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I have a question to all SW players here. Is our Codex any good in the 6Th edition? My SW can win with Orks or Dark Eldar, but they are destroyed by any army with a new codex. We dont have enough mass low AP units, and we can't make it to the assault.

Playing with a semi gun line army (lots of preds, rifleman dreds, razorbacks and long fangs in a bastion) can be a wining tactic sometime but it is not fun.

TH/SS Wolf Guard can be shoot down in one turn, TWC hardly ever makes it to the enemy. Drop Pod assasination is now a suicide twctics at best.

Is it possible to play SW against new codexes and wine from time to time or shouldmI wait for the new codex?

All best

The best tricks in this edition are massed drop pods, LFs with LC/ML, and TWC can be pretty good if played right. The pods will get the wolves in rapid-fire range fast, putting pressure on the enemy, and if the enemy makes no move to assault, then you charge. TWC can be good using the pods as cover to manoeuvre for a charge, as once they are stuck in they still wreck face.

The only real issue is lack of any AA short of fortifications, so allies or an ADL are needed here, but on the whole, yes, the wolves are still alive and kicking.

6th Ed Wolves seems to be about mass drop pod tactics, especially pods full of Combi toting Wolf Guard. Drop them in close, do as much damage as you can with your Alpha strike and then hope the rest comes in soon enough to avoid getting wiped out.

For nastiness use Logan to make your Wolf Guard troops and stick him in to a unit of Long Fangs with Plasma Cannons or Multi-Meltas who he can make relentless on that first turn drop. This also frees up your elite slots for some drop pod Dreadnaughts.

Wolves are probably lower-mid-tier at the moment, although that's mostly due to their age compared to other Codices. They still can do pretty well due to having good Troops and HQs, although you might have some struggles versus the nasty specialized lists out there.

I've had enormous success with IG/SW. I am 11-0 with them in 6th and took a local RTT with them last week.

The wolves really lack tactical flexibility as a whole, as their only competitive build has several hard counters (interceptor Ion Riptides). I find that guard plugs many SW gaps, allowing them to tackle opponents usually out of their weight class, whilst still benefiting from the SW unparalleled psychic defense and, if necessary, JOTWW against Tervigons and Riptides..

What's your list like? How many points?

The 6Th edition is about shooting. The problem is, how to make drop pod units survive to make an assault. Against Tau or Eldar it is a hard nut to crack. And even if we make it to the assault - there is still Overwatch. From my last year of gaming - almost nobody does assault anymore. If I get close to my enemy, he retreats and shoots me again.
Last game 5WG with TH/SS were shoot down in one turn by 3 TAu Crisis Suits with melta and plasma. It's hard to compare that to 10 CombiPlasma Wolf Guard.

I have use the full drop pod / full comdi weapon list against a ne full wraith list and work very well with Logan deliver the lf with mm and 2 rp.the only thing starting the table was 2 lone wolves

Would You be so kind as to share Your list here?

I have looked at Loganwing. It looks awesome, but it has one serious flaw. Loganwing has a small model count.
I was thinking about puting smaller (5-6) WG models with combi weapon in each Drop Pod, and sending them to shoot down all critical targets in the first turn. But i have no idea will it work.

Small model count is suicide. Coming from a BA player, no matter how shiny they are, the Tau and Eldar will wound spam them to death.

Yesterday I've played 1500 pts vs Dark Eldar.
My list had
3 drop pods (10GH each, 2PG, 2MG, 2Flamer)
2 fangs (one ML, one HB), both with Rune Priest
2 TWC
3 swiftclaws with Rune Priest on a bike
Razorback TL
Razorback HB

The Dark Eldar player took:
3 Ravager with Lances
4 or 5 Venoms with some splinter rifle troops
2 raiders with Kabalite and Warriors
Archon with kabalites
Wyches
3 bikers

He got to go first, so I've deployed all my units in the cover so he was unable to shoot any of them.

My first turn, my Fangs moved to position and made quite a mess shooting snapshots (thanks to Prescience) .
Melta and Plasma Hunters drop poded near the vehicles and shoot 2 of them. Priest got rid of a Ravager with Lightning. And TWC wrecked 3 bikers in one attack.

Basicly tha game was done by turn 3 with the third GH squad taking the Relic and moving away with it.

It looks like the Drop Pod assault is great as long as You are able to get rid of most dangerous targets in turn one.
I am thinking about droping 5HB fangs with Priest and a AC Term Wolf Guard behind enemy lines and wipe them out with prescience and 15HB shoots.

Drop pod assault lists literally don't have enough firepower to neutralize Eldar/Tau threats in one turn. They honestly can't even do it my BA. The problem is that when I assault your SW, they kick my BA butt all over town.

I'm not sure you are right. Hammer and Anvil tactics should work well. Flamer GH kill regular tau with no problem.
And 1-2 squads of Combi Wolf Guard can take down harder units. In Your deployment zone you should have some heavy firepower.
In that scenario Tau player has to choose - shoot the big guns, and be assaulted in the next turn. Or shoot the Drop Pod units and leave the big guns free to shoot.

Martel732 wrote:
Small model count is suicide. Coming from a BA player, no matter how shiny they are, the Tau and Eldar will wound spam them to death.

Agreed, I've noticed my HQs are far more surviviable with 10 GH than they are with a dedicated Terminator bodyguard. Maybe that's just because people don't get psyched out about them as much though.

I am not fooled! I shoot the $%^%&^ out of grey hunters! They terrify me. Unfortunately, there's usually too many for my BA to shoot. And so I lose. Maybe the BA should just go chaos and get some helldrakes.

Martel732 wrote:
Drop pod assault lists literally don't have enough firepower to neutralize Eldar/Tau threats in one turn. They honestly can't even do it my BA. The problem is that when I assault your SW, they kick my BA butt all over town.

Space Wolves Drop Lists can produce enough fire power to cripple Tau or Eldar in one turn. You just have to build a little differently than SW players are used to.

Loganwing with Power Armor can put 50+ combi weapons on the field. It's brutal. That plus Jaws can be insane.

Or terrible...depends on the scatter/intercept gods.

Okay I've never seen a SW list with more than 20 special weapons on the alpha strike turn. Didn't know they could do 50.

Sounds like you are sacrificing your heavy support to do this.

Martel732 wrote:
Okay I've never seen a SW list with more than 20 special weapons on the alpha strike turn. Didn't know they could do 50.

Sounds like you are sacrificing your heavy support to do this.

Yeah that's hardly a practical list... Space Wolves shouldn't have more than 12 special weapons on the drop, and that's assuming maxed troop slots and no attached ICs. Taking Wolf Guard combi-weapon teams on top of that seems excessive.

If you go with Logan, the WG combi Weapons guys are your troops.

Martel732 wrote:
Okay I've never seen a SW list with more than 20 special weapons on the alpha strike turn. Didn't know they could do 50.

Sounds like you are sacrificing your heavy support to do this.

At 1850 you get something like:

Logan
Rune Priest
Rune Priest

6x7 Wolf Guard with combi weapon of choice in a drod pod. One of these squads has a TDA guy to kick over to the last pod

Long Fangs with MMs

42 Combi Weapons. 5 relentless multi meltas. 2 Rune Priests. Overpriced Logan.

Space Wolves don't have a HS option that's worth a damn anyway. Not in a 6ed environment. Overpriced Preds or Long Fangs who will die in a turn anyway.

This list is absolutely an all or nothing build, but it's one of the only viable ways to run Wolves right now. It's actually really solid against Tau. Against Pulse Bomb lists the flamer squads come down first and eliminate all the bubble wrap. Against elite builds the plasma and meltas come down first. Intercept is going to kill a few guys, but whatever. There's enough room to put the Rune Priests in any of the Wolf Guard pods, so they can come down with the applicable weapons system (and Jaws can go through a Kroot line and then target a Riptide and a Broadside for example), so it doesn't matter what the squad target is (flamer for Kroot, plas for Crisis, etc)

I haven't played it vs Eldar, but I don't see why you couldn't just land everywhere and have the survivors of turn 1 start stuffing krak grenades down Serpent tailpipes.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Okay I've never seen a SW list with more than 20 special weapons on the alpha strike turn. Didn't know they could do 50.

Sounds like you are sacrificing your heavy support to do this.

Yeah that's hardly a practical list... Space Wolves shouldn't have more than 12 special weapons on the drop, and that's assuming maxed troop slots and no attached ICs. Taking Wolf Guard combi-weapon teams on top of that seems excessive.

I don't know what a practical list is. I do know the Logan Bomb style lists actually stand a chance to win against high end 6ed lists; where as most SW lists are dead in the water. 6ED is currently a game of overwhelming firepower; this is how Space Wolves play that game.

Pretty much this. Use the overwhelming Alpha strike to neutralize the killy units on turn one and play mop up the rest of the game. Very few troops can survive in close proximity to to SW for long.

This works super good against flyer heavy lists as you can destroy a large portion of their army while the rest is off the table. On some lists you might even get to table the enemy before their fliers can enter play, negating the disadvantage SW has against fliers.

Jefffar wrote:
If you go with Logan, the WG combi Weapons guys are your troops.

I realize that, but would it not be more effective to take Grey Hunters instead? The Wolf Guard get 1 turn to hopefully kill their target and then after that they're far less versatile (and you're guaranteed a far lower model count too). It's basically a one-dimensional army - try to kill things on the drop and hope your enemy can't turn around and destroy you. That's how I see it anyway. That said, a combo of Wolf Guard plus Grey Hunters in Pods would be pretty nice.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Jefffar wrote:
If you go with Logan, the WG combi Weapons guys are your troops.

I realize that, but would it not be more effective to take Grey Hunters instead? The Wolf Guard get 1 turn to hopefully kill their target and then after that they're far less versatile (and you're guaranteed a far lower model count too). It's basically a one-dimensional army - try to kill things on the drop and hope your enemy can't turn around and destroy you. That's how I see it anyway. That said, a combo of Wolf Guard plus Grey Hunters in Pods would be pretty nice.

It used to make more sense to take Grey Hunters. It doesn't anymore. If you can't cripple an Eldar, Tau or Daemons Army immediately, you lose. Wolf Guard are 23 points per model, Grey hunters are 16 (assuming full squads, no upgrades). So WG put out 4x the fire power per point on turn 1, at a 50% reduction in durability per point.

The thing is, if you don't make a dent in a 6ed competitive list immediately, Marines die in bulk. Wolf Guard can do it, Grey hunters cannot

Gh are better as allies to Guard or Vanilla Marines, but in a pure Wolves build, if you want to "compete," I don't think GHs do enough damage. It's just the nature of 6ed right now.

As an Ork player SW's are the only army I struggle against. The GH is still a great defensive Troop/objective holder. 2 special weapons are still cheap and great. BP, CC, and Bolter combined with counter attack is still great.

As has been said above, it the offensive part of Wolves that needs help. Drop pods are viable and offer some cover. GH's still can put out a lot of shots at 12" and even if you fall back on their turn you still auto-rally.

10 GH's plus two MM in pod comes out to 190 I think. X6 is 1140. Have some unit with dual plas and some other with dual flamer. Add 3 units of WG in Pods and you'd get 5 pods in on turn one. There's just only so much interceptor that the opp. will have that something will survive to shoot, and then be shot, then assault on turn 2.

It should take 4.5 Tau FW's to kill a single GH. Something will survive.

Yeah against flyers? No ideas.

 PipeAlley wrote:
Yeah against flyers? No ideas.

I think this is where a lot of Wolf players struggle but I think this is the only time where the right setup of Longfangs and Krak missiles will shine. Yes, they do not have Skyfire and the math on MLs is horrible, but with RPs and Div there's a key way to improve the odds.

I was reading about a Wolves tournament list that went for a 4-0 run after a crushing loss and ended up winning the tournament with a pretty standard build of GH's, Longfangs, Runepriests, etc. I don't have the list, but what I do know was that he was playing WG TDA as WG Pack Leaders, wrapping one of those WG with a CML on his back in as the leader of the LF ML unit, juiced up by the RP with Div and Prescience.

It ends up being 7 TL ML shots a turn, which has proven remarkably powerful for me versus CSM, vehicles, etc. but has done NOTHING for me versus, what essentially amounted to, a 4 Demon Prince Chaos Demons list. That just crushed me.

I can't help, as I continue to play and gain experience with these Wolves, to think that @Martel732 is right, Tau/Eldar/Demons is just going to continue to crush everything out there just because they woke up this morning.

As a SW player a easier way to get that anti air would be to ally in the C:SM.

Hq of choice
Min scout unit
Storm Talon
Storm Raven

notbriang wrote:

 PipeAlley wrote:
Yeah against flyers? No ideas.

I think this is where a lot of Wolf players struggle but I think this is the only time where the right setup of Longfangs and Krak missiles will shine. Yes, they do not have Skyfire and the math on MLs is horrible, but with RPs and Div there's a key way to improve the odds.

I was reading about a Wolves tournament list that went for a 4-0 run after a crushing loss and ended up winning the tournament with a pretty standard build of GH's, Longfangs, Runepriests, etc. I don't have the list, but what I do know was that he was playing WG TDA as WG Pack Leaders, wrapping one of those WG with a CML on his back in as the leader of the LF ML unit, juiced up by the RP with Div and Prescience.

It ends up being 7 TL ML shots a turn, which has proven remarkably powerful for me versus CSM, vehicles, etc. but has done NOTHING for me versus, what essentially amounted to, a 4 Demon Prince Chaos Demons list. That just crushed me.

I can't help, as I continue to play and gain experience with these Wolves, to think that @Martel732 is right, Tau/Eldar/Demons is just going to continue to crush everything out there just because they woke up this morning.

7 Twinlinked MLs does .7 HP to a Drake with about a 9% chance of destruction. That unit is over 200 points, more expensive than the Drake it's shooting at it (not that points plus versus points for is a fair way of looking at the game)

Martel is not right, it's just most SW players are stuck in a 5ed mindset. Try out the Combi bomb list I posted, even if you use proxies. That list is solid and very playable in 6ed, even in a truly competitive mindset. It's a staggering amount of firepower T1/2, and arguably the best alpha strike in the game. It can win against the big 3; with Eldar being the toughest fight.

anonymou5 wrote:
It used to make more sense to take Grey Hunters. It doesn't anymore. If you can't cripple an Eldar, Tau or Daemons Army immediately, you lose. Wolf Guard are 23 points per model, Grey hunters are 16 (assuming full squads, no upgrades). So WG put out 4x the fire power per point on turn 1, at a 50% reduction in durability per point.

The thing is, if you don't make a dent in a 6ed competitive list immediately, Marines die in bulk. Wolf Guard can do it, Grey hunters cannot

GH are 15 points no upgrades. A full WG squad is more expensive, and if you take Logan as an HQ instead of a Rune Priest, you just spent 175 points extra on your HQ. So a Logan all WG list is a lot less bodies. I would think a mix of WG and GH with a Rune Priest would make more sense...



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PipeAlley wrote:
10 GH's plus two MM in pod comes out to 190 I think.

If you mean meltas instead of Multi Meltas, then yes, 190 with the pod.

Super Newb wrote:

anonymou5 wrote:
It used to make more sense to take Grey Hunters. It doesn't anymore. If you can't cripple an Eldar, Tau or Daemons Army immediately, you lose. Wolf Guard are 23 points per model, Grey hunters are 16 (assuming full squads, no upgrades). So WG put out 4x the fire power per point on turn 1, at a 50% reduction in durability per point.

The thing is, if you don't make a dent in a 6ed competitive list immediately, Marines die in bulk. Wolf Guard can do it, Grey hunters cannot

GH are 15 points no upgrades. A full WG squad is more expensive, and if you take Logan as an HQ instead of a Rune Priest, you just spent 175 points extra on your HQ. So a Logan all WG list is a lot less bodies. I would think a mix of WG and GH with a Rune Priest would make more sense...



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PipeAlley wrote:
10 GH's plus two MM in pod comes out to 190 I think.

If you mean meltas instead of Multi Meltas, then yes, 190 with the pod.

Scroll up a bit, I broke down how I run the combi bomb at 1850. You don't sacrifice a Rune Priest, you generally run 2. There is some merit in running GHs plus WG (in which case I would run 9 pods, minimal upgrades), but I've play tested the hell out of some Wolf builds, and in my opinion maximizing your alpha strike is the best bet. 42 combi weapons, 5 Multi Meltas, 2 Cyclone shots is no joke. Add in two Priests (shut down powers for Daemons and Eldar, kill Riptides) and it's a very optimized list for the current meta. Logan's high king ability is huge on T2 as well.