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Does dakka think 15-20 naked genestealers will make a difference in moderately competitive play? My theory is that, with infiltrate, they allow you to deploy outside of your deployment zone, in terrain of your choosing, and that much closer to your opponent.

If you can 'outflank' an opponent and hem them in a corner, you're already controlling 3/4s of the board. If they try to denied flank you, you now have their whole half of the deployment zone to fill.

I'm trying to design a list around a 'press' of bodies that hit on turn 2. Genestealers are critical because they can rend (which can take down T8-9 monstrocities) and are automatically strength 4 which means they can multi-assault vehicles and actually hope to do something.



What do we think?

That idea sounds good in theory , but will those Stealers even suvive a turn of sitting out in the open to a Gunline ? I personally as a Mech Guard player would really Just laugh and procede to shoot you apart with the mass amounts of lasguns , Multi-lasers and maybe some Heavy bolters if enough survived , And relying on Rending sets you up for Failure , i perrsonally think the points put into stealers would be better spent on Gaunts of more MCs's

They used to be great in 5th when you could assault from outflanking. I used to run 2x 20 and they rocked.

Now rapid fire got buffed, there's overwatch, cover went to mostly 5+, FnP went to 5+, and no more assaulting from reserves. They work occasionally but most opponents pack enough small arms fire to mow them down.

Remember to take advantage of the interaction between Fearless and Go to Ground.

I have literally been staring at the codex for about 2 hours trying to figure out a good solution to this problem, as I have around 40 or 50 genestealers sitting lonely in a box.

The best I've been able to come up with is deploying them with venomthropes for the 5+ cover save, throwing them all in cover to give them 3+ or better and then working from there. They're just too squishy and not expendable enough to be viable in a lot of situations...

I used genestealers in my last game against footdar. With FnP and g2g in cover they weathered 2 full turns of shooting from 10 strong units of guardians with platforms along with some reaper missiles. They did great with a Broodlord up front. 1 brought 4 5 man units of genestealers, each with broodlords that rolled on Biomancy.

2 got iron arm, the other 2 endurance... Unfortunately we only got to play 2 rounds.

I think that using several small units works well with lots of psykers to pass around endurance because then it will take roughly 2-3 enemy units firing at 1 you it of genestealers your other big baddies won't get targeted. Now are they going to manage this every time, no. But with 2 genestealers units being crammed down your throat along with a Flyrant, doom, maybe some Trygons and your enemy has himself a problem.

Think about how frustrating it would be to pump 3 of your units firepower into them expecting them to die and they don't.

1 big unit will have trouble with getting every model into cover and then they can be focus fired out. Then you can't fully take advantage or the g2g and fearless trick.

Pm me and I'll give you a better synopsis privately.

I put all my genestealers all in a box until the new codex. There just isnt a constantly effective way to use them. Its all a prayer to the dice gods. Really the only competitive nid list ive managed to use is the tervigon spam list.

roxor08 wrote:
I used genestealers in my last game against footdar. With FnP and g2g in cover they weathered 2 full turns of shooting from 10 strong units of guardians with platforms along with some reaper missiles. They did great with a Broodlord up front. 1 brought 4 5 man units of genestealers, each with broodlords that rolled on Biomancy.

2 got iron arm, the other 2 endurance... Unfortunately we only got to play 2 rounds.

I think that using several small units works well with lots of psykers to pass around endurance because then it will take roughly 2-3 enemy units firing at 1 you it of genestealers your other big baddies won't get targeted. Now are they going to manage this every time, no. But with 2 genestealers units being crammed down your throat along with a Flyrant, doom, maybe some Trygons and your enemy has himself a problem.

Think about how frustrating it would be to pump 3 of your units firepower into them expecting them to die and they don't.

1 big unit will have trouble with getting every model into cover and then they can be focus fired out. Then you can't fully take advantage or the g2g and fearless trick.

Pm me and I'll give you a better synopsis privately.

They did great going to ground in a 2 turn game? And doing nothing at all? If that's the state of a dedicated assault unit, you're doing it wrong or the units not worth it.

Yup, wait for the new codex - genestealers are due for a rules buff (not that that's any guarantee, but here's hoping).

Although I suppose you could deliberately play them at the moment just to let them die en masse and thus fool your opponents into a false sense of security before the new codex arrives...

I would love to run a Genestealer list, they have been one of my favourites since I was a kid.

 hyv3mynd wrote:

roxor08 wrote:
I used genestealers in my last game against footdar. With FnP and g2g in cover they weathered 2 full turns of shooting from 10 strong units of guardians with platforms along with some reaper missiles. They did great with a Broodlord up front. 1 brought 4 5 man units of genestealers, each with broodlords that rolled on Biomancy.

2 got iron arm, the other 2 endurance... Unfortunately we only got to play 2 rounds.

I think that using several small units works well with lots of psykers to pass around endurance because then it will take roughly 2-3 enemy units firing at 1 you it of genestealers your other big baddies won't get targeted. Now are they going to manage this every time, no. But with 2 genestealers units being crammed down your throat along with a Flyrant, doom, maybe some Trygons and your enemy has himself a problem.

Think about how frustrating it would be to pump 3 of your units firepower into them expecting them to die and they don't.

1 big unit will have trouble with getting every model into cover and then they can be focus fired out. Then you can't fully take advantage or the g2g and fearless trick.

Pm me and I'll give you a better synopsis privately.

They did great going to ground in a 2 turn game? And doing nothing at all? If that's the state of a dedicated assault unit, you're doing it wrong or the units not worth it.

I realize that they are a dedicated assault unit not accomplishing that....but we all know that they can't just bum rush the enemy like they could in the previous edition...So why not attempt to use them a different way? Ultimately, until the new codex is out, Tyranid lists are much more about keeping Doom of Malan'Tai, Flyrants/Swarmlord, and Tervigons alive longer. The longer you have those units alive, the more damage you can do, the more objectives you can hold.

Plus, your Trygons, that are also a dedicated assault unit that bum rush the opponent can die before they can even reach enemy...doing nothing. For 200 points. Why not use genestealers that cost between 118-150 points who can do the same thing (soak up enemy fire) PLUS you get a psyker out of the deal that can buff his own unit OR other units.

I think that, even though your dedicated assault unit isn't bum rushing the enemy, doesn't mean they aren't doing "what they're meant for". Because of the genestealer nerf, smart tacticians need to re-invent ways of the past. That's all I was suggesting.

roxor08 wrote:
Plus, your Trygons, that are also a dedicated assault unit that bum rush the opponent can die before they can even reach enemy...doing nothing. For 200 points. Why not use genestealers that cost between 118-150 points who can do the same thing (soak up enemy fire) PLUS you get a psyker out of the deal that can buff his own unit OR other units.

Trygon Primes have a decent Anti-Infantry shooting attack, as well as being good in assault, especially against light armour or small groups of infantry. And at T6 they take a lot more fire or some anti-tank to put down effectively. And their 3+ sv means they can survive a lot of the anti-infantry fire that hits them.

Ive tried using genestealers, but generally they dont do very well for their very significant points cost.

 HerbaciousT wrote:

roxor08 wrote:
Plus, your Trygons, that are also a dedicated assault unit that bum rush the opponent can die before they can even reach enemy...doing nothing. For 200 points. Why not use genestealers that cost between 118-150 points who can do the same thing (soak up enemy fire) PLUS you get a psyker out of the deal that can buff his own unit OR other units.

Trygon Primes have a decent Anti-Infantry shooting attack, as well as being good in assault, especially against light armour or small groups of infantry. And at T6 they take a lot more fire or some anti-tank to put down effectively. And their 3+ sv means they can survive a lot of the anti-infantry fire that hits them.

Ive tried using genestealers, but generally they dont do very well for their very significant points cost.

All of this is true. I'm not denying that. I'm just suggesting that a 5 man genestealer unit with a BL that has IA is just about as survivable. The genestealers are ablative wounds, but if they make it to combat great!

I think that the 50 point differential is the key that I'm trying to point out. For 150 points you "essentially" get a 8 wound Trygon (that has rending instead of AP2) that has the chance to get IA, endurance, enfeeble AND are scoring. They don't have a natural 3+ save, but with a 3+ cover save by going to ground, and feel no pain, you can force an opponent to deal with them. Then get them fearless and they get up again and keep charging at you.

I agree that maybe it's a stretch, but I'd rather pay 150 points for almost a Trygon than paying 200.

I wouldn't take a T4 W8 Trygon without Smash, a 3+ or a shooting attack for 150 points when I could take a T6 W6 Trygon with all those things for 200.