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So now it only costs 35pts to put a command squad on bikes (down from 90pts last edition). Coupled with Grav weapons and the new rules for white scars chapter tactics, I can easily see them being the new unit for SM this gen.

For example, a Command squad now all on bikes with an Apothecary and 4 combi-weapons of your choice is now 190 points. Have Khan in your army and then can scout forward toward something you need dead like a riptide...

So what do they do after they've blown their load? Charge?

Why go with Combi-weapons when you can have the real thing?

 Grey Templar wrote:
Why go with Combi-weapons when you can have the real thing?

No you can't. Reread your codex.

The removal of full special weapons from command squads is one thing I'm hopping they clarify in a FAQ. Right now they are melee and ranged, not special. Which is a change from the previous codex. The question was wether it was intentional or an omission.

 Nevelon wrote:
The removal of full special weapons from command squads is one thing I'm hopping they clarify in a FAQ. Right now they are melee and ranged, not special. Which is a change from the previous codex. The question was wether it was intentional or an omission.

Might be an omission, there are special weapons in the Command Squad box and the DA Command Squad still has full access to specials. I'm not going to jump to any conclusions, however.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Why go with Combi-weapons when you can have the real thing?

No you can't. Reread your codex.

They changed that? Darn.

I only got a quick look at some things in the codex. Command Squads was not what I was looking at either(Centurions and AA tanks mostly)


Its pretty major if it is intentional. Cmd Squads have always had full special weapons available. Even I have a command plasma squad(with obligatory "Totally Worth It!" marine)

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
The removal of full special weapons from command squads is one thing I'm hopping they clarify in a FAQ. Right now they are melee and ranged, not special. Which is a change from the previous codex. The question was wether it was intentional or an omission.

Might be an omission, there are special weapons in the Command Squad box and the DA Command Squad still has full access to specials. I'm not going to jump to any conclusions, however.

I'm seeing a lot of things that might be typos/omissions. And given how badly the DA codex was botched when it came to the same problems....

If they are FAQed to have access to special weapons, then they could be cheesy, though grav guns are still weak against hordes, and the next three armies will likely have good horde builds (Tyranids, IG, and Orks), and so while they would likely be a great counter to certain aspects of the current meta, you'd likely need to tweak them to include a flamer or perhaps plasma going forward.

If FAQed, all plasma might be the best configuration. Lots of s7 ap2 shots to work with, so they could easily tackle MCs, light vehicles, and elite infantry.

But right now I think they're good but not too chessy because they can only take combi-weapons, and not the real thing. Very capable of completing a specific objective quickly if necessary.

It also doesn't count the jump packs as bulky. So going by the wording for the Storm Raven you could have up to 12 Jump marines in one.

I'm pretty sure that is a mistake.

I'm hoping the lack of Plasmaguns is a mistake also, because otherwise my Cmd Squad is going to need a refit.

Jump Infantry are bulky as standard. So thats not a mistake unless their entry only says "Infantry". And the Jump Pack rules don't say "model becomes Jump Infantry"

 Sir Blayse wrote:
It also doesn't count the jump packs as bulky. So going by the wording for the Storm Raven you could have up to 12 Jump marines in one.

I'm pretty sure that is a mistake.

I'm hoping the lack of Plasmaguns is a mistake also, because otherwise my Cmd Squad is going to need a refit.

The main rulebook declares them as bulky I believe, so it doesn't need to be n the codex to be true.

Doesn't each model have to take a bike for 35 per bike?

From wrote:
Doesn't each model have to take a bike for 35 per bike?

No it reads 35pts, not 35 pts/model

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

From wrote:
Doesn't each model have to take a bike for 35 per bike?

No it reads 35pts, not 35 pts/model

mfw I double checked... (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ✧

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
The removal of full special weapons from command squads is one thing I'm hopping they clarify in a FAQ. Right now they are melee and ranged, not special. Which is a change from the previous codex. The question was wether it was intentional or an omission.

Might be an omission, there are special weapons in the Command Squad box and the DA Command Squad still has full access to specials. I'm not going to jump to any conclusions, however.

The balance with the DA comes from the fact that their command squads cannot be taken on bikes. They can take Ravenwing command squads, but you need a HQ on a bike to unlock them, and they have no special weapon options. (They of course do have plasma talons though.) So you can't compare them to be honest.

3 SM bikes, with 2 grav guns and a combi grav comes in at a little over 100 points. You could take nearly 2 squads for the same price, so I would say its not going to be worth it, and certainly not the new cheese.

They equate out to be 27 points a pop, before the apothecary or upgrades.

This compares to the 21 points a pop of the normal bikes.

With FNP, they have roughly the same amount of durability as normal bikes. They have less dakka per point as normal bikes (as your paying more for that durability) but more choppa per point (as your getting twice the attacks in assault)
Is it worth it? Well.....that depends on how you play.

Lets get one thing clear though. They are NOT going to be nearly as powerful as a JetSeer Council. Those will clobber the heck out of a C:SM command squad.

I have an old chaplain on bike. Now that he can take his own command squad, I'm thinking of kitting out a CC squad to join him.

Once I get all the dust off him. It's been years since he last saw the table.

I don't know what exactly you're calling a JetSeer Council, but if we're talking about the same kind of stuff, that's around a nice 800+pts... (8 Warlocks, 2 Farseers, Baron Sathonyx, plus a few Singing Spears in it).

That CS-on-bike unit is more around 200pts so not quite on the same scale.

We weren't comparing costs really. But I wouldn't use a bike command squad to kill a Jetlock Council anyway.

So an FAQ has just been released that allows command squads to take special weapons now. Which means you can now have all 4 of your veterans take Gravguns + Apothecary + bikes, all 4 210 points.

Not bad at all.

So... 5 grav guns or 4 grav guns + apothecary?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
So... 5 grav guns or 4 grav guns + apothecary?

Or 5 Grav Guns and an Apothecary, because the Apothecary upgrade just says it's upgrading a Veteran and taking a Narthecium, not replacing any of his other wargear. So buy him stuff as he's a veteran, then upgrade him to Apothecary.

TehCheator wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
So... 5 grav guns or 4 grav guns + apothecary?

Or 5 Grav Guns and an Apothecary, because the Apothecary upgrade just says it's upgrading a Veteran and taking a Narthecium, not replacing any of his other wargear. So buy him stuff as he's a veteran, then upgrade him to Apothecary.

There a huge debate on that, since its the same wording on the DA codex as well I believe. Pretty sure the consensus is no you can't, but then someone said a tourney official let them so I have no idea

TehCheator wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
So... 5 grav guns or 4 grav guns + apothecary?

Or 5 Grav Guns and an Apothecary, because the Apothecary upgrade just says it's upgrading a Veteran and taking a Narthecium, not replacing any of his other wargear. So buy him stuff as he's a veteran, then upgrade him to Apothecary.

An Apothecary is not a Veteran, he's an Apothecary. He can't have a grav gun for exactly the same reason a Veteran Sergeant can't carry the squad's plasma cannon.

But it's not the same:
A Veteran can first pick upgrades, THEN upgrade to a Priest (I'm a BA-player, I call them priests)

Tactical squads tell us that a "Space Marine" can take a Plasma Cannon.
A "Space Marine sgt" is always a different model that can never take the Cannon.
It would be possible if you have to upgrade a "Space Marine" to a Sgt (while keeping the Wargear).

Actually a Veteran Sergeant can't carry the squad's plasma cannon because he is always a sergeant, he is never just a marine, so at no point is he given the option to take the Plasma Cannon.

Unlike the previous SM Command Squad, where the Apothecary was automatically in the squad, it's now an upgrade for a Veteran, just like the other wargear items. If you are saying you can't take multiple upgrades, then are you also saying that a veteran can't take a special weapon and a storm shield? The apothecary is just like that. At the very worst, all upgrades are purchased simultaneously, and when you purchase the special weapon upgrade, he IS a veteran, so there's nothing disallowing him from taking it.

Once he has taken the upgrades, he doesn't magically lose them when his name changes.

Yay! A price drop in command squads on bikes!

The one I run costs 435 points.
190 for the captain and 245 for the bikes with 4 meltas.
When I get that brand spankin new codex tomorrow I'm going to be happy.

Now just to get a hold of some grav guns...

Also: I like how gw sends out an erratta/faq just a few days after a brand new release.
They should have the fans proofread for them then release a complete book. Haha.
Anyway...

Yeah, it shouldn't be hard to ask a group of 5 people from places like YMDC to proofread it on location.