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OK a tech marine or master of the forge can repair a vehicle with the blessing of the omnissiah skill it can restore a hull point get it moving again or repair a weapon. If the vehicle is destroyed ( ie has 0 hull points ) can I use the skill to restore a hull point to get it back up and running. Now clearly if it explodes from a penatrating hit you can't as the model is removed , but any other time it stays on the table .

If a vehicle is wrecked, it's no longer a vehicle, it's a peace of terrain.
You can't repair terrain.

"wrecked vehicles are left on the table and effectively become
a piece of terrain" page 74 BRB

effectively is not the same as actually

 grendel083 wrote:
If a vehicle is wrecked, it's no longer a vehicle, it's a peace of terrain.
You can't repair terrain.

Where did you get this rule? Page and reference please?

osirisx69 wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
If a vehicle is wrecked, it's no longer a vehicle, it's a peace of terrain.
You can't repair terrain.

Where did you get this rule? Page and reference please?

Page 74 "Wrecked Vehicles" second paragraph.

Narlix wrote:
"wrecked vehicles are left on the table and effectively become
a piece of terrain" page 74 BRB

effectively is not the same as actually

As far as 40k is concerned, it is.
treated as == effectively == counts as == is. If you assume otherwise the rules break in spectacular ways.

Narlix wrote:
effectively is not the same as actually

But in effect, they are.
It's effectively the same thing (see what I did there?)

rigeld2 wrote:

Narlix wrote:
"wrecked vehicles are left on the table and effectively become
a piece of terrain" page 74 BRB

effectively is not the same as actually

As far as 40k is concerned, it is.
treated as == effectively == counts as == is. If you assume otherwise the rules break in spectacular ways.

No you are making up rules again.

You have not posted a page or cited any reliable reference.

Again against the forums rules.

Please stop posting your opinions as actual rules.

This is a valid question and per RAW looks like it can be done.

Osiris, what part is he making up?.

MarkyMark wrote:
Osiris, what part is he making up?.

The part that effectively = actually.

2 different words 2 different meanings.

There are no rules removing the ability of a techmarine to repair a wrecked tank. Since this is a permissive game and the marine has been given permission per RAW and this forum he could attempt a repair.

So when the rules states it effectively becomes terrain, why are you not treating it as terrain?
In effect, it is terrain.

 grendel083 wrote:
So when the rules states it effectively becomes terrain, why are you not treating it as terrain?
In effect, it is terrain.

yes buts functioning as terrain but isn't actually terrain its still a vehicle.

Narlix wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
So when the rules states it effectively becomes terrain, why are you not treating it as terrain?
In effect, it is terrain.

yes buts functioning as terrain but isn't actually terrain its still a vehicle.

This.. You pretty much nailed it.

Narlix wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
So when the rules states it effectively becomes terrain, why are you not treating it as terrain?
In effect, it is terrain.

yes buts functioning as terrain but isn't actually terrain its still a vehicle.

Doesn't say function.
Rule is it "effectively becomes terrain". If you treat it as anything but, you're not following this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:
This.. You pretty much nailed it.

If you mean "nailed it" as in mis-quoted and got it wrong... Then yes, he totally nailed it.

osirisx69 wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
Osiris, what part is he making up?.

The part that effectively = actually.

2 different words 2 different meanings.

There are no rules removing the ability of a techmarine to repair a wrecked tank. Since this is a permissive game and the marine has been given permission per RAW and this forum he could attempt a repair.

ef·fec·tive·ly
adv.
1. In an effective way.
]2. For all practical purposes; in effect

For all practical purposes, it has become terrain at the point it is declared wrecked. Can you repair terrain?

 grendel083 wrote:

Narlix wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
So when the rules states it effectively becomes terrain, why are you not treating it as terrain?
In effect, it is terrain.

yes buts functioning as terrain but isn't actually terrain its still a vehicle.

Doesn't say function.
Rule is it "effectively becomes terrain". If you treat it as anything but, you're not following this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:
This.. You pretty much nailed it.

If you mean "nailed it" as in mis-quoted and got it wrong... Then yes, he totally nailed it.

No I mean nailed it as got the rules right as opposed to your "opinion" of the rules which is not correct. Hey but thanks for completely misreading the rules and trying to forge a fun narrative with false logic.

If you can cite where the tank is actually no longer a tank then I can see how you might be right.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rorschach9 wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
Osiris, what part is he making up?.

The part that effectively = actually.

2 different words 2 different meanings.

There are no rules removing the ability of a techmarine to repair a wrecked tank. Since this is a permissive game and the marine has been given permission per RAW and this forum he could attempt a repair.

ef·fec·tive·ly
adv.
1. In an effective way.

[b]2. For all practical purposes; in effect[/b]



For all practical purposes, it has become terrain at the point it is declared wrecked. Can you repair terrain?

Where in the rules does it say "For all practical purposes"?

Please cite page number.

osirisx69 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Narlix wrote:
"wrecked vehicles are left on the table and effectively become
a piece of terrain" page 74 BRB

effectively is not the same as actually

As far as 40k is concerned, it is.
treated as == effectively == counts as == is. If you assume otherwise the rules break in spectacular ways.

No you are making up rules again.

I never have in the past and am not now.

You have not posted a page or cited any reliable reference.

Terrain Type: Unique.The top surface of the Skyshield Landing Pad is
open terrain. To move onto or off of the landing pad counts as moving through difficult terrain.

Darn, we have no rules for something that counts as difficult terrain.

Once a unit has regrouped, it cannot otherwise move (so cannot
Run in the Shooting phase or charge in the Assault phase).
However,it can shoot (including Overwatch), but counts as
having moved and can only fire Snap Shots.

Darn, they only count as having moved...

Brotherhood of Psykers wrote:A unit with this special rule counts as a Mastery Level 1 Psyker

But they're not really.

While an Independent Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters.

But he's not actually part of a unit, so he's still his own unit so he can be shot without targeting the other unit. Yay!

A weapon with the Twin-linked special rule counts as a single weapon of that type,

But it's not ... hmm. I have two barrels that means it's two weapons, right?!

A model that made a Vector Strike in its Movement phase counts as having already fired one weapon in its following Shooting phase.

But it didn't actually, so it doesn't mean anything.

A Pistol also counts as a close combat weapon in the Assault phase (see page 24 and 51).

But it's not a CCW, so you get a CCW from the No Specified Weapon rule, so you get an extra attack in the assault phase! Woo!

vehicle that only pivots in the Movement phase counts as Stationary

But it wasn't stationary, so only 1 weapon fired at ballistic skill - the rest are snap shots.

base of a Flyer is effectively ignored, except for when:

It's not really ignored - you can still measure to it and stuff. Same with Skimmers.

All Pistols are effectively Assault 1weapons

But they're not really - so you have no permission to ever fire them.

Want more examples?

Again against the forums rules.

Feel free to click the triangle of friendship in the corner of this post.

This is a valid question and per RAW looks like it can be done.

You'd be right, except it can't be done.
Find permission to turn a piece of terrain into a unit.

osirisx69 wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

Narlix wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
So when the rules states it effectively becomes terrain, why are you not treating it as terrain?
In effect, it is terrain.

yes buts functioning as terrain but isn't actually terrain its still a vehicle.

Doesn't say function.
Rule is it "effectively becomes terrain". If you treat it as anything but, you're not following this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:
This.. You pretty much nailed it.

If you mean "nailed it" as in mis-quoted and got it wrong... Then yes, he totally nailed it.

No I mean nailed it as got the rules right as opposed to your "opinion" of the rules which is not correct. Hey but thanks for completely misreading the rules and trying to forge a fun narrative with false logic.

If you can cite where the tank is actually no longer a tank then I can see how you might be right.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rorschach9 wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
Osiris, what part is he making up?.

The part that effectively = actually.

2 different words 2 different meanings.

There are no rules removing the ability of a techmarine to repair a wrecked tank. Since this is a permissive game and the marine has been given permission per RAW and this forum he could attempt a repair.

ef·fec·tive·ly
adv.
1. In an effective way.

[b]2. For all practical purposes; in effect[/b]



For all practical purposes, it has become terrain at the point it is declared wrecked. Can you repair terrain?

Where in the rules does it say "For all practical purposes"?

Please cite page number.

"Effectively" = "For all practical purposes"

I realize that dictionary definitions are not rules, however people seem to be having difficulty understanding the word "effectively"

rigeld2 wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Narlix wrote:
"wrecked vehicles are left on the table and effectively become
a piece of terrain" page 74 BRB

effectively is not the same as actually

As far as 40k is concerned, it is.
treated as == effectively == counts as == is. If you assume otherwise the rules break in spectacular ways.

No you are making up rules again.

I never have in the past and am not now.

You have not posted a page or cited any reliable reference.

Terrain Type: Unique.The top surface of the Skyshield Landing Pad is
open terrain. To move onto or off of the landing pad counts as moving through difficult terrain.

Darn, we have no rules for something that counts as difficult terrain.

Once a unit has regrouped, it cannot otherwise move (so cannot
Run in the Shooting phase or charge in the Assault phase).
However,it can shoot (including Overwatch), but counts as
having moved and can only fire Snap Shots.

Darn, they only count as having moved...

Brotherhood of Psykers wrote:A unit with this special rule counts as a Mastery Level 1 Psyker

But they're not really.

While an Independent Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters.

But he's not actually part of a unit, so he's still his own unit so he can be shot without targeting the other unit. Yay!

A weapon with the Twin-linked special rule counts as a single weapon of that type,

But it's not ... hmm. I have two barrels that means it's two weapons, right?!

A model that made a Vector Strike in its Movement phase counts as having already fired one weapon in its following Shooting phase.

But it didn't actually, so it doesn't mean anything.

A Pistol also counts as a close combat weapon in the Assault phase (see page 24 and 51).

But it's not a CCW, so you get a CCW from the No Specified Weapon rule, so you get an extra attack in the assault phase! Woo!

vehicle that only pivots in the Movement phase counts as Stationary

But it wasn't stationary, so only 1 weapon fired at ballistic skill - the rest are snap shots.

base of a Flyer is effectively ignored, except for when:

It's not really ignored - you can still measure to it and stuff. Same with Skimmers.

All Pistols are effectively Assault 1weapons

But they're not really - so you have no permission to ever fire them.

Want more examples?

Again against the forums rules.

Feel free to click the triangle of friendship in the corner of this post.

This is a valid question and per RAW looks like it can be done.

You'd be right, except it can't be done.
Find permission to turn a piece of terrain into a unit.

I don't need to find a rule for repairing terrain. I need a rule for repairing a tank and I have one. Asking to find a rule that proves your point is not my job. That's yours. I have proven your can repair the tank.


LOL beside quoting a bunch of sentences that have nothing to do with a tank or terrain, what reference do you have the wrecked tank is no longer a tank?

Except your tank has effectively become terrain...
And you can't repair terrain.

osirisx69 wrote:
I don't need to find a rule for repairing terrain. I need a rule for repairing a tank and I have one. Asking to find a rule that proves your point is not my job. That's yours. I have proven your can repair the tank.

There isn't a tank on the field - there's a piece of terrain.

LOL beside quoting a bunch of sentences that have nothing to do with a tank or terrain, what reference do you have the wrecked tank is no longer a tank?

...
I proved that counts as must mean the same as effectively which must mean the same as is. Or you have rules that break in some pretty cool ways.
Which means that your interpretation cannot be correct.

 grendel083 wrote:
Except your tank has effectively become terrain...
And you can't repair terrain.

A terminator is effectively immune to all but the most powerful shots... Does that mean its immune to anything that's not powerful, no it does not.

You cant assume you know what the author is meaning, you cant assume your interpretation is correct. As RAW goes the tank that is wrecked is still a tank that effectively is treated like terrain. It blocks LOS it can be used as cover but it IS still a tank and can be repaired. That's the most BASIC rules as written interpretation. I am not repairing the terrain I am repairing the tank that is being treated as terrain until it gets repaired.

osirisx69 wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
Except your tank has effectively become terrain...
And you can't repair terrain.

A terminator is effectively immune to all but the most powerful shots... Does that mean its immune to anything that's not powerful, no it does not.

Welcome to fluff vs rules. What you've quoted here is fluff, not rules.

You cant assume you know what the author is meaning, you cant assume your interpretation is correct. As RAW goes the tank that is wrecked is still a tank that effectively is treated like terrain. It blocks LOS it can be used as cover but it IS still a tank and can be repaired. That's the most BASIC rules as written interpretation.

Demonstrably false.

rigeld2 wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
Except your tank has effectively become terrain...
And you can't repair terrain.

A terminator is effectively immune to all but the most powerful shots... Does that mean its immune to anything that's not powerful, no it does not.

Welcome to fluff vs rules. What you've quoted here is fluff, not rules.

You cant assume you know what the author is meaning, you cant assume your interpretation is correct. As RAW goes the tank that is wrecked is still a tank that effectively is treated like terrain. It blocks LOS it can be used as cover but it IS still a tank and can be repaired. That's the most BASIC rules as written interpretation.

Demonstrably false.

Ok demonstrate how a wrecked tank is no longer a tank?

I've done so.
effectively must mean the same thing as is.

rigeld2 wrote:
I've done so.
effectively must mean the same thing as is.

No you posted your opinion which is incorrect. You never sited ( like the OP did) RAW that a tank is no longer a tank when it becomes wrecked.

That needs to be cited or else you are just posting opinions again. just because you feel the word effectively mean "all encompassing and must be totally" doesn't make the rule you interpret as right.

It makes it at BEST a RAI.

osirisx69 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
I've done so.
effectively must mean the same thing as is.

No you posted your opinion which is incorrect. You never sited ( like the OP did) RAW that a tank is no longer a tank when it becomes wrecked.

That needs to be cited or else you are just posting opinions again. just because you feel the word effectively mean "all encompassing and must be totally" doesn't make the rule you interpret as right.

It makes it at BEST a RAI.

Can I ask what effectively means to you?
So far it seems to mean "not at all".

osirisx69 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
I've done so.
effectively must mean the same thing as is.

No you posted your opinion which is incorrect. You never sited ( like the OP did) RAW that a tank is no longer a tank when it becomes wrecked.

That needs to be cited or else you are just posting opinions again. just because you feel the word effectively mean "all encompassing and must be totally" doesn't make the rule you interpret as right.

It makes it at BEST a RAI.

So you actually think that RAW Pistols cannot be fired, Skimmer/Flyer bases cannot be ignored, and more?

 grendel083 wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
I've done so.
effectively must mean the same thing as is.

No you posted your opinion which is incorrect. You never sited ( like the OP did) RAW that a tank is no longer a tank when it becomes wrecked.

That needs to be cited or else you are just posting opinions again. just because you feel the word effectively mean "all encompassing and must be totally" doesn't make the rule you interpret as right.

It makes it at BEST a RAI.

Can I ask what effectively means to you?
So far it seems to mean "not at all".

My opinion of the word "effectively" has no bearing on this rule. I am just interpreting the RAW with out bring in real word example or experience's. An exhaust cloud is effectively a huge cloud of smoke and as such would block LOS BUT RAW state it only effects the model. You can t arbitrarily decide when the word 'effectively' should be used as per the dictionary. That is NOT part of 40k


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
I've done so.
effectively must mean the same thing as is.

No you posted your opinion which is incorrect. You never sited ( like the OP did) RAW that a tank is no longer a tank when it becomes wrecked.

That needs to be cited or else you are just posting opinions again. just because you feel the word effectively mean "all encompassing and must be totally" doesn't make the rule you interpret as right.

It makes it at BEST a RAI.

So you actually think that RAW Pistols cannot be fired, Skimmer/Flyer bases cannot be ignored, and more?

I have no idea why you are making up ideas or words for me but please stop.

Nothing in this post is relevant to the topic at hand please. Please bring it back to topic.

osirisx69 wrote:
You can t arbitrarily deciding when the word effectively should be used as per the dictionary is NOT part of 40k

There is no rulebook definition of the term "effectively".
Normally we must then use the actual meaning of the word.
Are you saying we shouldn't? And in fact assign no meaning at all?
There are hundreds of undefined words, so they all have no meaning?

And it isn't just the word effective.
It effectively becomes terrain. It is a vehicle no longer as it has become something else.
Is "become" also to be ignored, because the game does not define this term?
You'll rapidly find no rule works if you go down this route.