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Hey all ,


So i'm sure this has come up dozens of times, but it's a bit new for me. I got back into 40k about 6 months ago after a long hiatus (last time i played was 3rd ed, with the combined Dark angels / Blood angels codex).

I always liked Dark Angels, but even more i liked the idea of the Fallen. What drew me to the fallen was i always had this impression that instead of being mutated slavering prideful monsters, they were rebelling against the emperor more for reasons of "feth you, you don't own us.", and for some reason that just resonated as being really, really cool.

So... that said... If i were to do a fallen army, how do folks think it should best be approached. I have a couple ideas... and conundrums.


So obviously the tech level of the fallen isn't quite SOTA with, say, the latest DA book or even space marine book. For "cool" factor i'll probably make heavy use of a lot of dark angel robed models, though technically i know the armor would be a much earlier version. In that vein, the dark vengeance and DA upgrade sprues will help lend the feel i'm looking for.

The question really comes from rules and araments.


And which would be the best way to run with the rules - use the Dark Angels book, or use the Chaos space marines codex ?

And what would the tech level be ? As in, i doubt the fallen are going to be be-boppin' around in storm ravens, etc.


Any suggestions or hints or ideas really appreciated.

The fallen are definitely awesome.
Army wise, whilst its written in background they typically appear alone and more than say, 3 is considered some gathering of the storm. However, an army of them could be good. If you wanted to do an army based off of fallen, you could have Cypher, the fallen angel, leading a chaos army made up of cultists and such. Most of Cyphers background has him going around planets and starting up revolutions, only to disappear as imperial retaliation arrives...

So for that you could have Cypher as a lord/dark apostle, have some chosen to be more Fallen etc.
Or you can do an army of them of course, I've just always wanted to do a cypher revolution

Have you read the alternative Dornian heresy set in a parallel reality where the emperor didn't chastise the word bearers and the council of nikea went magnus' way? It ment erebus and magnus were able to save horus from choas and the dark gods corrupted dorn instead.
In this parrallel reality cypher murders luther and turns the dark angels to choas. Although they are unaligned. Therefore the fallen are in legion strength.
You could base your army on the cypher and his force of that reality being sucked into a warp storm and being brought out into the traditional 40k universe. Therefore using the DA codex. (Although as you say obviously not using the most recent tech).

blood lance wrote:
The fallen are definitely awesome.
Army wise, whilst its written in background they typically appear alone and more than say, 3 is considered some gathering of the storm. However, an army of them could be good. If you wanted to do an army based off of fallen, you could have Cypher, the fallen angel, leading a chaos army made up of cultists and such. Most of Cyphers background has him going around planets and starting up revolutions, only to disappear as imperial retaliation arrives...

So for that you could have Cypher as a lord/dark apostle, have some chosen to be more Fallen etc.
Or you can do an army of them of course, I've just always wanted to do a cypher revolution

Ah, i see... i thought there were bands of them (read that: like some that would be juuuuust about the size of a 2k or so army), i didn't realize it was so small / so rare. My fluff access to the fallen is a bit limited.

And yes, Cypher is fething awesome.

That is definitely one direction i could go in. Use Chaos Space marine rules, with DA models, and get some cultists in there too to round things out... which then makes Dark Vengeance all the more attractive. LOL !


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Have you read the alternative Dornian heresy set in a parallel reality where the emperor didn't chastise the word bearers and the council of nikea went magnus' way? It ment erebus and magnus were able to save horus from choas and the dark gods corrupted dorn instead.
In this parrallel reality cypher murders luther and turns the dark angels to choas. Although they are unaligned. Therefore the fallen are in legion strength.
You could base your army on the cypher and his force of that reality being sucked into a warp storm and being brought out into the traditional 40k universe. Therefore using the DA codex. (Although as you say obviously not using the most recent tech).

I have not heard of this fluff-line, but it sounds amazingly cool. Thanks for sharing it. A corrupted Dorn would be really interesting to think of in terms of what it would do the universal canon.



Lots of options with this little project. Thankfully it's mostly to be played with friends, so i'm sure they'll be cool with whatever i decide to do, as long as its consistent. The cultist idea is pretty awesome though...





For the fluff-minded out there... is it possible for a chapter (or portion) to turn from the emperor without also turning to Chaos ? I.e. - literally rebel because "feth you, you don't own us, corpse god", but also avoid being turned into a tentacled slave to the four chaos gods ?

Yep - dornian heresy again... the ultamarines rebelled against the imperium and set up their own empire whilst not turning to chaos. Whilst the dornian heresy universes imperium is just as religiously fanatical and in decline, the ultamarine empire doesnt follow religious dogma and appreciates technological advances, even incorporating tau weaponary into their forces.

Also in the traditional reality during the badab war FOUR space marine chapters rebelled against the imperium. The Astal claws, the mantis warriors, the executioners and the lamenters. In the end the astral claws turned to chaos becoming the red corsairs, but the others didnt.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Yep - dornian heresy again... the ultamarines rebelled against the imperium and set up their own empire whilst not turning to chaos. Whilst the dornian heresy universes imperium is just as religiously fanatical and in decline, the ultamarine empire doesnt follow religious dogma and appreciates technological advances, even incorporating tau weaponary into their forces.

Also in the traditional reality during the badab war FOUR space marine chapters rebelled against the imperium. The Astal claws, the mantis warriors, the executioners and the lamenters. In the end the astral claws turned to chaos becoming the red corsairs, but the others didnt.

This is great info, and possibly something i could swing to be a little more in line with what i want to do and "canon" so to speak.

A buddy told me about the mantis warriors and carcharadons a little bit, but i never got around to borrowing the book.

So in this vein, i could very easily say there was successor chapter of the Dark Angels that at some point were like "You know what, the fallen were right!".

I could reasonably explain them as using Astartes (i.e. - codex space marines) rules if they were a recently rebelling chapter. Alternatively i could use codex: DA, and use the same kind of back story. Or i could do the samesuch, and use codex chaos space marines, just using DA models as counts as chaos space marines, and sprinkle in cultists, etc. I kind of want to either steer clear of mutations and slavering insanity as much as possible, as i find the idea of a space marine chapter rebelling for non-chaos corruption related reasons much more interesting than "OMG, CHAOS made me do it."

Thanks for the great info, this really has me thinking now. I think my next step is probably to get codex DA and CSM, and see what fits the most with the overall theme (already have space marines).

Honestly, The Fallen aren't really an "army" as it were. They tend to hide out in random places in the galaxy, not drawing attention to themselves. I honestly feel like one of the better ways to do a "Fallen" army would actually be to do Imperial Guard with Colonel Iron Hand Straken as a Fallen Dark Angel who has risen to power and taken command of a traitor army. If you wanted to be really subtle with it, they might not know they're traitors, or might have just rebelled without turning to Chaos. An undersupplied Guard army full of dilapidated vehicles, scavenged equipment, and troops who think they're not worshipping the Chaos gods under the leadership of a Fallen Dark Angel is a lot more interesting to me than a bunch of Dark Angels painted black.

I like Brother's reasoning for a Fallen army, though if you liked the playstyle, I think you could also make a Fallen army in the Style of Dark Vengeance's forces, with a single higher ranking fallen with a squad or two of "chosen" following him, with the rest being cultists and the like. I personally wouldn't do it with the figures from Dark Vengeance, as I would want my Fallen to not be as mutated and chaos-adorned. I would use normal Space Marines converted to carry similar wargear.

The gist is that the best way to represent Fallen acting around the galaxy would be a "Lord" and some chosen followers (maybe his original squad in the Heresy?), with non-Space Marine troops filling out the rest of the force. Fallen are not that incredibly common, especially so long after the Heresy.

 Brother SRM wrote:
Honestly, The Fallen aren't really an "army" as it were. They tend to hide out in random places in the galaxy, not drawing attention to themselves. I honestly feel like one of the better ways to do a "Fallen" army would actually be to do Imperial Guard with Colonel Iron Hand Straken as a Fallen Dark Angel who has risen to power and taken command of a traitor army. If you wanted to be really subtle with it, they might not know they're traitors, or might have just rebelled without turning to Chaos. An undersupplied Guard army full of dilapidated vehicles, scavenged equipment, and troops who think they're not worshipping the Chaos gods under the leadership of a Fallen Dark Angel is a lot more interesting to me than a bunch of Dark Angels painted black.

Understandable, but i don't really like guard, frankly. Traitor guard are interesting, but on the whole, I don't want to do a guard army.

The rest of what you describe is pretty much what i want to do, just supplant guard with marines. Maybe it's even a member of the fallen who's managed to influence a successor chapter.

And a rebelling marine chapter that *isn't* chaos, to me, is the most interesting, which is kind of where the info that Poly Ranger has given me is leading me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I like Brother's reasoning for a Fallen army, though if you liked the playstyle, I think you could also make a Fallen army in the Style of Dark Vengeance's forces, with a single higher ranking fallen with a squad or two of "chosen" following him, with the rest being cultists and the like. I personally wouldn't do it with the figures from Dark Vengeance, as I would want my Fallen to not be as mutated and chaos-adorned. I would use normal Space Marines converted to carry similar wargear.

The gist is that the best way to represent Fallen acting around the galaxy would be a "Lord" and some chosen followers (maybe his original squad in the Heresy?), with non-Space Marine troops filling out the rest of the force. Fallen are not that incredibly common, especially so long after the Heresy.

Yeah, see that's the conundrum. Dark Vengeance cultists is easy on the pocket book, but you're right... i don't want to go with the Chaos vector - more just rebels, so i'm currently steering away from that angle, and more towards a rebelling SM chapter.

I'm kinda vacillating between a marine chapter that's been influenced by a Fallen member, or a successor of the Dark angels themselves (so in essence, Codex Spehs Mureens, or Codex Dark Angels). This way i get to play with all the new tech hotness too.


I like your idea of the "lord and his squad" - This could be the "chapter master" and his "captains" that have swayed a chapter via guile and subterfuge.... which will also make it make sense for it not to be an army of all Fallen, as well.

-- Haight

Does it really matter that the Fallen is not really an army?

How many times have the Mighty, All Powerfull Ultramarines hide and cower while the battle goes on? Fluff does not translate to game play other wise, anyone who played Ultramarines wouldn't have their minis hiding and cowering in vehicles in 5th edition until last turn.

So what if Fallen is usually one man army? This is where the RULE OF COOL come in. Just like how alot of fluff is not used while people play their games, the same can be said for the Fallen. Hell an entire chapter of them can be fielded IN THE NAME OF FUN.

That being said, for the OP, what rule book do you like the best? Mini wise you will be using DA minis. So for codex wise, do you like the CSM or DA better? What is more to your taste when you play?

Pick a codex which is the most FUN for you. Don't try and pick a codex for which is more fluffy, otherwise, you will never ever be able to field a real Fallen army if you are going Fluff wise.

So go with Rule of Cool, and what is fun for you to play. I would say use the DA codex, for Fallen that haven't become possessed, and use the CSM for Fallen that have become possessed.

No probs. I love all that fluff. The dornian heresy is free online pdf and well worth a read. The only thing i dislike about it is my beloved blood angels are champions of nurgle. There are all sorts of 40k wikis that will explain the badab war too.

Poly Ranger wrote:
No probs. I love all that fluff. The dornian heresy is free online pdf and well worth a read. The only thing i dislike about it is my beloved blood angels are champions of nurgle. There are all sorts of 40k wikis that will explain the badab war too.

Would you happen to have a link for the dornian heresy by any chance ?

@Davor - thanks for the encouragement bud! Yah, i am kind of leaning towards Space Marines at the moment, but I haven't ruled out either Dark Angels or Chaos SM yet either. Probably have to get some quality time with the latter two books.

Sorry - on my phone and dont know how to copy and paste.
Just google search it, shouldnt be hidden away.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/122844647/The-Dornian-Heresy

Here it is.

You could always have a Badab-setting army led by some Fallen. Then not only can you have the Commander and the elite squads be your Fallen, you also would get the open chance to play with some other paintjobs together in one Marine-pure army, with a really thematic reason for all the variation therein. And it would still fit with your liking the feel of Space Marines "throwing off the shackles of the Imperium".

I am a big fan of having the fluff drive the themes of my army. I would normally see no reason not to play a purely Fallen army, but the main downfall for me personally would be that it'd be hard to not have it look quite a bit like a Dark Angels army. But there's a lot of ways around that particular problem.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

VensersRevenge wrote:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/122844647/The-Dornian-Heresy

Here it is.

Any way to get it without having to subscribe (and pay) to a file sharing site?

 AegisGrimm wrote:

VensersRevenge wrote:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/122844647/The-Dornian-Heresy

Here it is.

Any way to get it without having to subscribe (and pay) to a file sharing site?

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/heresy/thedornianheresy.pdf

If we go by Black Library numbers, average SM legion was about hundred thousand marines. So if about half of the DA become Fallen, it means there were roughly 50 000 of them! Sure, many have died by now, but there still must be thousands if not tens of thousands left. Your average marine army on the other hand has few dozen marines. Fallen do not move in large groups, but few dozen is a small group considering that there are thousands of them altogether. So yes, fully fallen 40K army is perfectly plausible.