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Black Legion

HQ- Daemon Prince, armor, wings Tzeentch, LVL 3 Psyker, Spell Familiar, Eye of night and Last Memory

Troops- 10 Cultists with 9 Autoguns
10 Cultists

Fast- Heldrake w/ baleflamer

Heavy- 3xDefilers

CSM- Daemon Prince, wings, armor, tzeentch, LVL 3 Psyker, Spell Familiar, Burning Brand

Troops- 2x 7man CSM w/ Plasma Gun

I leave the troops in reserve and just try to bring out to run towards objectives mostly

The Defiler isn't really a good unit, I'd go so far as to say it's broken. Ok, it can use its ordnance 72" 5" gun, but can only offer BF3 to reduce scatter. If it does use it's ordnance weapon, it cannot shoot it's flamer and can only do snapshots with it's other weapon. You can stick on more guns, but they share the same problem.

In melee can have 3 power fists and the flail, but thanks to the wider range of the comparison between melee skill, the flail doesn't do that much. I'll kill squishy troops, but will get tarpitted easily, lacking a high number of attacks. For the same points as that loadout, you can take a deamon prince with big loadout and more options.

Your list coming with three of Defilers means you have long range ordnance and between the three, you might hit something, but for less points than those 600 you might pick up another two drakes and some obliterators or a predator with lasercannons.

Sounds like you're using logic lol I have only played 1 game with defilers, being this list vs Tau, in 6th. So damn expensive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I loved them in 5th.

Have you played tau with this list yet? I feel that the tau will wreck you with mass of fire. Especially if you only have a few troops.

Tau is the list I won against. Today I played Against Eldar who beat me...

Purge alien on hammer and anvil:
Batrep for Tau: I have first turn. Deploy defilers about 40" away from his front line, no night fighting btw, and DP's right behind them in case he seizes :/ 1 small squad CSM in rear cover. Everything else reserve.

He has 2 hammerheads, 1 in each corner of his deployment. Riptide in a corner behind tall cover. 3 fire warrior squads at front of deployment zone.

Infiltrates 10 kroots w/sniper rounds 18" from my defilers in the open haha
2x5 man pathfinders 12-18" away from my defilers.

Crisis team with shadowsun and commander in reserve
2x10 snoots, is that the proper term? In reserve outflanking.

Tau seize initiative...hammerheads shift for jink then whiff shots. Fire warriors all out of range. Marker lights on black legion DP gets hit with seeker missile thing, suffers wound. Kroots fire, all saved or miss. Riptide immobilizes my far right defiler, perfect position anyhow so I'm cool with it

My turn, Swoop FMC over the kroots. Vector strike over pathfinders kill 2. Eye a hammerhead 1 pen lands a crew stunned 75pts worth??? Idk... Last memory on LVL 3 cause 44 hits!!! Kroots lose all but 1, pathfinder squads lose 2 and 3, a fire warrior squad loses 4 another fire warrior squad loses 5 and 3rd is out of range. Burning brand smokes 4 fire warriors of whom 4 are dead already from.

Defilers fire at hammerheads and cause crew shaken knock off 2 HP of one, the other cover saves.

End of turn, 2 fire warrior squads fall back, kroot falls back, 1 pathfinder falls back. Things are going glorious

His turn 2 snap firing hammerheads and 1 can't move. Small fire warriors regroup, larger one keeps falling back, kroot falls back, pathfinders regroup.

He deep strikes crisis onto the side about 7" away from left side defiler, snoots outflank onto my left as well. Fire warriors all that can move and shoot BL DP causing 2 wounds, stays flying CSM DP unscathed. Fusion blasters and plasma rock my left defiler to 1 HP missing a P. fist and reaper haha snoots kill a marine.

My Heldrake comes in along with 2 cultists and CSM. Drake kills 1 suit with meteoric. Last memory kills the pathfinders and 1 fire warrior squad. Life leeches 2 W back to 3-4. Burning brand kills another fire warrior squad. Defilers wreck hammerhead, other still at 2 HP and fine. Cultists and CSM fire at kroots killing about 12 between the 2 squads. Bale kills 2 suits and wounds commander.

By the end of game I still had 2 defilers and 4 troops, albeit beaten down (plasma killed themselves, both...) and both DP at full W.

He had Riptide and commander. Game went 5 turns


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I'll write Eldar results tmw...shuriken murders MC...

Little change to list after Eldar obliterated me.

Black Legion
DP- Last Memory, LVL 3, spell familiar, wings and armor tzeentch
DP- eye of night, spine shiver blade, wings, armor, tzeentch

Troops- 2x 10 cultists

Fast- 2x1 Spawn, to hopefully bog more than one unit in shooting/cc

Heavy- 3x Defilers

Ally Daemons

HQ- herald slaanesh

Troops- 20 Daemonettes
18 daemonettes

Heavy- 3 alluress on seeker chariot

The Eldar game shined a spotlight on how easy DP's are to take down with twin linked snap shots and doom :/ with noooo other nearby threats.

So remedy is 5 models that move 12" with run +3" and or fleet
And a wave of very fast troops that can rend apart MC and light armor.

I don't really know the daemon codex at all. Looking at your list I like the DP with last memory, but I'm not sure you can give the other DP 2 chaos artefact weapons.... I'm not a fan of defiler either, 195 points each and if you use your battle cannons everything else is snap shots. why not vindicators or tri-las predators with some points left for anything else. Defilers are just so expensive point wise for what they give.

IMHO the Defiler has taken much more flak than it deserves. In the current meta is is quite difficult to kill especially with Tau and Eldar. In most Tau and Eldar lists most AV is handled by mass S6/7, and the Defiler absolutely rocks against that king of firepower. They aren't gaining bonuses to the Vehicle Damage table and have to rely on stripping its Monstrous 4HP away through the 5++ and the IWND. Unless it it is being hit with AP2/1 weaponry it is quite resilient to most AT that is dominating the Meta Currently, not to mention its 5++ which makes it 50% more difficult to wreck by HP stripping out in the open.

BS3 isn't as inaccurage as most think. It has a 44% chance of landing within 1" of its target, 52% within 3", and ~83% within 5". Not quite automissing. Ordinance allows it to be an effective cover/ADL negating weapon as well and an effective way to strip an HP off or hindering of an AV12/13 Vehicle.

I think a Nurgle Soul Grinder with Phlem is a better buy for a directly comparable unit, but the range of the Defile is pretty great. I believe the Nurgle Soul Grinder is better as it can sit behind a Ruins for a 2+ Cover save and it has AV13 front.

Is the Defiler great, no, but I don't think it is as bad as the Internet is currently making it out to be. I know I certainly don't like facing them with my Farsight Enclave.

 Zagman wrote:
IMHO the Defiler has taken much more flak than it deserves. In the current meta is is quite difficult to kill especially with Tau and Eldar. In most Tau and Eldar lists most AV is handled by mass S6/7, and the Defiler absolutely rocks against that king of firepower. They aren't gaining bonuses to the Vehicle Damage table and have to rely on stripping its Monstrous 4HP away through the 5++ and the IWND. Unless it it is being hit with AP2/1 weaponry it is quite resilient to most AT that is dominating the Meta Currently, not to mention its 5++ which makes it 50% more difficult to wreck by HP stripping out in the open.

BS3 isn't as inaccurage as most think. It has a 44% chance of landing within 1" of its target, 52% within 3", and ~83% within 5". Not quite automissing. Ordinance allows it to be an effective cover/ADL negating weapon as well and an effective way to strip an HP off or hindering of an AV12/13 Vehicle.

I think a Nurgle Soul Grinder with Phlem is a better buy for a directly comparable unit, but the range of the Defile is pretty great. I believe the Nurgle Soul Grinder is better as it can sit behind a Ruins for a 2+ Cover save and it has AV13 front.

Is the Defiler great, no, but I don't think it is as bad as the Internet is currently making it out to be. I know I certainly don't like facing them with my Farsight Enclave.

The defiler does have impressive strength, but this really only matters if it gets into CC. If you keep it back as a shooting unit it's far to expensive. The BS I will not complain about because of the perks that come with losing that one to BS. It has impressive range, but a vindicator can do the same thing with more power for cheaper. The defiler does have a 5+ invulnerable save but it is easier to wound with 12 armor on the front and sides= easier to penetrate= more chances to score on the vehicle damage table against it. If it survives somehow it can only recover one hullpoint if it rolls a 5+ on the next friendly turn

Now, ill check the rules again although I'm pretty sure they state Ordinance only effects non-vehicle units. Walkers are vehicles. Fighting Eldar the other day I agree pain in the rear for him to wreck my defilers. Why don't I go more point effective? Simply because I love them I'm determined to try my damnedest to make them competitive haha.

BL codex artefacts do NOT say "replace one weapon" they simply are "may take" so I'm under the impression you don't lose weapons?

A vindicator is not the same 24" range and only 13 F 12S

I like everyone's points. I think ordinance may be confused with barrage though negating ADL. Ill check tmw.

I did miss reference Ordinance and Barrage. Barrage always scatters the full 2d6 but can be used to ignore cover ie ADL. It can never fire as ordinance, but can fire directly in which you do substract BS but do not gain the Barrage's ability to determine cover from the center of the template.

Bildini wrote:
Now, ill check the rules again although I'm pretty sure they state Ordinance only effects non-vehicle units. Walkers are vehicles. Fighting Eldar the other day I agree pain in the rear for him to wreck my defilers. Why don't I go more point effective? Simply because I love them I'm determined to try my damnedest to make them competitive haha.

BL codex artefacts do NOT say "replace one weapon" they simply are "may take" so I'm under the impression you don't lose weapons?

A vindicator is not the same 24" range and only 13 F 12S

I like everyone's points. I think ordinance may be confused with barrage though negating ADL. Ill check tmw.

Ah yea vindicator wouldn't be that good of a replacement, thought the range was a bit further... For ordinance check out page 71? And I'd rather have F13 then F12 any day.

Aha page 71....clever. Thank you.

Barrage and ordnance barrage are much different from last ed. definitely worth reading. No more direct or full scatter. Too bad ordnance doesn't ignore cover