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The question is "With the new C:SM, what units do you think are capable of making a BA army better, as allies"


HQ
1 - Jump pack captians -> artificer armor/weapon of choice/SS or ES
* Finally a IC that can travel with assault troops and face off against MC's and other beatstick characters. We currently do not have any 3+ invuln JP characters. I think taking this + a cheap troop is a decent buy for anyone wanting to go heavy assault squads.

2- Tigger - 160 points for the best utility psyker in the game (our ML-2 libbys cost us 150). Good pick if you run a hybrid infantry list with some devestators/tactical etc.

3 - IH Bike captains -> a upgrade to the old blood rodeo build that has used to be seen.

Elite
Nothing to really offer here, our stern are just a cheap when you factor combi weapons. Our VV are more expensive but have the better Heroic Intervention, furiosos and ironclads are comparable at many levels.

The only thing of note are Legion of the dammed and Cent assault squads. The Legion is essentially sternguard with only 1 type of ammo and a 3+ invuln save... but die just as easy as stern to small arms fire. Cents... interesting but require additional investment to work (LR)

Troop

4 - Scouts - cheaper then ours and a go-to choice if you want to take other parts of the codex on the cheap. Sgt telion is a amazing upgrade if you want UM allies (such as tigger-scouts-telion).

5 - tacts - cheaper then ours, nothing special save grav

6 - Crusader squad - very interesting potential if you want to try a Black/Red tide army.

Fast Attack

7 - Bike squads -> if taking a bike captian these can bring back the old blood rodeo now with more scoring.

8 - Storm talon -> good companion to the storm raven, poor alone however imo.

Heavy

As for the tanks, I believe they are a little cheaper then ours, and if going IH tactics a little more survivable... however ours are *fast* so its a notable tradeoff. Also our SR's are a but better with ap1 missles.

9 - Thunder Fury Cannon - with barrage these are a amazing buy for the points, good way to soften up targets and control movement.

10 - Cent Devestators - fit better with a mobile (JP/bike) army then static devestators.

11 - Hunter/stalker - the "go to" AA in the new codex. Has a place if running a armor list, but otherwise I think Storm raven/talon is a more versitile AA buy.



Potential buys for BA

On the cheap - beatstick
Captian - JP - Arty armor - fist - ES
Scouts - camo - sniper (5)

Blood Rodeo 2.0
Captian bike - pf - ss
Bike troop - grav/grav - MM (8+ AB) x1-2
Thunder Fury Cannon

Buff bot
Tigger
Scouts - Telion - Camo - Sniper
Thunder Fury Cannon

The 'problem' is that I see no reason to take anything from the Blood Angels.

I'm making an Black Hands list with Mephiston, a fragnought, some ASM in a razorback, and a fast Vindicator.

I know the feel.

That is kind of the issue I run into as well when trying to add something to the list. It always comes down to Rescularch, Mephiston, Corbulo, Combi-weapon sternguard, terminators, Assault troops, deathcompany, attackbikes, storm ravens and... well there is a few



*black hands as in allies to IH?

The issue is that there is no reason to take a BA main force. Yeah, I meant Iron hands. I'm loopy.

Looking at the codex the only real reason to go BA main is if you want priest/corbulo + stern/termiantor/SG etc.

2x furioso woks fine
2x Assault troops work fine
FA - 2x baal preds work fine (CSM has attack bikes)
HS - 2x HS works... they have everything else

But the question stands, as Allies how would you use them to better BA.

You could bring quite a bit of BA to a C:SM backbone and still have the list feel very BA.

You can bring the likes of Mephiston, BA Librarian, Reclusiarch, Assault Marines as Troops, Multiple DC with Astorath, Sanguinary Guard as troops with Dante(I know he is bad), Corbulo, up to three priests, a Furioso, Baal Preds, Fast Vindicators, a Better Storm Raven.

You could bring quite a bit of BA over a SM backbone and use the SM to plug the gaps. Granted you can't double up on some of the Elites you'd like to, but you can still make the army feel BA and get some use out of your special units.

I think fielding C:SM with BA allies is going to be the stronger and more effective approach until BA get their new Dex. Just call them Red Marines and give them the Iron Hands Chapter Tactics, or White Scars, etc depending on need.

That's my plan. Although I might mention that the Iron Hand Stormraven might be better than the BA Stormraven.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm just curious. What do people think the odds are of BA getting access to Centurions? Or maybe I should get one squad anyway because I can always ally them back in.

Martel732 wrote:
That's my plan. Although I might mention that the Iron Hand Stormraven might be better than the BA Stormraven.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm just curious. What do people think the odds are of BA getting access to Centurions? Or maybe I should get one squad anyway because I can always ally them back in.

Iron Hands SR is certainly more durable, but not lacks the Firepower of the BA Raven. The BA Raven will hit harder and can keep up the assault longer if it survives, the IH Raven is simply harder to strip HP away.

I would bet BA will get Centurions as they have been given to so many Chapters and Successors with the C:SM book already.

The Bloodstrike missiles are only AP 1 vs AP 2. But with STR 8 profile, these missile don't even get to roll penetration results that often. In fact, STR 8 missiles are one of the great failings of the Stormraven as a weapon platform. I'll take the IWND any day of week, as Ravens usually die from being HPed out, not exploding.

Martel732 wrote:
The Bloodstrike missiles are only AP 1 vs AP 2. But with STR 8 profile, these missile don't even get to roll penetration results that often. In fact, STR 8 missiles are one of the great failings of the Stormraven as a weapon platform. I'll take the IWND any day of week, as Ravens usually die from being HPed out, not exploding.

Actually when comparing S8AP1 vs S9AP2 they have identical chances of destroying AV12. The S9AP2 does better vs AV13/14 while the S8AP1 does better vs AV11/10. Accross all the S9 does average slightly more HP damage on a shot for shot basis.

Vs the S8AP2 Missile of the IH Raven the Bloodstrike missiles are far superior at damaging armor. 50% better at destroying AV with the same chances for HP removal actually.

You can just use allied C:SM units to fill in for the units you'd have to pay more for in BA. So you could take a ML2 Libby, 2x Tactical Squads, Bikes and a Predator or something else that catches your fancy. That said, I agree with the sentiment that BA as a main army doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you're gonna take C:SM too anyway.

I dont think BA will get Cents, it seems to the a very specific infantry role that they will only get... unless we get... FLYING CENTS OF DOOOOM!

Looks like I am going IH bike/flier force with some BA assault troops and mephiston backup :/