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Just got my new codex and wow, with the point decreases for the bikes and the special rules for whitescrars I think it's time to break out my bike army again. Im getting almost the same amount of bikes in 1500 points as in my old codex at 1850. Here is the list.

HQ
Captain, artifice armor, bike, lightning claw primaries wrath 165

Troops

Bike squad, +3 bikes x2 plasma attack bike with multi melta 211
Bike squad, +2 bikes x2 plasma attack bike with multi melta 190
Bike squad, +2 bikes x2 plasma attack bike with multi melta 190
Bike squad, +2 bikes x2 melta, attack bike with multi melta 180
Souct squad 4 snipers cammo missile launcher 84

Fast attack
Attack bikes x2 multimelta 110

Heavy
Thunderfire cannon 100
Thunderfire cannon 100
Stalker (the missile 1) 70

Aegis defense line quad gun 100

I know the new aa tank isn't getting much love by I got to be able to kill heldrakes and a S7 ap2 armorbane missile that keeps tracking you if it misses should do the trick. I might drop the the extra bike and upgrade the melta bike squad to plasma and have 10 extra points to spend somewhere. Thoughts?

Meh, I might even keep the Plasma.

Wouldnt Khan provide a better buff for scouting and Furious charge?

Khan is a decent HQ but don't think he is worth it because you give up having a 2+ charge.

Pony_law wrote:
Khan is a decent HQ but don't think he is worth it because you give up having a 2+ charge.

I don't mean to be inflammatory here, but what does this mean? 2+ Armor Save on the turn you charge so it's good vs. overwatch? If that's the case, I suppose I don't see the logic behind it - your Captain will only be able to protect a single small squad when charging.

On the other hand, taking Khan is both a) cheaper and b) buffs your whole army, giving them the option to outflank/scout if they want. Really, I feel that with White Scars, taking Khan is going to benefit you a lot more than any other single character, due to tactical flexibility and all

typo on the charge comment. khanis 15 points cheaper than what I have now but he doesn't have a 5 shot BS5 master crafted bolter with shred, and he lacks a 2+ save which is good. Scout is a good skill but not sure it is worth giving up the 2+ save for. Furious charge is nice but largely useless for a bike list because except against tau and DE I pretty much never want to be in combat.

Why all the plasma? Surely Grav is a much better option 3 shots at 18" is better than 2 at 12". I would take a combi-grav on the sarge too.

I would get the Captain a better CC weapon and consider getting him a 3++. Also are you tight on points? Why not a Chapter Master since you aren't taking a command squad. Also why no bike command they are ludicrously cheap now.

The AA tank is called a Hunter they work better in pairs. Not convinced 2 TFCs are needed in a bike army.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Why all the plasma? Surely Grav is a much better option 3 shots at 18" is better than 2 at 12". I would take a combi-grav on the sarge too.

I would get the Captain a better CC weapon and consider getting him a 3++. Also are you tight on points? Why not a Chapter Master since you aren't taking a command squad. Also why no bike command they are ludicrously cheap now.

The AA tank is called a Hunter they work better in pairs. Not convinced 2 TFCs are needed in a bike army.

Interesting thoughts, let me explain my reasoning why I didn't make those choices.

First, on grav-weapons vs plasma, plasma does the job better against everything that isn't a GUO, wraithknights, or riptide. Almost the 24" vs 18" is significant as CC squats death to my bikes and its harder to stay out of an assault threat bubble at 17.8". That said grav weapons might be worth play testing but I don't think are auto includes at this poit.

No command squad because as of today I can't take 4 special weapons with them. They are relatively cheap but if you trick them out for cc (which is all you can do ATM) they get expensive and are not good for what you get 1w 3+ guys with FNP die pretty easy.

Thunderfire cannons at amazing and I take 2 because it helps cover against high model count armies which bike lists can struggle against because I don't put out a huge amount of damage.

Looks good! I would probably try to squeze a power fist in one of your squads for the flexibility of actually causing harm in CC if you have to charge, and also be able to touch tanks and dreads better.

Also, when shooting attack bikes' multimelta on armor, from your bike squads, you are wasting some bolter fire. I'd remove two of them to form another separate 2 attack bike unit.

First, on grav-weapons vs plasma, plasma does the job better against everything that isn't a GUO, wraithknights, or riptide.

? Against Terminators at 18" range the grav weapons are literally three times as effective at 12" 1.5 times as effective. Against MEQ we're looking at 1.33 wounds per gun vs 0.55 wounds or 1.11 wounds at 12". At 18" range you should annihilate enough to prevent CC. You're comparing a hit vs a hit and saying plasma is better against lots of things. But the grav gets 3 shots at any range the plasma maxes out at 2 in the very dangerous 12" range. On anything relentless Grab is the better option on anything that isn't then Plasma makes more sense.

I was thinking more upgrade Captain to CM. I can see why you can't special weapon spam. 4 gravs would be ludicrously good.

Pony_law wrote:
First, on grav-weapons vs plasma, plasma does the job better against everything that isn't a GUO, wraithknights, or riptide. Almost the 24" vs 18" is significant as CC squats death to my bikes and its harder to stay out of an assault threat bubble at 17.8". That said grav weapons might be worth play testing but I don't think are auto includes at this poit.

I see what you're saying for the most part, but this is pretty much completely untrue.
======================================================================================
MEQ
To Hit | To Wound | Failed Save | Failed FnP | # of Shots | Unit Cost | Dakka per Point
Plasmagun 0.66 | 0.84 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 15 | 73.92
Grav Rifle 0.66 | 0.66 | 1 | 1 | 3 | 15 | 87.91
======================================================================================
GEQ
To Hit | To Wound | Failed Save | Failed FnP | # of Shots | Unit Cost | Dakka per Point
Plasmagun 0.66 | 0.84 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 15 | 73.92
Grav Rifle 0.66 | 0.33 | 1 | 1 | 3 | 15 | 43.96
======================================================================================
TEQ
To Hit | To Wound | Failed Save | Failed FnP | # of Shots | Unit Cost | Dakka per Point
Plasmagun 0.66 | 0.84 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 15 | 49.23
Grav Rifle 0.66 | 0.84 | 1 | 1 | 3 | 15 | 73.85
======================================================================================
MCEQ
To Hit | To Wound | Failed Save | Failed FnP | # of Shots | Unit Cost | Dakka per Point
Plasmagun 0.66 | 0.66 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 15 | 39.03
Grav Rifle 0.66 | 0.33 | 1 | 1 | 3 | 15 | 58.55

The formula for these numbers is as follows: Dakka Per Point =[ (To Hit) x (To Wound) x (Failed Save) x (Failed FnP) x (# of Shots) ] / (Unit Cost)

As you can see, Plasmaguns are only better against GEQ. I've also made the generous assumption that the plasmagun is in rapid fire range, the grav weapon can get these numbers @ 18", yes that is technically in assault range but it's a damn small chance that an average unit will make a 12" charge.

In summary, the Grav guns is worse against GEQ and probably also against light vehicles seeing as it needs a 6 to do anything.

I would field a Bike Command Squad with an Apothecary probably with Grav Weapons led by a Chapter Master on a Bike with the Shield Eternal, a Thunderhammer, and Artificer Armor.

He is a T5 4W 2+3++ ET 5+FNP that can tank for a squad that can dish out an unsurpassed amount of Grav pain and with a couple of upgrades some serious CC damage as well.

Is the AA-tank really necessary with the ADL+Quad? Dropping the tank could lead to some more bikes.