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It just struck me tonight that havoc squads and CSM are exactly the same. Same base cost. Same cost per model. Same options. Except, of course, the limit on special and heavy weapons has been relaxed for the havocs. The only even remotely serious drawbacks are a squad limit of 10, rather than 20 and that they don't score on the 1/3rd of missions where that matters (scouring and crusade). Otherwise, they're a CSM squad. But with more guns.

It does make me a little curious how come I haven't seen more havoc squads that are being used sort of like CSM squads, then, especially with the special weapon options. Unlike, say, guard SWSs, they have all the benefits of space marines, and a squad with a combi-plasma and 4 plasma guns seems like it would be a superb defensive weapon. I mean, that's nearly enough firepower to take down a dreadknight in a single double-tap volley, and you're talking about a squad that still has a 30" threat range on foot. I mean, this would even be scary to most fliers...

And it's still pretty cheap. That 10-man plasma deathstorm squad with an icon of vengeance is only 235 points. For 10 fearless space marines with 5 plasma weapons. I suppose there are a few limits, like it being a defensive weapon, but I'm a little curious why this isn't more common.

And it can't just be obliterators. They're going to be a rough wash with durability, and they lose the ability to change weapons, but gain the ability to fire the same weapon more than once in a row (and they're a bit more killy). Or is it just that people like heavy weapons for havocs better?

Wasn't this talked about occasionallyin the old codex? The standard answer was always, as you say: "the heavy support slots are for obliterators". But very few units (if any?) can take 5x flamers/meltas/plasmas, so it would be a shame to not use it right?

I've done it once or twice, but the main issue is really your HS slots in the FoC.

Unlike many other armies, for CSM the only significant long-ranged firepower available is concentrated is heavy support - predators, defilers, havocs, land raiders, forgefiends and obliterators. This means that those often take priority over a special weapon havoc squad - if you don't have long range firepower in your HS slots, you don't have long ranged firepower full stop.

However that's very army-conditional - I can certainly see uses for them if you've using an extremely aggressive force that's designed to get into your enemy's face as quickly as possible. Flamers, meltaguns and plasma guns are certainly capable of handling the majority of threats in the game, they just can't do it from turn 1...