the squad on their turn, free to act on my turn without getting shot.

My opponents are never stupid enough to accept a challenge from my Tervigon, they've all learned to deny it to give themselves a better chance of failing morale and escaping combat, which is exactly the opposite of what you want them to do.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
The MC would want the challenge even with no-name character #5501 because almost every character has a bigger toy and it usually has an ap value on it. What space marine doesnt have a power sword? Thats AP3 and pens Tyrant armor, so hes going to want to take that thing out before it can even swing. Same for Nobz with PKs.

Thats why i hate challenges. It makes it too easy to single out and dissolve those characters whose only purpose is to hide behind his troops and smack something his buddies cant hurt that well. Not push ahead of them and go "HEY! YOU! YOU AND ME RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW!" lol

Ok, the rare Power Klaw/Power FIst guy that barely anyone takes any more is a good target for a challenge, but Mr. I-wound-on-6s-with-my-power-sword is not exactly what I'd call a threat.

I believe the whole point of challenges was to stop the whole "I hide behind my guys whacking you with a Power Klaw, have fun trying to wade through all these Ork Boys before I cheap-shot you death".

 PrinceRaven wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
The winning isn't the point, the point is that your opponent can just feed a sergeant to them, wasting all of their high strength ap 2 attacks. It also makes getting them with Mindshackle Scarabs ridiculously easy. Maybe the precision shots could be worth it for the few MCs that do poorly in combat and want to avoid it, like the Riptide and... uh... yeah, the Riptide. I would gladly remove character status from every MC in my codex if I could.

When I charge with Tervigons I challenge all the time.
Kill the sarge on my turn, eat the squad on their turn, free to act on my turn without getting shot.

My opponents are never stupid enough to accept a challenge from my Tervigon, they've all learned to deny it to give themselves a better chance of failing morale and escaping combat, which is exactly the opposite of what you want them to do.

If he decides to cower in fear thats still one less Krak/Melta attack... I'm okay with that.

 grendel083 wrote:
And there are also times when throwing out a challenge with a MC is advantageous.

Indeed. My Dreadknight does it all the time for example.

It ensures I won't annihilate the squad in one turn. Meaning I'm safely locked in melee during the enemy's shooting phase. Then I can demolish the squad on their turn and be free to assault something else on my turn.

It seems like a lot of people only utilize challenges to work within the rules of the game that they aren't meant to portray. It's not the best fighters of each unit dueling for the glory of the unit in general, but rather a way for a unit to stay in combat or leave combat, depending on the situation.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
And there are also times when throwing out a challenge with a MC is advantageous.

Indeed. My Dreadknight does it all the time for example.

It ensures I won't annihilate the squad in one turn. Meaning I'm safely locked in melee during the enemy's shooting phase. Then I can demolish the squad on their turn and be free to assault something else on my turn.

Where do you people keep finding these opponents dumb enough to accept the challenge? It's not like you exclusively fight CSM.

It depends. But actually either way its beneficial.

Say its a squad with a PF armed sergeat(or any character)

If they refuse the challenge, their best chance for wounding me is not attacking, so I murder a chunk of the squad. If they do accept, I punk him before he swings.

Against Space Marines, it means I'm safely stuck in combat unless they fail the morale test and I fail to catch them to keep them locked.


I almost always issue a challenge. They may or may not accept it. That is variable, but I always challenge if they have a PF or other AP2 weapon that might be able to hurt me.

I find it tends to go like this:
1. I issue a challenge
2. They decline
3. MC kills half of squad.
4. squad fails their ld 4-6 test and runs away.
5. MC gets shot down on opponent's turn.

I'd rather not challenge and have them more likely to pass the leadership test.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I find it tends to go like this:
1. I issue a challenge
2. They decline
3. MC kills half of squad.
4. squad fails their ld 4-6 test and runs away.
5. MC gets shot down on opponent's turn.

I'd rather not challenge and have them kill my MC with the power fist.

FTFY

Who runs Power Fist sergeants in 6th?

fisti claw chaos terminators thats who

their also good on zerker sargents if you need to kill a tank

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Who runs Power Fist sergeants in 6th?

Orks.

Or space wolves/BTs, because they can take unchallengeable PFs.

And really the argument applies to anything with a melee weapon capable of being dangerous to the MC in question.

It all depends in the situation. The only time I will always issue a challenge it when their character has a high strength ID weapon, less initiative than me and I don't have Iron Arm up. (no Iron Arm HT is sad HT )

even if it wasnt ID but just high strength and pen'd your armor you'd challenge. My PK nob wont paste you but i'll sure as hell give you a whoopping if you dont kill me first and a challenge guarantees that (i highly, highly doubt a HT will wiff ALL his attacks...)