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Hey guys,

I have an updated version of an earlier list I made. It's working off rumors regarding the new SM codex. I'm not playing tourneys, and I'm not facing hellturkeys or cron air, just generally balanced casual armies. Still would like to be competitive though! Feedback would be much appreciated!

Raven Guard

Shrike

7 Vanguard Vets
- Serg. with power axe + SS + MB
- 1 with power fist + SS
- 1 with thunder hammer + SS
- 2 with chainsword + SS + MB
- 2 with power lances + MB

5 scouts
- 4 with sniper rifles
- 1 with ML

5 scouts
- 4 with sniper rifles
- 1 with ML

5 tactical marines
- 1 with heavy flamer or combi flamer
- Dedicated Transport - razorback with TL-lascannons

5 tactical marines
- 1 with plasmagun
- Dedicated Transport - razorback with TL-lascannons

3 bikes
- Multimelta attack bike

Blood Angels

Librarian with jump pack and divination

Honour guard with blood champion and jump packs

10 man assault squad with jump packs
- Serg. with power lance + combat shield + MB
- 2 flamers

Stormraven with assault cannons and multimelta

Total ~1750

The basic idea is to scout the razorbacks up the field, infiltrate with Shrike and the VV and plant the scouts on objectives. On first turn, keep the razorbacks rolling and get the tac squads and lascannons in their face. Then fly the jump assault squad, attached libby and honour guard up the field (blood priest gives them all FNP) and charge with shrike. The idea is basically target saturation. Pretty much every unit is worth shooting at, and hopefully a balance of Flamers, lascannons and meltabombs will help with hordes/mech. If they target the VV, hopefully the 5 storm shields will slow them down enough that the rest of the army can get a turn 2 charge.

Another option is that I could get an aegis defense line and set it up across the centre of the board to let my scouts and shrike sit in it, and give cover to the tanks and jump troops as they advance.

Thanks guys, please feedback!

I don't know much about Raven wing so bear with me. Most of my sugestions go to the bloodangels side.

Not sure about runing the Vanguard as Raven wing, they would be way more effective as blood angels.

Take them as blood angels so they scater 1d6 less and maybe get furios charge. Then keep them in Reserve and use heroic intervention. i don't see problems with the gear except that they are expensive. Lumping Shrike with them seems rather pointless.

If you drop the Storm Raven you should be able to take another 10 man assualt sqaud or possibly if you have the points you could run a smaller VG Vet with him but what makes them good is the Heroic intervention.

I peronally wouldnt take a libraian with the blood angel's. I would take a Chaplain instead without an hounour gaurd. Take a sanguinary priest in place of that w/jumppack. And lump them in with the assualt squad. (lets you reroll hits and auto furious charge +FNP) You should be either be deep striking these guys or running them up the field as quick as possible.

--Inferno pistols are amazing see about taking one of these in a squad---

I don't really know about the Flamers on the assualt squad. i never had any issues killing horde armys in close combat. but i generally roll lucky.

Im guesing your taking the Storm Raven for possible AA. Which the Storm raven is nice but you should be mobile enough to not really worry about it.

Pretty sure the Agis has to go in your deployment zone so ima say that's a no go.

I don't have my codex Space marines or codex bloodangels currently so i can't tell about the points cost so you will have to check on that.

Here is another option. For the blood angels side.

Chaplain- Cause the librians in BA just don't work well for me(unless you have terminator armour)
Death Company- way more devistating in CC (FNP, FC, Fearless)(with the Chaplain the reroll to hit and wound on the charge)
Furiso Dreadnaught in a Drop Pod( Comes in turn one and Wrecks defensive lines)(also put the missles in the Drop Pod)(Make sure you take the Blood Talons)

Thanks for the reply man!

The list I wrote up is working off the new codex which is due to be released on Saturday, based on the rumours/leaks. The new Vanguard are quite different to the ones found in the BA codex - the heroic intervention doesn't allow them to assault from deep strike, but it removes the penalty for a multi-charge. Most importantly it cuts about 80 points off the squad. It also swaps the possibility of receiving Red Thirst for a rule which allows them to use their jump pack in both the movement and assault phase, and to reroll their hammer of wrath attacks - a pretty decent upgrade if you ask me.

If they're attached to Shrike, then they should be able to start the game infiltrated, meaning a turn 1 or 2 charge. Overall I think that them being much cheaper, more powerful and infiltrating > a chance to charge from deep strike.

I did think about dropping the Storm Raven for another assault squad, but I thought that a little more variety might be more beneficial, and again it's another target which will hopefully demand a lot of attention.

The librarian vs. the reclusiarch, it might be a good idea, but either way the real use of either of them is to grant the assault squad re-rolls. The chaplain grants them automatically on the charge, but the librarian can give them every turn, can potentially roll up a power even more powerful, and costs 30 points less.

The honour guard includes a sanguinary priest, who confers FNP and FC to both his own squad and the assault marines. Overall it ends up being 110 points for the other 4 honour guard which includes the Blood Champion upgrade. I would drop it if I needed the points, but I think that 110 point just gives my opponent yet another target to worry about (if nothing else, a squad of honour guard look like they're worth shooting).

I was considering taking meltas on the assault squad instead of flamers, but I thought that I might already have mech covered . I also wanted assault weapons as really the squad is designed to get up in yo face, rather than being a mobile firebase.

Death company would be cool, but damn they're expensive. I think the only things they could replace are the Stormraven, the 110 points from downgrading the honour guard, or the assault squad. I don't really think any of those would be worth swapping out.

I do love Furiosos, personally I prefer the Fragioso, but again if it came down to that or the Stormraven/assault squad, I think the Furioso loses out.

One thing to consider with Shrike is that if you infiltrate, you can't assault turn 1. Unless they explicitly give him an exception to this rule. It could be useful to set up a sweet turn two multi-assault. But the jump pack guys don't benefit from stealth (as we currently understand it) so they might be a bit exposed compared to the rest of your troops.

With chapter tactics, you can take a Raven Guard army without Shrike. If you want to take him, go for it, I just think it's possible to go without.

I also like the fluffy idea of bolter scouts in a land speeder storm doing drive bys after they outflank. CC scouts could be good but they too can't assault the turn they arrive from reserve.

I can't comment on the blood angels stuff. Looks like a fun list regardless.

I see your point for the VV's

And the fortification must be set up in your deployment zone so that would go against what your trying to do with the army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
send me a message after you get to play test that, i wanna know how it works out.

 BlueRift wrote:
One thing to consider with Shrike is that if you infiltrate, you can't assault turn 1. Unless they explicitly give him an exception to this rule. It could be useful to set up a sweet turn two multi-assault. But the jump pack guys don't benefit from stealth (as we currently understand it) so they might be a bit exposed compared to the rest of your troops.

With chapter tactics, you can take a Raven Guard army without Shrike. If you want to take him, go for it, I just think it's possible to go without.

I also like the fluffy idea of bolter scouts in a land speeder storm doing drive bys after they outflank. CC scouts could be good but they too can't assault the turn they arrive from reserve.

I can't comment on the blood angels stuff. Looks like a fun list regardless.

Just to clarify, you can't assault on the first player turn, but if you're going second then you can assault on your first turn. Doesn't change things too much, but if you can infiltrate into a spot completely out of LOS, and go second, it could make for a good first turn assault (assuming your infiltrated spot won't be easy to shoot into.)

I'm working on a homebrew chapter and am considering Raven Guard, but Shrike doesn't quite do it for me due to those dumb 1st player turn assault restrictions. The Raven Guard rules does open up some interesting Rhino rush possibilites though.

For the rest of the list, I don't see the Scouts as being all that effective just because of their BS, I like them better as fast scorers in Storms in the 6th dex.
I would also trim down the Vanguard, vanilla they are already pretty good, and really what are their targets? They'll be best for multicharging soft-ish units, units that plain Vanguard should be able to handle just fine. I would drop a couple SS, drop a couple MB. Also I'd drop a couple of the weapons (maybe the axe and one or both of the lances). Sure its fun to wipe a unit when you charge, but finishing off a unit during your opponents turn is the way to go. I'd resist the urge to give more than one item per vanguard, except maybe the sarge if you plan on challenging. In this edition of shooting dominance you don't have to dish out too many points to win in CC.
I just figure that would lighten the point cost of the unit, without sacrificing its overall job effectiveness.

IMO one of two of the new AA tanks might be a better pick than the Stormraven, but I understand picking those up can be pricey.



And fortifications are deployed by player table half, not player deployment zone. Only other restriction is they can't be too close to another fortification.

Actually, I think if you infiltrate then you can't charge at all on the first turn, even in the back half. I don't have my BRB on me, but I'm pretty sure it's in the infiltrate section.

I definitely think the rhino rush is the most effective application of raven guard chapter tactics, and I'm trying to incorporate an alternate version of it, but ultimately I love the assault marines and more fun units. Also, cost is definitely a factor! But for others, I would definitely be more inclined to recommend the rhino rush, if it suits your style/budget.

The scouts I think you have a great point, and I never find them particular impressive. I only have them in the list because I want a cheap scoring unit designed specifically for holding home objectives. Because they're cheaper than a tac squad and their guns are more effective for their role, I've continued to use them. Perhaps one will be enough though, and I can drop the second one?

I see the VV squad as having two roles: a troubleshooter and a firemagnet. I think that they need to be equipped to deal with the really difficult specialist assault units, and for that I feel they'll be facing a lot of power weapons and good saves. I think that for the cost of a few meltabombs, the ability to reliably melt a tank could be handy, but that could be a case of needing to focus them more. As a firemagnet, I'm expecting that whilst I'm aiming for target saturation, as Shrike and the VV carry a high price tag, these guys will draw the most attention. For that reason, I want to give them some protection from the high str, low ap weapons they're likely to be shot with. SSs essentially triple the number of low AP shots required to kill them, increasing the chances of them getting into combat, and wasting enemy shooting.

In hindsight the raven doesn't work heaps well with the list, except that I do need AA, and it can bring some decent fire support to the ground troops. I could swap it for sternguard ?

The aegis thing could actually be an interesting option - with scout, I'm sitting two tac squads and two razorbacks behind an aegis line before the first turn, and my assault units are advancing behind cover. Again, Shrike and the scouts could potentially infiltrate behind it too. Hmmmm...

Thanks again for the thoughts man, given me plenty to chew over! Keep it coming

If you decided to take stern gaurd put them in a drop pod and wreak some turn 1 devistation. I believe they are combat sqaudable so you should be able to drop them in and evefectivly devistate 3 squads turn 1(two 5 man stergaurds and dop pod with the death wind. Or just obliterate a single squad/kill the warlord first turn with massive melta/plasma gun fire from combis.

superwill wrote:


I see the VV squad as having two roles: a troubleshooter and a firemagnet. I think that they need to be equipped to deal with the really difficult specialist assault units, and for that I feel they'll be facing a lot of power weapons and good saves. I think that for the cost of a few meltabombs, the ability to reliably melt a tank could be handy, but that could be a case of needing to focus them more. As a firemagnet, I'm expecting that whilst I'm aiming for target saturation, as Shrike and the VV carry a high price tag, these guys will draw the most attention. For that reason, I want to give them some protection from the high str, low ap weapons they're likely to be shot with. SSs essentially triple the number of low AP shots required to kill them, increasing the chances of them getting into combat, and wasting enemy shooting.

I see your point, but I think it might be off a bit. What kind of firepower is that unit going to be attracting? Does SS triple the amount of plasma that would have to be shot at them? Yes. How much AP2/3 is going to be shot at them? None (unless its on accident). So what kind of firepower will they attract? Small arms, and lots of it. They only have a 3+ armor save, if it was a 2+ I could see the point of all those SS, but as is the SS don't make them any better against the most abundant kind of shooting you'll see in the game.

It seems like you want them to have the role of TH/SS termies, but faster. I don't think VV work well like that. The advantages they are given in the rules is that they are best taking out multiple units at once, that are a bit softer in CC.
They will do their job as a firemagnet, I can promise that, because it will be scary in CC, and your opponent won't shoot at the rest of the army. The problem comes when they have attracted all that firepower, and they have been boltered down, there is nothing else in the list that is very substantial/scary. The sacrifice (which is what a firemagnet is) has to accomplish something. You don't want your fire magnet unit, and your killy unit, to be the same unit. You're just telling your opponent 'see this unit that looks scary, it is scary, and once its gone I'm done'. Ideally, you want your opponent to be confused about what to target rather than hanging a neon sign around your most valuable guys.

I guess what I'm getting at is you've got to spread the threat around a bit.

I wouldn't necessarily say I want them to be a TH/SS utit with speed, but I would like them to be capable of dancing with those specialist assault units. If they're not, no one else in the list seems to be, and I think I have hordes covered in the rest of the list.

Part of their function as a squad is to serve as a delivery system for Shrike. Yeah, any sensible enemy will turn the plasma guns away and focus on killing the VV with dakka. But if they do, it will take around 63 BS4 bolter shots to take out the VV and get to shrike. Ultimately, most armies won't have that much firepower, and those that do will have very little left for the rest of it. On the other hand, take away the SSs and a single vindicator plate or devastator squad can pretty much wipe the whole unit.

I think you're absolutely right about spreading the threat around, that's really important for this list and something I need to work on. I think the BA assault squad is a massive threat. If they get close, you're looking at 2 flamers, and about 40 attacks on the charge, with divination rerolls and furious charge. The honour guard bring 25 attacks on the charge, with furious charge, and provide FNP to the assault squad, libby and themselves. The scouting razorbacks and scoring tac squads should hopefully be worth targeting. I'm thinking I might swap the razorback TLLC for TLAC to increase their close-range deadliness. The bikes probably aren't that scary, and so perhaps I need to increase their threat level. I'm considering swapping the stormraven for some sternguard in drop pod, which would add another turn 1 threat, but remove the flexibility and AA of the bird.

Perhaps to apply some of your suggestions, I could pull a little back from the VV - a couple of meltabombs and maybe a spear or two, scrap one of the scout squads and inject the points into increasing the threat of the bike squad. Or maybe if I can squeeze out a few more points I can even keep the bikes as they are and bring in the sternguard?

Thanks so much for your input brother, it is really helpful!!!

For anit Air remember your ML can shoot Flakk Rounds .
You could also put a QaudGun in your ADL