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Hi,

I have two questions regarding the Imperial Bastion:

- What is the excact capacity of a Imperial Bastion?
- The rulebook says "AccessPoints & Fire Points: As per model." - what does it mean? Are there as many fire points as in the model (eg windows etc), or are there as many fire points as models inside?

Any help would by great

About the firepoints, on the official model these are the slots on the ground level on 3 out of the 4 faces of the building.
About the capacity I sadly don't have one on hand, but the building rules give you a capacity from the ground area occupied by the building.
I think the official model should fall within the "small building" category, meaning it can carry 10
Edit : Actually you should look up its dimensions, I can't tell if it's barely in the "small" category or in the medium one, which would mean it can contain 20 models

It's a multi- level building. Generally taken as being 2 smalls on top of each other, so 10 at ground level (the one with the door) with a fire point on each of the sides which doesn't have the door, and then another 10 on the second level (with the Heavy Bolters) whereby 2 of the sides have 2 firepoints each, and the other 2 have none.

But it does say 'as model', so if you happen to have spliced two Bastion kits together and happen the have fire points on all 4 sides of the second level, then so be it.

Compare the Terrain Type on the Bastion Datasheet with Building Capacity (on some other page).

And how many models can shoot from inside the Imperial Bastion?

Look up the rules for shooting while embarked in a building. Not sure off-hand the page number.

gausus wrote:
And how many models can shoot from inside the Imperial Bastion?

BRB Page 93 "Firing from Buildings" and "Occupying Buildings"

Page 78 "Transport Capacity" (rules apply to buildings as well, as per page 93)

Page 92 "Building Size Chart"

Page 116 "Imperial Bastion" - Terrain type is listed there.

BunnyCommando wrote:
It's a multi- level building. Generally taken as being 2 smalls on top of each other, so 10 at ground level (the one with the door) with a fire point on each of the sides which doesn't have the door, and then another 10 on the second level (with the Heavy Bolters) whereby 2 of the sides have 2 firepoints each, and the other 2 have none.

But it does say 'as model', so if you happen to have spliced two Bastion kits together and happen the have fire points on all 4 sides of the second level, then so be it.

You can kit bash them if you'd like, but check with your group first or TO if you're taking it to a tourny. Some people get into a nerd rage if it's not built exactly like the official model. I was telling someone who bought the fortress to drill in a few extra holes and got quite a few odd looks and the peanut gallery chiming in to not do it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gausus wrote:
And how many models can shoot from inside the Imperial Bastion?

You can negotiate for how many models can fire out each fire point. but unless otherwise agreed to, it's just 2.

Ok, so if I have eg. 2 fire points on each floor, than only 4 Long Fangs can shoot and benefit from 3+ cover save?

Models embarked in a building cannot be shot at.

Actually a single fire point allows a single model to fire out of it. a bastion has 1 fire point on the left, 1 on the right, 2 on the side with the door which is usually the front or the back depending on which side controls it, (and has presumably turned the door towards his own deployment zone) and 3 on the other side. Like the heavy bolters, you get a 45 degree fireing arc from a fire point and so usually can only shoot from a maximum of 3 fire points at once unles your unit is on the battlements where every model can fire.

The bastions rules define it as a MEDIUM building. so 20 models can be inside the model, but only as many models as physically fit there can go onto the battlements. Also be advised that jump and jetpack units can occupy battlements even when a diffrent unit is actually inside the building but not on the battlements. (even without treating battlements as difficult terrain when jumping onto them.)

NickOnwezen wrote:
Actually a single fire point allows a single model to fire out of it. a bastion has 1 fire point on the left, 1 on the right, 2 on the side with the door which is usually the front or the back depending on which side controls it, (and has presumably turned the door towards his own deployment zone) and 3 on the other side. Like the heavy bolters, you get a 45 degree fireing arc from a fire point and so usually can only shoot from a maximum of 3 fire points at once unles your unit is on the battlements where every model can fire.

The bastions rules define it as a MEDIUM building. so 20 models can be inside the model, but only as many models as physically fit there can go onto the battlements. Also be advised that jump and jetpack units can occupy battlements even when a diffrent unit is actually inside the building but not on the battlements. (even without treating battlements as difficult terrain when jumping onto them.)

You're thinking of vehicles. pg 93 says up to 2 per fire point for buildings.

BunnyCommando wrote:
It's a multi- level building. Generally taken as being 2 smalls on top of each other, so 10 at ground level (the one with the door) with a fire point on each of the sides which doesn't have the door, and then another 10 on the second level (with the Heavy Bolters) whereby 2 of the sides have 2 firepoints each, and the other 2 have none.

This is actually incorrect. The Bastion is a Medium building with Battlements. You don't treat each floor as a separate building. It just has the main chamber, which is a medium building, and the battlements.

Hmm, what do you know, you're right. I doff my cap to thee, good sir. Good to know as well, makes my regular strategy of dumping an objective right outside the door a lot more functional. No need to move down a floor on turn 4...

Intresting sir lynchmob, I actually missed that sailant detail! good to know!

As an additional question; if you upgrade the Impreial Bastion to include a weapon e.g. Icarus Lascannon, where on the model must the weapon be placed? Can it be on the battlements? Can it be inside with the heavy bolters?
Would this depend on how I model my miniature? Would people shout at me for modelling it in a way that might give me an advantage?

As the Lascannon/Quad is a gun emplacement it will follow all the rules related to this type of terrain. As only emplaced guns have permission to start inside a fortification, gun emplacements are unable to start inside of a building for they lack the permissions needed to 'embark.' One can not simply argue it is now an emplaced gun as the rules tell you that it is a gun emplacement and they use completely different sets of rules. Much as I hate the fact they are using a near identical terminology for two completely different things, they still are two completely different things.

As to where on the table it can be placed, that gets a little but more gray because there are no clear rules in regards.

The following is 'How I would Play it' until I find more accurate rules: anywhere within 4 inches of the Bastion is fine, this includes the battlements. I play it this way as the rules for deploying terrain inform us that there needs to be a four inch gap between each individual 'groups' of terrain. As the gun emplacement is part of the Bastion fortification slot, it should be deployed in such a manor that clearly indicates it is part of the fortification and that four inch gap is a good indicator on where one group of terrain ends and another begins.

Isn't it supposed to be ontop of the bastions battlements since its "as per the model"?

The problem with such is simple: It is up to the person putting together the model to decide how it looks.

Any rule that states 'as per model' means you look at the physical model and that tells you what you are dealing with. Often this rule is simply for firing point and access points, but I will take a look at the rules when I get home to see if gun emplacements also are 'as per model.' It still won't change the fact the person building, or deploying, the model would be able to change the 'as per model' simply by designing or deploying the model in such a way that gives them an advantage. If they moved the gun emplacement from the top of the building and placed it inf ront of the door, then 'as per the model' the gun emplacement is in front of the door.

NickOnwezen wrote:
Isn't it supposed to be ontop of the bastions battlements since its "as per the model"?

The only 'as per model' reference in the Bastion rules is referring to access and fire points. It has nothing to do with gun emplacements.

There are no rules governing where a gun emplacement goes. For the Bastion, it's commonly assumed it should go on the roof as that is how it is generally pictured.

 insaniak wrote:

NickOnwezen wrote:
Isn't it supposed to be ontop of the bastions battlements since its "as per the model"?

The only 'as per model' reference in the Bastion rules is referring to access and fire points. It has nothing to do with gun emplacements.

There are no rules governing where a gun emplacement goes. For the Bastion, it's commonly assumed it should go on the roof as that is how it is generally pictured.

So when I buy my Bastion with Quad I can put it anywhere per the emplacement rules? Or even a ADL with a quad?

Nobody knows.

Again, the general assumption is that it should be placed as pictured in the book... So for the Bastion, on the roof. For the ADL, somewhere close, possibly touching a wall segment... but the rules are somewhat vague on the matter, and there is no actual instruction given on where the emplacement should go, leading some players to argue that it can be placed anywhere on the table.

One day GW might get around to finishing writing the fortification rules, and then hopefully we'll find out for sure.

Doesn't the datasheet for three bastion show the comm relay next to it?

 insaniak wrote:
Nobody knows.

Again, the general assumption is that it should be placed as pictured in the book... So for the Bastion, on the roof. For the ADL, somewhere close, possibly touching a wall segment... but the rules are somewhat vague on the matter, and there is no actual instruction given on where the emplacement should go, leading some players to argue that it can be placed anywhere on the table.

One day GW might get around to finishing writing the fortification rules, and then hopefully we'll find out for sure.

Thanks, is there a YMTC post on this so I can read some other ideas about where is the limit of the gun to be placed? I mean you cant out it out of deployment obviously?

The kit bashing shenanigans make me want to get 3 and stack them up vertically. fear my 27" tower. No ADL can save you!

osirisx69 wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Nobody knows.

Again, the general assumption is that it should be placed as pictured in the book... So for the Bastion, on the roof. For the ADL, somewhere close, possibly touching a wall segment... but the rules are somewhat vague on the matter, and there is no actual instruction given on where the emplacement should go, leading some players to argue that it can be placed anywhere on the table.

One day GW might get around to finishing writing the fortification rules, and then hopefully we'll find out for sure.

Thanks, is there a YMTC post on this so I can read some other ideas about where is the limit of the gun to be placed? I mean you cant out it out of deployment obviously?

Discuss it with your opponent ahead of time is the best anyone can tell you. Some will be fine with you placing it within your deployment zone, others will not (at which point you'd be best to place it either on top of the bastion or "near"). Having no clear rule on the matter does cause headaches.

There have been a couple of threads on it, but all they really boil down to is 'the rules don't say'...


The FAQ mentions that the sections of the ADL have to be touching one another, but there is some disagreement as to whether that includes the gun, which really just boils down to personal opinion.

There isn't even that much guidance in the rules for the Bastion.

Yes, you would be limited to placing it in your board half, as that is the standard for fortifications. But that's all that the rules have to say on the matter.

 insaniak wrote:
There have been a couple of threads on it, but all they really boil down to is 'the rules don't say'...


The FAQ mentions that the sections of the ADL have to be touching one another, but there is some disagreement as to whether that includes the gun, which really just boils down to personal opinion.

There isn't even that much guidance in the rules for the Bastion.

Yes, you would be limited to placing it in your board half, as that is the standard for fortifications. But that's all that the rules have to say on the matter.

You know its funny. There are things that are just assumed a certain way. I just see it in pictures as always on top, or in the ADL but after reading the rules I can't find anywhere that it states it has to be deployed that way.. *shrug* never assume I guess

Deviantduck: Oh I have seen far worse...

Someone on this site had gone up against a player with a custom built Bastion. This one was designed with no access point at all, so no doors, preventing any unit from embarking into the building itself. The opposing player, which I would say was one of 'those ******* guys,' would then deploy troops into the battlement and simply point to the rule stating they could only be assaulted from inside of the building. It was clearly designed to abuse the rules in order to provide immunity from assaults for a unit designed to be weak against them, with a 3+ cover save against shooting on top of it all.

At least we where able to find a few rules that would make it illegal to deploy troops on top of such a building, as it would technically be 'impassable,' which should help prevent such exploitation in the future.