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Looking to get back into 40k and so far I've read a lot about Vanilla SM. I'm trying to decide between them and Eldar. I use to play Vanilla SM and have read up on their new book already but I haven't gotten around to checking out my 2nd choice, Eldar, yet. I really love the way the models look and I much prefer painting Eldar models than SM ~_~

So my questions are:
1) What do Eldar play like now? Shooty spam long range? Loads of firepower like GK was in 5e? Waves of bodies? Small elite army? Lots of AP2 S7 spam like IG vet guard?
2) What are their "top units"/core units that most competitive Eldar lists take? (I'm wanting to start collecting now, but I'll do so slowly. I don't want to make the mistake of buying "not as competitive" stuff like I did way back when I played IG and bought some Ogryns )
3) Sample list of a competitive 1500 Eldar only list please?

If its not too much trouble. But I'd really like my 1st and 2nd question thoroughly answered please. I don't mind reading a wall of text ;P
Thanks

Ok welcome to Eldar in all of its fun I can say with a compleatly biased opinion that Eldar are the best. They have literally the coolest models and are astoundingly effective. To answer your questions

1) yes yes and yes. It's a matter how you want to play. If you want gunline you can or get in their face you can. They function best in mid to short range shooting. You can achieve almost everything with Eldar but you have a codex that has pretty much all options open as good buys (sadly not banshees whih were one of my all time favorites).

2. As far as top units are concerned all wave serpents are amazing. The TL scatter laser makes all other shots TL including the shield and the SCannon. Guardians inside can provide volume of fire to take out just about any target. Wraithguard provide elite high strength ap2 firepower and conviently fit in a WS. Warp spiders are ultra fast and blast down almost everything. Jetbike a provide the ultimate menoverability while also hitting hard enough to make opponents take note. Fire dragons are a unt that has all meltaguns again ALL MELTAGUNS. All the flyers we have are honestly the best in the game either forge world or just the regular one (which can literally remove one flyer a turn regularly). Basically every unit In the codex is amazing at winning or tableing an opponent.

3) ok as for lists you can't really go wrong with anything in the codex really but I ran this list and tabled my opponent it may not be the best but got the job done:

Farseer mantle of laughing god, jetbike, singing spear
Spirit seer

Wraithguard x5 (spirit seer here)
Wave serpent TL scatter laser, SCannon, holofields

Wraithguard x5 D-scythe
Wave serpent TL scatter laser, SCannon, holofields

Guardians x 10
Wave serpent TL scatter laser, SCannon, holofields

Guardians x10
Wave serpent TL scatter laser, SCannon, holofields

Warp spiders x6

I promise that this list won't make you friends but if you want to win it will crush almos all non terniment lists. Basically you have mass shooting supported by one WG unit that wih the seer can remove one target while crushing hordes. BTW I had to apologize to my opponent after playing because it really wasn't a fair fight. I honestly felt that I brought a nuke to an armewreatlong match.

So I hope this helps you I honestly love Eldar and think they are they best. By have the amazing aesthetic wih the vehicles and I play ulthwe and love the guardian heavy setup even before the new codex that made them wonderfully effective on the feild.

As far as starting is concerned the battle force GW sells is a great buy it has guardians dire avengers a viper (which is great but I didint mention) and a wave serpent. Add another serpent and more guardians and fill wih your own personal favorites. Oh and get a farseer and jetbike a and convert your own jetbike farseer.

Ps haven't edited this message yet and won't untill I get home. Am using my iPhone so pardon any errors with autocorrect, or spelling in general.

Well, here is a sample list I played vs Tau almost tabling it:

Autarch w/ jetbike

2x 5 Dire Avengers
Serpents w/ holofield, scatterlaser, shuricannon

2x 5 Fire Dragons
Serpents w/ holofield, scatterlaser, shuricannon

3 Warwalkers w/ dual scatterlasers.

Okay, let's start with the fact that Eldar is top tier now and pretty much made for eating Marines alive. I would't say that they are best army and I've only had a quick look at the new SM 'dex, but Eldars have an answer to pretty much everything.

You see, there are many competitive builds for Eldar. Such as Wave Serpent spam, Iyanden-there's Wraitharmy, Aspect Warrior-heavy etc.

To build an Eldar list, start by choosing an Elite/ HS/FA unit that fits your playstyle. Then take troops that are in synergy with them (jetbikes in fast army, rangers in long-range) or choose between DA and Guardians. Both are good options in any army, but my choice is always DA (4+ armor means save against bolterfire, better range to stay away from assault-range).

That's enough for now, I'll return here with better time. Hope this helped

Thank you guys for your help. I was leaving mostly towards Mechdar. Any advice of models and units that make that shine the most?

Serpents are aggressively good. Almost everything is quite good, and even the 'worst' (Banshees, Storm Guardians) aren't horrible.

Basically, look at things that work well with each other and cover weaknesses and almost everything is pretty balanced with each other.

Hmm... I pretty much have a "core" if my list I'm pretty sure I want. I'm just having a hard time building synergistic units/models around it. What do you guys think I should add/supplement my list with. My core is:

Farseer on Jetbike + 3x Jetbike troops
2-3 or more DA + WS's

- Not sure what to add on to supplement this list. Advice?
- What is your guys thoughts on the Wraightknight? Is it a "must have." From a looks PoV I'm not really sure if I want it and I could do without it if it's not overwhelmingly powerful.
- Thoughts on the wraightfighter/ crimson hunter? It looks very fragile with its 10/10/10. Feels like it'll blow up before it gets its 3 HP stripped off lol.
-How are Firedragons + WS now a days? When I played Eldar in 5e they use to be almost must haves for Mechdar because our options were pretty limited.

Thanks for being so helpful guys

I'd still put Fire Dragons in Falcon unless you're truly tight on Heavy Support.
A great AT-unit if you can get close enough (which should not be a problem with Falcon/WS).

I'm not sold on Wraithknight, I'd rather have a Lord in my army. Better weapon options maybe, but twice the cost with same T and armor. That, and the model is kind of an overkill IMO. Might be that the awesome looks of Wraithlord is clouding my mind from everything else, but the Knight is definetly not a thing I'm putting my money to.

Don't forget Dark Reapers and Rangers

They both are very capable in the right situations and my Reapers especially have done serious damage but they are of course quite pricey. Rangers with some psychic buffs are underrated in their ability to hold objectives

Also I never leave home without the WW squadron with BL/SL. Such an awesome base of fire that is flexible and drives opponents crazy

Haven't used the Wraithknight yet but planning to add one sometime in the next 6 months

Don't use a Falcon, always take a serpent. Especially for dragons so you can get them where they want to go.

The wraithknight is just OK. His main draw is being a bullet magnet. They are expensive and moderately effective. But capable of taking out a squad a turn under the right conditions. I have used the suncannon version to mop up units that fall out of exploding transports.

Crimson Hunters are deceptively durable. The trick is maximizing your range using vector dancer. Its easy to avoid scary units with a flyer like that.

wuestenfux wrote:
Autarch w/ jetbike

2x 5 Dire Avengers
Serpents w/ holofield, scatterlaser, shuricannon

2x 5 Fire Dragons
Serpents w/ holofield, scatterlaser, shuricannon

3 Warwalkers w/ dual scatterlasers.

This exact list is what our local eldar player is running at the moment. He sometimes has a farseer to ride in a serpent, and he sometimes drops a warwalker to give the autarch some friends on bikes, but otherwise, its pretty much this.

It covers all the bases, and does really well. The only problem with it, in my opinion, is that now you're running a mech gunline. Mech gunlines get a deserved bad reputation for being un-fun to play against. You thought people whining at you for playing leafblowers was bad, but at least it was reasonably possible to kill chimeras.

I'm having a lot of fun with the following Mechdar list and have a decent win rate against just about everyone in my group.
Iyanden suppliment (Just for the spiritseer power really)

Farseer, bike, spear - goes for 1 WP powers, usually try for doom, if I don't get it on the first roll then guide, prescience and psychic shriek are solid and reliable powers on a bike seer. This guy helps out everywhere - need AA, guided Spiders are pure win, and guided Nightspinners are pure snipery win (More on this later).

Spiritseer - Battle focus for WG and psychic shriek

Troops
3 x Jetbikes inc cannon
3 x jetbikes inc cannon
10 x Dire Avengers inc Exarch - shimmershield (Almost compulsory in this day and age of torenting AP3 flamers from the sky. Worth every point IMO, despite the naysayers that'll likely slam me for this choice).
Wave Serpent - TL scatter lasers, cannon & Vectored engines.
5 x Wraithguard - D-scythes, run with the spirit seer who gives them battle focus)
Wave Serpent - TL Scatter lasers, cannon & vectored engines

Fast Attack
8 x Warp Spiders inc exarch
6 x Swooping Hawks inc Exarch - Hawk's Talon

Heavy Support
Nightspinner + Cannon
Nightspinner + Cannon

1500pts

The Nightspinners are IMO the real unsung, unnoticed gems of the new codex. They're a superb force multiplyer as they force your enemy to deal with them. S7/8 vs vehicles and low I troops with semi rending in a pie plate that hits 2/3 of the time when guided on a platform that can move 12" and shoot to full effect is brutally good. They hit backfield units, tank parks/ castles/ aegis lines without having to expose themselves to fire and are great at getting round none area-terrain cover due to barrage rules. They instakill JSJ-ing Crisis suits and Meganobz and if that wasn't enough can be converted into 12" moving torrent flamers for when it's time to move up and clear off some objectives.

Since most of the Eldar's solid firepower is at quite short range, forcing the enemy to come to you to deal with the spinners synergises really well with the rest of the list.

I like this list because it's efective, fun and it has the tools to do everything (Although a tadge weak in the AV 14 killing dept, it can be done) as well as being scoring unit heavy (As Eldar goes) with an absolute shedload of Zooooom, zoom, zoom. Additionally I get to paint a variety of sweet looking models and can't ever be accused of spam of fluff crimes

Very interesting posts/lists guys! Definitely gives me something to work towards.

Now another couple questions/thoughts pop up

- Warwalkers? o_O I didn't think I'd ever see those again in a list since the points increase. 10/10 and open-top >___< Don't they go pop whenever your opponent wants them to? I took them before but am super hesitant on it now that they cost more.

- WS over Falcons, got it!

- Glad to hear Wraithknights aren't be all super powerful you have to take if you want to truly compete. I didn't really want to dish out the $ for it but mostly I don't really dig the model that much.

- Nightspinners are good? I got to take a deeper look into them then. Would you say they are better option than a Prism?

- @Ailaros: Interesting he put FireDragons in the list still. I just got a hold of the codex and skimed it real quick.. they increased their price :( BS4 is cool but their increase price was quite a bit o_O 22 points per right? oh em gee

Goobi2 wrote:
Don't use a Falcon, always take a serpent.

Falcon is a good option if your squad has six models or less and Pulse Laser is in better synergy with Fire Dragons.

Goobi2 wrote:

Especially for dragons so you can get them where they want to go.

Care to be more specific with this...? How is Serpent better in this?

 soomemafia wrote:

Goobi2 wrote:
Don't use a Falcon, always take a serpent.

Falcon is a good option if your squad has six models or less and Pulse Laser is in better synergy with Fire Dragons.

Goobi2 wrote:

Especially for dragons so you can get them where they want to go.

Care to be more specific with this...? How is Serpent better in this?

The Serpent has the best defensive system in the game.

The Eldar codex is in my eyes the most powerful codex in 40K right now. Most of their infantry has very powerful abilities (Bladestorm which gives AP1(or is it 2?), they can shoot then run, or run then shoot). Their fast attack options are actually really friggin fast, their heavy support packs one hell of a punch and can withstand quite a lot either through T8 or that insane cover bonus upgrade to their tanks. Their transports get the job done as well, being incredibly hard to take out in time. And not to mention that about 90% of the weapons in the codex can either be twin-linked or easily be given re-rolls through amazing psychic powers.



Their only weaknesses really is that their fliers aren't very good, and they don't have a good delivery method for their Banshees/Harlequins. Doesn't really matter when you can just go for Wraiths with a ton of AP2 flamers or Str10 guns which get the job done way better anyway.

Goobi2 wrote:
Crimson Hunters are deceptively durable. The trick is maximizing your range using vector dancer. Its easy to avoid scary units with a flyer like that.

Also about this... the Crimson Hunters weapons are 36 and 48" range so to use both you'd need to be in 36" range. Most skyfire capable weapons would be able to hit your Crimson Hunter at this range and 10/10/10 is probably going to pop... Also, where is vector dancer? I saw vector engines that let you face a different direction after shooting but I can't find vector dancer in the book.

Vector Dancer is a main rulebook ability.

 syypher wrote:
Very interesting posts/lists guys! Definitely gives me something to work towards.

Now another couple questions/thoughts pop up

- Warwalkers? o_O I didn't think I'd ever see those again in a list since the points increase. 10/10 and open-top >___< Don't they go pop whenever your opponent wants them to? I took them before but am super hesitant on it now that they cost more.

- WS over Falcons, got it!

- Glad to hear Wraithknights aren't be all super powerful you have to take if you want to truly compete. I didn't really want to dish out the $ for it but mostly I don't really dig the model that much.

- Nightspinners are good? I got to take a deeper look into them then. Would you say they are better option than a Prism?

- @Ailaros: Interesting he put FireDragons in the list still. I just got a hold of the codex and skimed it real quick.. they increased their price :( BS4 is cool but their increase price was quite a bit o_O 22 points per right? oh em gee

Heya! Just dropping in real quick to answer some of your questions.

1) Warwalkers are in my mind still by far the best HS choice in the codex. On paper, they are fragile. And yes, their points have increased. And now they are open-topped. Seems like they went from amazing to bad, right? Well, not exactly. First off, they are now BS4. Which means they are far more reliable without Guide and simply brutal with it. Next, they have the Battle-focus rule. What does that mean? You can hide them somewhere on the board behind a LOS blocking terrain, move out, shoot, then run back and hide. Your opponent will go nuts. As if that wasn't enough, they get Fleet too, so you can be pretty sure you'll run enough inches to hide them. And another reason why they're even better now than in 5E is that meta changed from almost exclusively mech to foot and hybrid lists. 24 guided scatterlaser shots reliably wipe whole squads of whatever you shoot at off the table, every turn. With Guide, they're also very decent AA, although not as great vs Heldrakes and other AV12 fliers.

2) Falcon isn't bad by any means. It's much better than any Imperium tank out there(although more expensive than most of them). It's just that WS is so obnoxiously good that nothing currently in the game comes close(okay, Heldrakes come a little close, but the kicker here is that Heldrakes aren't dedicated transports). So in any list that a Falcon would be good in, a WS is better. The only advantage is that you don't have to pay the "passenger tax" to take the Falcon, he's not a dedicated transport so he can go solo if you want to, unlike the Serpent, who you need to buy at least 5 Avengers for(which is 65 points).

3) Heh. See how tastes differ. I bought my WK primarily because I love the model. The fact that it's great(it's not ok, it's not mediocre, it's great) on the tabletop is only the icing on the cake. It's not Riptide level of greatness, but he's not that far behind.

4) Nightspinners are in my opinion much better than Prisms in the current meta of ADL campers. That Barrage/Torrent weapon is just too good to pass out on. The only problem is that if you take Spinners, you need something to threaten AV14 with. For me, that something is a Wraithknight, but Fire Dragons and Wraithguard also work. In our codex there's a few ways to reliably kill Land Raiders. Wraithknight/Wraithguard(S10 Wraithcannons), Fire Prisms(S9 AP1, lance), Fire Dragons(melta, melta and more melta), War walkers(6 Brightlances) and Swooping Hawks(Haywires grenades). You need to have at least 1 of those, preferably 2 or 3 in your lists.

5) Fire Dragons were always BS4, they were always good and they were always undercosted. Now they are reasonably priced. They also got an armour improvement, 3+ instead of 4+ and they can Battle-focus, which means you just increased your melta range by d6" with rerolls from Fleet. They're still good, but personally I got so tired of using them in 5E that I'd rather use something else to take care of AV13+ for me, preferably something more versatile and less suicidal.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, here is a sample list I played vs Tau almost tabling it:

Autarch w/ jetbike

2x 5 Dire Avengers
Serpents w/ holofield, scatterlaser, shuricannon

2x 5 Fire Dragons
Serpents w/ holofield, scatterlaser, shuricannon

3 Warwalkers w/ dual scatterlasers.

you played a 1115 point game? that is a very odd point value

 syypher wrote:

Goobi2 wrote:
Crimson Hunters are deceptively durable. The trick is maximizing your range using vector dancer. Its easy to avoid scary units with a flyer like that.

Also about this... the Crimson Hunters weapons are 36 and 48" range so to use both you'd need to be in 36" range. Most skyfire capable weapons would be able to hit your Crimson Hunter at this range and 10/10/10 is probably going to pop... Also, where is vector dancer? I saw vector engines that let you face a different direction after shooting but I can't find vector dancer in the book.

Most skyfire capable weapons are capable of reaching you if you get within 36" of them. However, with the kind of mobility that the flyer has via Vector Dancer, and the knowledge of where those weapons are, you can easily skirt around the edges of their range and target something more suitable. Even more so, if you know they have skyfire weapons you have the entirety of the first turn to thin them out. Eldar do not really have a shortage of weapons to deal with that kind of thing.

Here is the 1750 list I have been taking lately:

Farseer - Jetbike, Mantle of the Laughing God

5 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent - SL,SC, Holo
5 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent - SL,SC, Holo
5 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent - SL,SC, Holo
3 Windrider Jetbikes
3 Windrider Jetbikes

9 Warp Spiders
2 Crimson Hunters

Wraithknight
Night Spinner - Holo

I am loving my Wraith Knight, which is why I ordered a second one. Actually everything in this army is awesome, and it's the synergy with which it works that often surprises me. If I am able to flank an army (null flank deployment is your friend with Mechdar) then I can usually roll up an enemy pretty quickly, as I'll have more units on top of him than he can retort with. I recently added the Crimson Hunters in there (swapped out a DAVU Wave Serpent, and a Fire Prism), and I'm very happy with the change.

Price does not, in itself matter. Something can get more expensive and still be worth taking if you get what you pay for.

At 1850 points levels I throw in an 8 man fire dragon unit with flamearch in a Serpent as above.

They make a superb bruiser unit and can maul just about anything. I decided to drop them from my 1500pt list to make way for scoring Wraithguard and I do miss them.

7 x twin linked melta shots (If guided|) also ruin most flyer's day.

I'm pleasantly surprised. Eldar have gotten so many improvements across so many units that it is actually much easier to come with a "auto-exclude" rather than an "auto-include" list. Even previously junk units like the Autarch have some use with the JBike+Mantle combo.

I'm starting to flesh out my army pretty good now... what are your guys thoughts on Nightspinner vs Fireprism vs War Walkers? I'm having the hardest time deciding on what Heavies to take. But I'm sure most Eldar players have that issue hahah

What do you face mostly? Or what is a weakness or deficiency in the list?

My summary:

War walkers: highest firepower, but must fragile. Can generalise (scatter/BL) but may be better to specialise.

Nightspinners: only mobile barrage in the army, can get past some cover (eg defence lines)

Prism: versatile, good anti AV14 shot, good range.

War walkers: Glass cannons that need a savvy commander to keep them alive. Knowing when to reserve and outflank and when to deploy is really important.

Nightspinners: Great gun, mobile, sturdy, needs Guide to be reliable.

Fire Prisms: Most versatile HS choice, very unreliable anti-tank, even with Guide, solid anti-infantry, but nowhere near the infantry-killing power of War walkers or even Nightspinners.

I always take my Night Spinner when I can. Barrage gets to snipe models out of squads, it is large-blast, and is usually S8. It isn't sticky any more, but sometimes-AP1 is useful.

I've not used my Crimson Hunter much yet, but swapping out the Bright Lances for Star Cannons is nice. Having 6 high-S shots, hitting on 2s (when upgraded) and being able to keep to the table-edge works very well. Keep out of AA range, and annoy the enemy as they come to pick on the NS.

Warp Spiders are short-ranged, but very fast. Remember to move them in every phase they can (they can move, run-and-shoot and instead-of assault).

Swooping Hawks are actually super cool now. They don't have the raw power of Spiders, but a cheap unit can cause havoc with stealthed guys in cover, and they get a lot of shots too.

In a pinch, they can also blow up tanks quite well thanks to their grenades, if they can assault.