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I have a escalation league coming up, and the first part of it is 500 points. I don't have enough space for both a chieftain with a BRB and a Wizard Warlock, and both are quite important, so I'm not really sure which to pick...I have slightly different armies for both as well seeing as the point cost are a little different. I am fairly new to Skaven and Fantasy in general as well, so I'm not to sure how these things work out.

500 Point (W/ Warlock)

Hero:
Warlock Engineer- 85
Wizard Level 1
Warp-Energy Condenser

Core:
41 Clan Rats- 246
Musician
Standard Bearer
WarpFire Thrower

30 Skavenslaves- 77
Slings
Musician

Rare:
Warp Lightning Cannon- 90


500 Point (W/ Chieftain)
Hero:
Chieftain- 72
BSB
Halberd
Chieftain- 47
Halberd

Core:
30 Stormvermin- 235
Musician
Standard Bearer
Pawleader

20 Skavenslaves- 52
Slings
Musician

Rare:
Warp Lightning Cannon- 90

You know, I think I prefer the warlock one.
At this small scale, skaven are lucky since each part of the army can be bought for small points.
So having a magic phase as well as a cannon and a warpfire should help you.

Thanks. I was also leaning towards the Warlock list, and not just because I'm a fan of Clan Skyre. They have more phases in which they can do something. Less dependent on the Warp Lightning Cannon.

Fairly sure the second list is illegal - the chieftain can't be the BSB since there's no other lord or hero to take over as general.

There is. The second chieftain with the Halberd.

Here are my two Warptokens on the first list:

- I really don't think you need a Wizard at 500pts, and even if you do take one, I'd prefer one with the Doom Rocket over the Condenser.

- The Warpfire Thrower is a huge gamble at this point level. I'd consider swapping it out for a Ratling Gun and more bodies.

- Normally, I'd say drop the Slings on those Slaves. But at 500pts, they become a strangely versatile unit.

And on the second list:

- I'd drop that second Chieftain and the halberd on the first one. Give the BSB an Enchanted Shield for a 3+/6+. Then take a Warlock Engineer with a Doom Rocket for your general, then drop a few Stormvermin and stick the Standard of Discipline on them.
Same Leadership, but with a Doom Rocket and a more durable BSB.

- and, just for the record, the champion of a Stormvermin unit is a Fangleader.

Yea, I see that after I tested out the wizard in a 1000 point game. The Warlock really wasn't as effective as I thought he would be. But the DoomRocket surpassed my wildest dreams! Took out dozens of elves in one shot. Glorious.

I think I might just go with the second list. Play around with it a little bit. Do you think StormVermin need a weapon's team? If so, what should I get rid of to get it?

Warpsolution wrote:
- I'd drop that second Chieftain and the halberd on the first one. Give the BSB an Enchanted Shield for a 3+/6+.

? Magic shields don't grant parry saves.

 streamdragon wrote:
Magic shields don't grant parry saves.

Gah! True. I guess that shows how often I give my characters a magic shield that they use in combat.
And how stupid it is that magic shields don't grant Parry saves.

So I suppose it's a bit of a toss-up between 50pts for a 3+ save or 47pts for a 4+/6+.

And I don't think any unit needs a Weapon Team. The Teams don't really add anything to the parent unit; they're a completely separate entity, with it's own strengths and weaknesses. At such small point values, a Weapon Team's risk-reward, which is already very high, becomes even more so. Personal taste, I suppose.
I'd usually go with a Ratling Gun for a cheap and (mostly) reliable ranged unit, or the Warpfire Thrower, for flaming.

I'm in the same boat. Long time 40k player who decided to give fantasy a go round for an escalation league. Ours started at 750 so a little more room to mess around. I purchased both a doomwheel and warp lightning cannon and they both have their uses. Obviously at 500 you can't table a doomwheel but I would pick one up for next point level. I tend to use the doomwheel against armies with larger multi wound models and the wlc against hordes. As of yet I have had no problems in the league other then ogres. I'm 3 and 2 with both losses coming to ogres running a huge block of ogres a 5man twohander squad and a great cannon. I can't whittle them down fast enough and they have destroyed 40 blocks of slaves and clanrats in 1 round of combat while the great cannon owns whatever weapons team or large weapon I put on the board fast because of move and shoot. Let me know if you have any ideas. I've been running something like warlord, level 2 warlock, 2x 40 blocks of slaves, 20something clanrats with rattling gun, and a doomwheel. Move the slaves straight at him while the wheel and clanrats attempt to flank. Zero problems with daemons, vampire counts, and lizards. Used the wlc though for the counts and wow was it good.

The Warp Lightning Cannon is the most versatile war machine in the whole of Warhammer, save maybe (maybe) the Ironblaster and the Skullcannon. The only time competitive lists don't run two of them is when they're busy running two Abominations.

Against a Bull/Gutstar, I'd wager that two cannons and some Rat-Darts would work pretty well. Send your slaves at the Ironblaster to keep Weapon Teams and such safe (Warpfire Throwers work sickeningly well against Ogres), though beware Sabretusks.

Alright. So I've basically narrowed my list down to the Chieftain with BSB and enchanted shield with a Warlock armed with Doomrocket and Warp Lightning Cannon and 20 Slaves with Slings. I just cant decide between 27 Stormvermin with a Banner of Disipline or 40 Clanrats and a Ratling Gun. I'll be vsing manly Ogres, Dark Elves, and Daemons (Maybe) probably a few others though I don't know about them. So what should I go for? Also, should I just drop the slaves? 20 sounds so...useless, but I don't know...it seems like they could be useful.

20 Skavenslaves are a great re-director and chaff unit. They're cheap and expendable, but with 3 ranks, they can take out any other chaff models. And with 20 wounds, your opponent will have to waste a distressingly large amount of effort to get rid of them, compared to the threat they actually cause.

Adding slings makes them a little less efficient at this, but a little more versatile. At this point level, I think it could work.

As for Stormvermin versus Clanrats, I'm leaning towards the prior. WS4 S4 and I5 will go a long way in such a small game. Add in the Banner, and I think it's at least a mite better than the Ratling Gun option.

Thank you very much Warpsolution! You were such a big help here. I have a finalized list, though I'm always open to tweaks and concerns! (Or Praise )

Skaven Army List (500 Points)

Heroes:
Chieftain- 75
BSB
Enchanted Shield

Warlock Engineer- 45
Doomrocket

Core:
22x Skavenslaves- 57
Musician

24x Stormvermin- 232
Fangleader
Muscian
Standard Bearer
Standard of Discipline
Shields

Rare:
WLC- 90

Looking good! The only thing I'd change is dropping the shields on the Stormvermin. They're more durable to shooting this way, but you could spend those points on three more bodies (and an extra Slave!), which makes them more durable to shooting and combat.

Dang, after taking away the slings from the slaves on accident, I realized I could bring up to 40 bodies of those guys...the amount of wounds in that one cheap little block makes me want to cry with joy...Slings might not be worth it after all.

Not sure if I follow you. If you drop slings, you're saving 11pts, so you could get 5 more models...

Sorry, was a little confused on points. But it matters not. League started today and I kicked some Ogre but. Murdered Everything on the field by turn 3.

Yikes. I feel bad for the Ogres! But then again, I suppose 500pt games usually go that way.
I'm guessing the Doomrocket did its work? Or did the Cannon see you through all on its own?

I know first hand if a cannon works in your favor you almost can't lose. The last game I dominated with the cannon I'm pretty sure it killed about 500 of the 750 total points. I can't wait for higher point games.

The DoomRocket did it's job well enough! Exploded spectacularly in the middle of his Ogre's and took one out. The Warp Lightning Cannon blew up his MournFang Calvary, took out 3 ogres, then decided to blow up. (I blame Clan Skyre for being jealous of my better Cannon...) But my StormVermin (With a little bit of luck) were able to take out the few remaining Ogres. After he wreaked the Slaves of course.