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Dark Eldar vs new White Scars, 1250! Critique please!  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in ca
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe






This'll be my first real game as Dark Eldar, and I'll be playing my friend's DA-proxied-as-SMurfs as he tests out the new codex. He's said he plans on bring a white scars list, so I'm assuming lots of T5 speed. I know he bought a box of the Centurion models, and I expect he'll be playing them as Devastators with the shiny new grav weapons he's so hot for.
Here's what I'm thinking, @1250pts:

HQ - Haemonculus w/Venom Blade, LG -65

Troops -
10 Kabalite Warrior, SC, Raider w/Dis Cannon, SR & NS - 180
10 Kabalite Warrior, SC, Raider w/Dis Cannon, SR & NS - 180
9 Wracks, LG, Raider w/NS - 170
5 Wyches, Haywire, Venom w/extra SC - 125
5 Wyches, Haywire, Venom w/extra SC - 125

Fast Attack -
7 Reavers, 2xHL - 178

Heavy Support -
Ravager, 3xDL, NS, FF - 125
Cronos Parasite Engine, Spirit Vortex - 100

Total 1248

Swapped the DL on the Raiders to Disintegrator Cannons to help deal with Centurions, any other termies, figure the Wyches cover the slack in the AT department. Thoughts?
I'm thinking I'll give him first turn, so that he scouts his bikes up into charge range of my Wracks. Was going to use Haemy to give the reavers a pain token, but I think I'll leave them in reserve.

C&C appreciated, thanks for your time!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/11 17:32:30


-I dedicate these deaths to Odin Allfather, Spearshaker, One Eye.
Rock hard, ride free, and hold the heathen hammer high!
"Orkses is never beaten in battle; if we win, we win, if we die, we died fightin' so it doesn't count, and if we leg it, we always come back for anuvver go, see?"
God, I'd love to shunt the Hulk into the Eye of Terror and see what comes out. -Reiner
"Sons of the Last Breath"
"Host of Shattered Purity"
"Kabal of the Dying Sun, Cult of Marrow Excised, Coven of Lambent Hunger" 
   
Made in fr
Regular Dakkanaut




Hi,

The main thing i see is the Cronos which is not so usefull in your list i think.
A 2nd Ravager would probably be much better i think if youcan shave some points for it.
   
Made in us
Sneaky Lictor




Wherever they tell me

I agree on the move for a Cronos to a Ravager. I'm not sure how many points a beast pack runs you, but my friend has had quite a bit of success with them.


Tyranids 10000 points
Orks 3500 points
Raven Guard 3000 points
 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch





The Twilight Zone

Agree on dropping the chronos. Against T5 the chronos has laughable shooting, and a decent CC charge with those bikes will wipe it out before it can do anything. Your also meched up for the most part,. making handing out pain tokens problematic.

If your hamey is out on his own, he is an easy warlord kill. Drop a wrack and put him in with them. Alternatively, drop a kabbie and put the hamey here. FNP will help if their raider pops, and the liquifier helps for when bikes charge in. If you go this route, use the points saved from dropping the kabbie to get a second liquifier gun for the wracks(they need 2)

Reavers are OK, but T5 will negate a lot of their power. You can drop down to 6 as you already unlocked the heat lances you want.

Grav guns are all but worthless against DE. With the best armor save in your list being a 5+(if you drop the chronos) the guns only have a 1 in 3 chance of wounding any model you have. 1 in 6 if shooting at wracks or wytches! Against your skimmers they are short ranged(and with night shields easily kited) and only immobolize on a 6 if you fail your jink/flickerfield. If you see his centuarions have these, ignore them. Those bikes are insanely dangerous as they can multi charge your skimemrs, and with strong Hammer of wrath and krak grenades wrecking Av10 is easy. Poison is your best bet against bikes, with dissies being ok but not great.

Basically you need to focus shooting and prevent from being assaulted as a single assault phase could take out most of your army.


The most important rule of 40K-Page XVII of the 6th edition rulebook, the figure at the top right of the page. "Shake hands with your opponent and thank them for a good battle and fun experience." Then go out for a beer.
Shine bright like Iyanden  
   
Made in gb
Angered Reaver Arena Champion




Connah's Quay, North Wales

I understand why you are thinking about dissies, but they are really never worth in unless they are against T 4 2+ saves. They don't even kill much more then a Dark lance (3 shots, 2 hits, 1 wound, 4+ jink) while the dark lance is a serious threat to land speeders you should also expect or a rhino.

Swap heat lances to blasters, Heat lances are only ever worth it against AV 12 in melta range, against everything else the blaster is king. Wounding T5 on 2's is a big thing as well, also threatening the speeders better and having a longer threat range.

Drop a wrack to fit in the Haemonculus if you are set on taking wracks, your warlord has no place to go, Get an Acolyte. Drop the extra reaver, he isn't helping much and gives points for upgrades. I would suggest dropping the Chronus for the ravager (Strength 4 or 3, low number of attacks, not the best against T5 when they ALL have Krak grenades) but if you are set on using a pain engine then you should use a Talos with TL liquefier and take a webway portal maybe. That way you can control where his bikes go by making a 14 inch dead zone range on the turn you throw it (No one wants to be on the receiving end of a TL liquefier, not even bikes) and you can use him to chase bikes around or control movement all the while shooting the Splinter cannon.

Oh, and hoping the enemy makes a mistake (Moving into charge range) is a bad way of planning the game. Having the Haem in the open is a walking warlord point, don't do that. Bikes can get a Pain token easier then any unit in the army, just cut a unit down to 2 then when they turbo boast from reserve they get the Token. If you don't have the points for the Talos drop a wych squad, I feel like taking a wych squad is like hoping the enemy will make a mistake (letting them get near anything with HP and is important) and you only need 1 unit to create the threat range. I feel you would like the points better in the Talos keeping the bikes at bay by controlling there movement.

 
   
Made in ca
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe






My apologies for the messup; that unit of wracks is definitely only 9 strong, to fit the Haemy. So that effectively gives 'em 2 LG.

Regarding the Wych boats; I'm looking at replacing one with a Trueborn Gunboat w/SCs. Worthwhile exchange?
Ok valid argument vs Cronos, I didn't factor in the low S of his guns. I'm not sure he'll have enough Armour for the 2nd ravager to be worth it though. Dropping one Reaver to get a 2nd Ravager with NS.

I'll definitely keep my army at range, kiting with night shields ftw. And ALEXisAWESOME, I'm not planning my strategy around hoping he makes a mistake. What I meant by that is that if he DOES scout up, I'll capitalize. Add an "if" to the sentence. But thanks for the tip.

-I dedicate these deaths to Odin Allfather, Spearshaker, One Eye.
Rock hard, ride free, and hold the heathen hammer high!
"Orkses is never beaten in battle; if we win, we win, if we die, we died fightin' so it doesn't count, and if we leg it, we always come back for anuvver go, see?"
God, I'd love to shunt the Hulk into the Eye of Terror and see what comes out. -Reiner
"Sons of the Last Breath"
"Host of Shattered Purity"
"Kabal of the Dying Sun, Cult of Marrow Excised, Coven of Lambent Hunger" 
   
Made in gb
Angered Reaver Arena Champion




Connah's Quay, North Wales

Just because he is running White scars doesn't mean he is running all bikes, he will likely have some land speeders or preds to back him up, and you simply don't have the AV to handle that. Your AV is limited to your ravagers and your raiders if you take DL's. If he takes a pred then that's taking out a ravage a turn, so could a typhoon speeder. Be ready for that, don't just expect for an all bike army.

 
   
Made in ca
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe






Consider me educated. I'll keep the DL on the raiders, and focus-fire his army piece by piece.
I'm seeing a lot of talk about how necessary ravagers are, but at the same time people seem to believe they're entirely unreliable. Am I missing something?
And a further question; target priority. I got into 40K playing CSM so I've gotta change the way I approach this. Any tips?

-I dedicate these deaths to Odin Allfather, Spearshaker, One Eye.
Rock hard, ride free, and hold the heathen hammer high!
"Orkses is never beaten in battle; if we win, we win, if we die, we died fightin' so it doesn't count, and if we leg it, we always come back for anuvver go, see?"
God, I'd love to shunt the Hulk into the Eye of Terror and see what comes out. -Reiner
"Sons of the Last Breath"
"Host of Shattered Purity"
"Kabal of the Dying Sun, Cult of Marrow Excised, Coven of Lambent Hunger" 
   
Made in us
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Maryland

Yeah, nobody runs only bikes. Expect to see Speeders. Also, White Scars got scary in the new edition.

 Grey Templar wrote:

The Riptide can't be a giant death robot, its completely lacking a sword or massive chainsaw. All giant death robots have swords or massive chainsaws.
 
   
Made in gb
Angered Reaver Arena Champion




Connah's Quay, North Wales

Ravagers are necessary in the usual DE list being venom spam or raider spam. People take them because they are good for their points but I don't think they are necessary. For example in your list I think a Talos would do well because he will stop the bikes from getting close to your lines in assault. You can out range them, so a guard dog sounds like exactly what you need. He is unlikely to have more then 2 dakka preds tops and is likely to have 2 typhoon speeders. A Ravager takes out one of these a turn.

On priority take out things that can de mech you, then take out the troops. Yes their troops can de mech you, but I mean take out the Typhoons. Splinters handle bikes. And the reavers should do well with blasters. Things should go well!

 
   
Made in ca
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe






So... he fielded only bikes, and a unit of centurions. And he scout-moved the bikes right up. Playing Relic.
3xCenturion w/grav cannons, one missile launcher
2x 5 troop bikes, some grav guns
~5x elite bikes (command squad with apothecary FNP?) w/ Khan, Chapter Master w/that fancy storm shield, 2+armour, and a metric buttload of attacks.

I tabled him turn six, but damn did that chapter master tank a lot of fire.

I wiped his troops early, and then it was just a game of keep-away. It was closer than I would have liked; at the end all I had was the trueborn & their venom, the wyches & venom, one warrior squad & raider. My plan of running & gunning didn't work, 'cause he could more than keep up with me.

-I dedicate these deaths to Odin Allfather, Spearshaker, One Eye.
Rock hard, ride free, and hold the heathen hammer high!
"Orkses is never beaten in battle; if we win, we win, if we die, we died fightin' so it doesn't count, and if we leg it, we always come back for anuvver go, see?"
God, I'd love to shunt the Hulk into the Eye of Terror and see what comes out. -Reiner
"Sons of the Last Breath"
"Host of Shattered Purity"
"Kabal of the Dying Sun, Cult of Marrow Excised, Coven of Lambent Hunger" 
   
 
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