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So after a long time i decided to restart warhammer and this is my old 5th list modified a bit, any thoughts?
HQ
Company command squad x3 melta (vendetta)
Company command squad x1 snipers,MOO

Elites
Marbo

Troops
Platoon command squad x3 flamers,H.flamer,chimera
Infantry squad autocannon
Infantry squad autocannon
Veterans x3 melta (vendetta)
Veterans x3 melta,chimera

Fast attack
vendetta
vendetta
Bane wolf smoke launchers

Heavy support
Demolisher plasma cannon,lasscannon
Manticore
Manticore

Fortifications
Bastion (to house CCS and maybe an inf. squad

P.S First time i use lasscannon with demo,i usually used h.bolter but with the new rules about heavy vehicles i think it might worth it,what do you think? lasscannon or maybe add some snipers to company command squad?
P.S 2 Also,what would you add/modify to make it a 1850 list ?

No never upgrade a demolisher or a battle tank. Just because its heavy doesnt mean it helps. Look at the profiles for ordnance. If an ordncance weapons fires all other weapons have to snap fire. Heavy just means you can't move fast than 6" and can fire all weapons. But because the demolisher cannon an battle cannon are ordnance they have to snap fire everything else. So never upgrade those 2 tanks. Any other russ would be great for a lascannon and whatever sponsons compliment it.

Ooh damn ,those plasma sponsons really complimented well the anti-termie use of the demolisher...
Thank you for your information
Apart from that, what do you think of the list ?

I'd drop the PCS chimera, it is less useful for the PCS. The other option is to move it to the other vet squad, and give your CCS one, giving you a nice mechanised component for rapid-redeployment and counter-attack. In most cases, I'd advise against using the Vendetta as a transport for anything more than a throwaway unit.

I'd drop the sponsons and LC on the demolisher, and use the points to upgrade the AC on the infantry to LC, it makes them more useful against high AV and MCs. That should also give you points to give them meltas as well, for more defensive firepower, and the LC should give you points for the Standard on the CCS, which is pretty vital to stop your guys running.

The other option here is to simply swap the Demolisher for a Vanquisher with LC/PC, as they are better against high AV, MCs and TEQ than the demolisher thanks to far better range and the ability to fire all weapons.

Other than that the list is good, although I'd swap the Bane-Wolf for a Hellhound personally. For expansion to 1850, I'd suggest either upgrading both IS to the LC/MG setup if you choose to go with the LC/PC vanquisher, and possibly get another one of these squads if you have the points. I'd also swap the Bastion for an ADL, as getting good cover for your infantry is vital.

First of all thank you very much for your time and your quite thorough post.
1)I always thought that giving your IS heavy/specialist weapons was a bit waste because of their BS 3 , other that autocannon etc(weapons with at least 2 shots)
2)Again, with Leman's Bs3 and the point cost of the Vanquisher, playing the chanses with the main weapon is really worth it? How about an executioner? (although it's quiet damn expensive)
3)I kept bane wolf for it's potential as marine killer,although hellhound's weapon has great range, it lacks it's AP 3 and +2 wound.(combined with the lack of Demo,i think i will have a tough time against ap 3/ap 2 armies laike marines,chaos and the like
4) By removing the chimera from my PCS won't it's loose it's potential because of it's flamers? How about moving PCS to 1 of the vendettas?
5)I suppose that the hover option is out of the question in vendettas as i had thought? (for disembarking ofc)

Thank you again for your time

I see your point regarding the BS of the IS, but the problem is that without good upgrades, they just become objective sitters and contribute nothing either offensively or defensively. The major advatage IG have ver other armies is the ability to bring huge amounts of heavy/special or relatively cheap carriers. On the whole, if your LC IS gets even one tank, it has probably more than earned it's points back, and with BID from the CCS, then you can pretty easily do this.

The problem with the demo/lrbt is that they can't use sponsons or other hull weapons, which severely limits their firepower. I use a PC/LC Vanquisher most of the time and they are great, BS3 means that at least on of the LC/main gun will hit, and the PC sponsons can hurt light vehicles, put wounds on MCs and blast MEQ/TEQ. You also have to remember that against vehicles, you can get a maximum of one hit on them with the demo/LRBT, wheras the Vanquisher will average 2+ if it fires everything. This setup can handle MEQ/TEQ just as well as the LRBT with the massed AP2 and larger number of shots.

Executioners are generally too specialised to be good in a TAC list, if you see a lot of footslogging terminators/marines, then grab one (I'd leave the sponsons off, they get too expensive), but otherwise the LC/PC vanquisher is better.

The problem with the Bane Wolf is that, unless you destroy all targets within 12" of it when firing the main gun, it will get absolutely wrecked in assault the next turn, with no way out. The Hellhound mitigates this with the better range, and the AP4 ignores cover torrent template is very good against the xenos armies (which are far more prevalent now than in 5th)

The flamer PCS is best used as a counter-attack unit like this: deploy it behind your infantry, issuing orders ect, and wait for something to charge your platoon. When your platoon dies (and it will), then move up the PCS and drop 4 flamer templates on the charging unit. This puts down enough wounds on TEQ/MEQ to force saves and kill them that way, and can destroy hordes as well. The can be used in the Vendetta, but I'd on'y advise this if you aren't relying on orders, or have a spare PCS from another platoon. The other option if you want this kind of fast, mass-template unit is to take a 3-flamer SWS in a Vendetta, and drop them onto an objective late-game.

Moving the Chimera to your vets, and taking one for your CCS as well, gives you great and fast defensive units that can move to counter any threat and put out a lot of short-range firepower. If needed, they can also form an aggressive element, but this is generally a secondary purpose to acting as rapid defence.

The Vendatta can go into hover-mode to disembark for a turn and probably survive, but the problem is this: if you make your flier vulnerable for a single turn, then in that turn your opponent is likely to take the chance and hit the flier with everything he can to bring it down. Also, the reason I don't suggest using it as a transport for anything other than a throwaway scoring unit is that there are huge risks to the unit if it is shot down, and the unit won't be shooting most of the game anyway, so it is a waste of something like vets that you need on the ground, preferably in a chimera.

If you would like to see a general guide to guard in 6th, check out the link in the second line of my sig, I go through every unit and how to use it, as well as stuff on strategy and tactics. It's long, but you might find it helpful if you haven't played in a while.

Hope that helps.

Well Paradigm beat me to it but basically everything he said is what I would recommend, I dont know if it was mentioned but I would drop the bastion down to an aegis line so you can protect more of your vehicles turn 1 and so on if they stay put.

Even though the vanq is expensive with LC/PC remember that the demolisher with the LC/PC was more expensive. The executioner is a great tank but it you add the LC/PC onto it then it will surely get expensive but it really will be great at targeting meq/teq and light armor. The vanq covers basically all fields but doesnt do so great when it comes to geq and horde armies but the sponsons do add the ability to put out a couple of wounds with each shot.

Well,thank you again fro your time,both !

You have raised some interesting points and being a noob that i am i will follow them (you are quite convincing)
One last thing,how about removing PC from the vanquisher and add commander Pask(bs4,cracked shot)? although i won't have anything reliable versus MEQ/TEQ

Well Paradigm beat me to it but basically everything he said is what I would recommend, I dont know if it was mentioned but I would drop the bastion down to an aegis line so you can protect more of your vehicles turn 1 and so on if they stay put.

Well,i think i am gonna change to aegis,but i am reluctant because there are many weapons in 6th that will ignore cover and will vaporize my CCS and IS. (Also as i come straight from the 5th,i don't have a fortification model,so i have to see what my gameclub can spare me (and i thought that a bastion was a better bet)

Thank you guys fro your time and especially Paradigm for your time spent enlightening me

I have read some articles on your guide,quite well written might i add

My advice on Pask is that he is very good if you have the points, but only as an addition, not a trade, as on the whole, I'd rather have the PC than rely on just the main gun and LC (albeit at BS4) as you lose versatility and more shots is generally better than better BS. So if you expand the list to high points, or can take something out without changing sacrificing effectiveness elsewhere in the list, then go for it, nut on the whole, I'd out weapons first and Pask second, as even without him the LC/PC vanquisher is a killing machine.

To be honest, while some armies do have ways of ignoring cover (Although the only really effective ones are Tau, some eldar tricks and Heldrakes), there are plenty of armies that are still pretty popular that do not have this ability, and the 50 points for an ADL can make the difference between a 4+ save and no save at all against bolters/gauss and the like. The bastion on the other hand has very limited use, and is generally less practical than the ADL. If you don't have access to one, then see if you can just got hold of some terrain about the same size (walls or something), or even build your own, as depending on your gaming group, they might not mind using a counts-as.

Thanks for the compliments on the article, I hope you found it useful.

Personally in most of my lists one of my pc/lc vanqs had pask. He makes the tank more reliable and a Biggs threat so your scoring troops arent shot at as much.

Well,as i will be playing in 1850 i think i am gonna add pask(i am tight right now at 1800) but i fear that by adding him i will make a very expensive unit (260 pts) which i fear won't last enough to cash it's points since i will be playing against tau and gk for the time being (no riptide thx god)
This is the final list :
HQ
Company command squad x3 melta,chimera
Company command squad MOO,Regimental standard

Elites
Marbo

Troops
Platoon command squad x3 flamers,H.flamer,chimera
Infantry squad LC
Infantry squad LC
Veterans x3 melta,chimera
Veterans x3 melta,chimera

Fast attack
vendetta
vendetta
Hellhound smoke launchers

Heavy support
Vanquisher plasma cannon,lasscannon, (Pask? )
Manticore
Manticore

Fortifications
ADL

One last question, you said earlier that melta vets and CCS melt should be played defensively, as my friend tomorow will be bringing Tau who will clearly out-shoot me, i suppose i will need those vets as close to the enemy as possbile,correct?
Thanks again for your precious time

List is looking good now, only the PCS chimera that I still don't really like, simply because the cost of if (and downgrading a HF to a flamer) lets you get the best part of another IS with LC.

Against Tau, the best bet is to deploy out of their range, behind the ADL, and focus on dropping the FW with the manticores while the Paskquisher can go for tanks or ID some suits. The melta-vets really become a late-game scoring unit against tau, as they won't get close enough to the gunline to do much damage. For T1-4, use them to counter and DS suits, and after than, make a push for objectives and try and stick to cover. Vendettas should prioritise fliers/anti-fliers, as air superiority will go a long way to level the playing field. Take out the interceptor suits as soon as possible and the rest should do pretty well.

Good luck.

Oups, that chimera in PCS is a mistake, the PCS will embark on a vendetta and i will try and grav chute them near some fire warriors(or maybe keep them for late game?> ) .Well,about the manticores...i was think on using at least 1 shot against tanks,preferably stuck together
Again thank you for your tac-tips ,i will try to keep em in mind whie playing.

On a side-note, in your guide you write that bane wolf doesn't ignore cover saves,why is that? I mean it's a normal template weapons. Also, when firing with my hellhound i don't have to place the template in a straight line from the turret right? I can for example draw a 12 line,then make a 90 degrees turn and place the template , it's obviously unrealistic but rulewise it's ok as long the large end is no closer to the vehicle than the narrow one..

Thank's for the good luck, i am gonna need some

The PCS in the 'detta is good, as it is scoring, so go for an objective if you can. The CCS should be able to deal with orders on the ground.

With the manticores, My suggestion is at the beginning of each shooting phase, take a look at the tanks and prioritise as follows: The vanquisher gets first dibs, so pick a tank and hit it with that. Then, if it's still standing, then hit it with the LC on the PIS, and only after that go for it with the manticores.

Remember that scoring troops win you the game, tanks only stop you from losing, so if you take out his FW (which the manticore is possibly the best thing in the game at doing) the best he can do is win on secondaries if at all. The only exeption t this is if you see a place where you can hit 2 tanks with one shot, and could stll hit one if you scatter, as otherwise, your dedicated AT should be killing them while the manticores target FW, pathfinders and Kroot.

You're right on the Banewolf ignoring cover, I didn't realise all templates had that, as some still have it in the profile. I will edit the article accordingly. And the template from the hellhound can be put anywhere so long as the tip is closer to the barrel than the thick end, including at an angle. That's what mekes them so good compared to the other variants, as you can place the template along an entire squad without showing side armour.

Final tips for killing tau: take out the markerlights fast, their firepower drops off fast after that. Keep your platoon back away from the FW so they have to come forward or do nothing. Beware of DS suits hitting your tanks from behind.

Again, best of luck, and post how you got on.

I finally got the chance to play yesterday and here's what happened.

We played crusade with hammer and anvil deployment, he fielded 2 squads of fire warriors, 1 squad of flamer/melta crisis battlesuit,1 squad of AA broadsides with missiles,2 hammerheads,1 stealth team with burst/melta and shadowsun and allies 2 squads of 30 orks and 1 thraka.

i managed to play first although the nightfight did cripple my first turn killing some orks with hellhound and a crisis with my vanq.
He deployed the stealth team and my flank, and i had to focus a veteran,an IS and a manticore to bring them down and pin shadowsun.
Manticores annihilated the ork squad wounding as many as 30 but i did lost both hellhound (assault) and vanquisher(melta) before managing to kill their point cost.
Vendettas did little cause of the friggin cover saves his hammerheads had,causing only a immobilized resault at one.
MArbo did absolutely nothing as i wasted his demo at the side of a hammerhead doing zero damage and dying afterwards under the fire of his firewarriors
MOO did pretty well,by hitting a whole pathfinder squad with markerlights ,killing 7 and pinning the remaining.

We ended the game at turn 4, with a draw, and the game stil was on the edge with me contesting his obj and him having shadowsun roaming at my rear.

For my first game since a long time,i am very satisfied with the list you helped me make

Until next time, For the Emperor, !

Well done on the draw, not bad for someone just restarting the game, especially against Tau. There are just a few things I thought I'd mention.

1) Night-fighting: This can be a pain for long range guns, but remember your tanks have searchlights, even the manticores,so you could have lit up 4 targets. This is an easy thing to miss, but if you bear it in mind in future games with NF, it can be really helpful, especially with stuff like the Vanq that rely on long-range LOS, and remember, once a target is lit up, all your guys can hit it, so you should prioritise targets your other long-range guns can hit. If you lit up a Hammerhead on T1, you probably could have dropped it with the Vanq and your LCs and a bit of luck.

2) Hellhounds: Losing the flame tanks to assault is often hard to avoid, but try and keep them at least 12" from the enemy, as with the torrent template you don't need them any closer, and you are a little safer from assault. Again, this is something that will come with practice.

3) Marbo: Using Marbo on tanks is often a waste, to be honest, but what he is GREAT for is killing crisis suits, providing they don't have interceptor, as the demo charge will ID them if it gets through the invuln. Use him for this kind of thing next game, you won't be disappointed.

The rest of it seems to come down to luck, as the vendettas should have done more, and the stealth team with shadowsun are just nasty at the best of times.

Well,thank you very much !
yeah i did think about the searchlight when i got back home, i spent almost 45 minutes in the bathroom in fetal position crying..
Well,he had interceptor with high yield missile launcher,but i think i could manage to hit the crysis battlesuits without getting in LOS of the broadsides,probably saving a chimera,my leman and a vet squad.

One thing i did notice was that aegis defense line was a bit waste ,i mean i already had somewhat enough terrain to hide behind,i will test it some more before ordering one

The ADL is good for the fact that where most terrain now gives a 5+ cover, it gives a 4+, which is boosted to a 2+ when you GTG, so it is great to boosting your survivability for backfield objective sitters. It also pairs nicely with GBITF, as you can GTG in the enemy turn, get up in yours and shoot at full BS. Also it will come into play far more against non-tau armies where cover actually matters.

:O
Wow,that combo did not cross my mind! That's pretty awesome man!
I think i will experiment a bit with psyker battle squad and some stormtroopers by removing replacing vanq with a demolisher(no sponsons) .
Also check this out, i finally made my custom model for Marbo,i would really appreciate your thoughts on my work ^^

PBS work great with a primaris psyker, as Weaken Resole followed by Psychic Shriek from telepathy is a nasty combo, if you can set it up. With stormies, either take small suicide squads with melta/plasma/flamer (any of those are good), or if you want larger squads, take at least 2 of 10 and make sure you hit really hard.

I like the marbo model, nicely done. All I'd possibly change is to swap out the legs for kneeling ones, adds to the stealth feeling.

Well,i wanted those legs too,but unfortunately i didn't have any ,so i used the body from the valkyrie gunner which has the body and legs part unified.