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Hey everyone,
Even though i am rarely in this area of Dakka Dakka, i find myself here today pondering the question should i continue playing fantasy, or better put, should i keep my brettonian?
I started playing Brettonian about 10 years back. I was starry eyed at the age of about 10 and looking to get into Fantasy, after my couple years of playing 40k. I walked around my local GW and was looking for an army that resembled historic hard hitting heavy infantry. At the age of ten, i just looked at the way the models looked and my GW store owner wasnt particularly helpful, just waiting for me to buy something... i came a cross a box with human infantry, with halberds and large broad shields, i loved the look and thought it was what i was looking for, when in reality i was holding a box of peasants, that are used as mainly cannon fodder.
So i began my journey into the brettonian codex after buying a good amount of models and i found myself needing more knights on horse back... not exactly what i wanted haha, but they ended up growing on me... Over the years i have built up a sizeable force of i think like 8,000 points. when i first started playing i found myself being crushed by every other army... as expected... but as i got better i began to win most of my games, placing in tournaments and such. But winning games never mattered to me as long as each game was fun ! I even put a couple touches of Monty python stuff in ( IE: my chimera for lore of beast is a rabbit on a huge base with dead knights on the base...)
When i ran into the latest edition i found myself not enjoying games as much as the game geared toward using huge blocks of infantry and not to mention it almost seems every unit i run into is stubborn, steadfast, or fearless. Its hard to have a good time when i have to play my bretts one way in the hope i dont get wiped off the board...
So i havent played my Bretts in about a year or more now and im juggling the idea of selling them or keeping them in the hope of a new codex that will save the army, maybe add new units like knights on foot etc.
A buddy of mine is thinking about getting into fantasy as Vampire counts, so this has some influence on my decision and his decision since we play against each other so often. I have also considered maybe picking up different armies such as...
a conquistador themed empire army ( against lizard men )
a nurgle daemon army ( ive always liked the daemon monsters, beast, and infantry and there look )
a beastmen army ( even though i really dont like the look of some models, mainly becuase GW likes to over do models when it come to muscles, so this will limit my play.. )
So honestly i just dont know at the moment... and i feel i might need to look into a a more realistic game medieval game or something.
I have also gotten tired of the cheesy tactics that can be used even though they make no sense.. IE:
Oger kingdoms vs brettonians
oger kingdoms release a hound that will place itself right in front of my block of knights and after i charge my knights units flanks are wide open to a charge...
or when my warbred war horses charge two inches or are stopped and stuck in combat with tiny goblins who kill the now strength 3 knights one per turn...
i just dont get it...
well im going to stop talking now but i may add more later
thanks for reading fellas, comment please!
Tony A

Those strategies are kind of what make WHFB what it is. And you need to put the models in fluff terms. That ogre sabertusk is really a sabertusk. Imagine sitting on your horse and you see this:


It's not just a single model. It's a really big predatory cat. I've been to the La Brea tar pits. They're scary animals even 10,000 years later.

And those goblins aren't just 30 little guys, but hundreds. All the fluff in the game talks about spells that can only ever hit 15 or so models killing thousands. So you need to up the scales. You're not charging with 20 knights you're charging with 150 and you're not hitting the goth lollipop guild, you're hitting a (knee-high) wall of green.

Anyway, play what is fun. If it's not fun, don't play it. Sounds like you enjoy theme but also like to win. If your friend is going VC it's hard to think of a better counter than Empire, but it's an awful lot like Bretonnian IMHO. I would go the complete opposite way.

Keep the models, join the Kings of War players on here. It's a better game than Warhammer, the undead range is superior to GW's (90% of people on here agree, rough estimate from posts given), and that'll help your friend. Bretonians will work well for Basileans in KoW or Kingdoms of Men as well, so you have two possible armies to use with the single army you have already. The rules are more solid and you keep all models in a unit on the table until the entire unit breaks. Check out the free rules on www.manticgames.com

I don't think you'll be sorry, and feel free to PM me with any questions. I'm sure the other guys on here who switched from WHFB to KoW will be glad to help convince you too.

It's pretty tacky to come to a forum specifically on WHFB and advertise another game. The forums will quickly lose their value if everyone starts trying to convince people to play something else. It seems like you read the subject of the thread and that's it.

Yes, the world has plenty of games. Poker is fun. But this is the general discussion subforum of WHFB.

I've played WHFB for 12 years and the OP mentioned things that he was starting to dislike about WHFB and wondering if he should continue. I was in the same boat, actually, after a time. I offered him a game that is very similar, as he mentioned he was looking into potential other games. So yes, I did read it and tossed out an alternative.

If you don't enjoy something, drop it. If costs are negligible to maintain it, and friends want to get into it, hold on and see how that goes. If it still just doesn't work out, rid yourself of it and look for more enjoyable things to do.

If it isn't fun, stop playing it.

Unless you are a masochist who gets off on not fun stuff.
In which case, try getting into politics as it will be more fulfilling.

I play HE in fantasy. I don't win (haven't in the last year and a bit) much, and I've only recently got to a draw - but it's still fun. When it stops being fun, I will stop playing it and the army will go into storage, get palmed off on someone else, or go into the skip and another game will replace it.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I've played WHFB for 12 years and the OP mentioned things that he was starting to dislike about WHFB and wondering if he should continue.

This is what he said.

or better put, should i keep my brettonian?

We can make this a forum on the virtues of smoking crack cocaine or adventuring in scenic Croatia, but I'm guessing those past-times have separate forums and websites. This isn't a mantic games subforum. They have their own forums and their own website and I'm pretty positive if you start posting, "hey, you shouldn't play these games, you should play WHFB," people would not appreciate it either and it would very certainly be removed.

And while this isn't a GW website, I don't even like seeing 40K posts here. Because this isn't a 40K forum.

DukeRustfield wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I've played WHFB for 12 years and the OP mentioned things that he was starting to dislike about WHFB and wondering if he should continue.

This is what he said.

or better put, should i keep my brettonian?

We can make this a forum on the virtues of smoking crack cocaine or adventuring in scenic Croatia, but I'm guessing those past-times have separate forums and websites. This isn't a mantic games subforum. They have their own forums and their own website and I'm pretty positive if you start posting, "hey, you shouldn't play these games, you should play WHFB," people would not appreciate it either and it would very certainly be removed.

And while this isn't a GW website, I don't even like seeing 40K posts here. Because this isn't a 40K forum.

Cute, you think it's your thread. I think you left out this part that he wrote too:

When i ran into the latest edition i found myself not enjoying games as much as the game geared toward using huge blocks of infantry and not to mention it almost seems every unit i run into is stubborn, steadfast, or fearless. Its hard to have a good time when i have to play my bretts one way in the hope i dont get wiped off the board...
So i havent played my Bretts in about a year or more now and im juggling the idea of selling them or keeping them in the hope of a new codex that will save the army, maybe add new units like knights on foot etc.

So honestly i just dont know at the moment... and i feel i might need to look into a a more realistic game medieval game or something.
I have also gotten tired of the cheesy tactics that can be used even though they make no sense..

And as for making posts about WHFB in the Mantic forum, I direct you to this thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/529015.page
You don't see the Mantic supporters up in arms about it, and it's asking about the advantages of Warhammer over KoW. Not the other way around. Does it end up putting KoW in a better spot? Yes. But it directly asks about the advantages of WHFB over KoW first. I'm not posting here any further, as I don't want to get this dude's thread locked or cause warnings or anything of the sort. If people came into the KoW thread and talked about possibly leaving it for another game, I'm sure nobody there would throw a fit. We're all here to offer suggestions, and his post suggests his unhappiness in certain respects to the game as it stands and his potential desire to try other games. I gave him an option that is as close to WHFB as I can think of. Your thread suggestions of cocaine and Croatia are...what? Comparing apples and poodles? If nobody suggested discussion of different games in each thread, everything would grow stagnant. YMMV, but I don't see anybody else throwing a hissy fit over discussions of games other than the ones directly labeled in the title of the thread.

OP, if you were only musing about the idea of trying other games, and maybe venting a bit, no pressure at all. I promise I won't hijack your thread further on the subject. But it sounded from your post this might be up your alley based on what troubles you about WHFB. If I'm wrong, please disregard and happy gaming.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Keep the models, join the Kings of War players on here. It's a better game than Warhammer, the undead range is superior to GW's (90% of people on here agree, rough estimate from posts given), and that'll help your friend. Bretonians will work well for Basileans in KoW or Kingdoms of Men as well, so you have two possible armies to use with the single army you have already. The rules are more solid and you keep all models in a unit on the table until the entire unit breaks. Check out the free rules on www.manticgames.com

I don't think you'll be sorry, and feel free to PM me with any questions. I'm sure the other guys on here who switched from WHFB to KoW will be glad to help convince you too.

I'm with you man.

OP, there just models, you can use them in other game systems. If you aren't feeling it any more, like other pointed there are other sub-forum were will gladly help you find a game that will work for you. So people on this sub-forum won't have to worry about losing yet any other players, becouse a none GW fanstry game was offered as a way to use your models.

I don't think this is my thread. Or my forum. Or my website. I took the herculean effort, however, of seeing which thread, forum and website it is.

DukeRustfield wrote:
I don't think this is my thread. Or my forum. Or my website. I took the herculean effort, however, of seeing which thread, forum and website it is.

So you got the fact the OP is thinking about play other fantasy game. Good, now why be a ass to someone trying to help the OP, even if it not your game . It doesn't help you to bring other into GW fantasy game.

No, the fact is he asked if he should keep his Bretonnians and went over other races he's considering and someone decided that's a great opportunity to stump for some entirely other game.

We can follow each other around on the forums and any time you post anything on 40K I can say, yeah, but do you play ice hockey? And tell you the virtues of ice hockey. But this isn't an ice hockey forum.

This forum is called:
WHFB General Discussion and Background

It's right there in the title. If you're not posting about that, it's likely off-topic.

OP just go to the Mantic sub-forum and feel free to ask what you want. Sadly doesn't seem you can here and have a open talk about it if you should stay with GW, as only GW fantasy allowed here, I guess.

P.S. They might even point out some other system to look at.

This thread is getting dragged down in an incredibly stupid way. If you see a problem, report it. If you aren't a mod, then don't act like you are one and just move along.

To slip back into Topic, I have been having a lot of fun in Fantasy 8th edition, and with Bretonnians as well.

What I like about Bretonnia, is that the army is very finess oriented, out Knight Lances have a few ranks, and are thus able to deny steadfast on small units, and the added combat resolution means that our Knights are very capable of handeling enemy elite units and breaking them, while we have a rough time with big hordes due to steadfast and losing steam.

What I enjoy about winning with Bretonnia is that I feel like I have to play very tactically to win. This means winning the Chaff Battle (Ogre Sabre Tusks cannot redirect you when they are full of arrows).

- Mounted Yeomen and Peasant Arhcers can double flee, redirect, and shoot enemy chaff with bow fire. Peasant Archers also come with free fences which will catch a cannonball (useful for protecting trebuchets)
- a deep block of 35-50 Men at Arms with the Prayer Icon can hold up most enemy combat blocks for several turns allowing Knights to eliminate enemy elite units (like Mournfang) before moving into position. They Men at Arms may even be deep enough to deny steadfast to the enemy.
- Pegasus Knights are prodigal warmachine hunters, and add a ton of combat resolution by rear or flank charging along with another unit in the front
- Trebuchets can soften up big blocks of infantry to allow your Men at Arms to hold them, and your Knights to break them in a flank charge.
- and Knights. They are still important, and crucial to victory, but they are more of a scalple then a hammer. They won't defeat a big combat block until it is weakend, but they are still great at killing enemy elites on the charge- especially in multi charges. They work in tandem with the rest of the army to pick the enemy apart, then engage their steadfast hordes when they are surrounded and softened up.

Thats the intresting thing about Bretonnia, in 8th edition we are really rewarded for playing a Balanced list. Dirt cheap peasants have important roles to play to control the battle field, our Knights are devestating on the charge and can waste enemy elite and support units, Pegasus Knights scythe through enemy warmachines and backfield support units, our characters add punch to our Lances allowing them to smash the enemy. Basically what it comes down to is Bretonnia isn't Warirors of Chaos, we cannot mindlessly push our super Demon Princes and Nurgle Warrior Blocks forward and effortlessly win. We need to control the battlefield with cheap peasants and redirectors, and use the excellent speed of our Knights to set up the right charges at the right times.

By no means is Bretonnia as easy to play as other armies, but when the whole list works together they are a blast to play, and can keep up with a lot of the newer armybooks as well.

 Necroshea wrote:
This thread is getting dragged down in an incredibly stupid way. If you see a problem, report it. If you aren't a mod, then don't act like you are one and just move along.

THIS IS NON GW WFB TALK AND IS NOT ALLOWED HERE.

But people ask about non GW models all the time on this board.

Yes. Non-GW models for WHFB, per this forum's title. They don't ask the best strategy to beat the best properties in Monopoly. When people posted WHFB rumors they got jumped on by mods because there's a forum for it.

Thanks
My friends and I are looking into other games, but After reading akaean post im leaning to staying as well I think if I play with my list a bit more and start paying a few pick up games again, and ill see if I can start living up the finess style of game play. You'll probably be seeing further posts by me in the tactics area!
Thanks
Tony A