Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello everyone,
Ive never played a fantasy style wargame before and thought id give it a try. Through a trade i now own some orcs from mantic for KOW, this is what got me into looking at fantasy style games. I have no desire to play warhammer fantasy, I already play 40k. I came across some threads about Songs of blade and heros, the idea of making your own warband from any models you want sounds awsome! I hear the rules are pretty ez and most people who play love the game. I have read the KOW rule book an it to has very simple rules and seems very fun. The only down sie to KOW are the models, i like everything about the orcs i have but the face. They look like a seven year old scuplted the face and mantic went with it. Alot of the KOW factions "to me" are not to great. The only other one that stands out is the undead but even one i showed KOW to wanted to start them lol. I have a small group that im sure will be into playing one or the other so im not to worried about that. I


What im looking for
*Simple rule set
*nice amount of faction options
*Low cost of entry to the game
* overall fun game to be played to family and friend.

I haven't played KOW yet, but I've played a few games of SBH with my brother. I have to say, the rules are pretty simple and easy to understand. You don't need a ton of figures and you can play pretty much anything. Plus, there's a force builder online that's free, so you can stat up anything that isn't in any rulebooks or expansions. There's several expansions, too which can add a fair bit of depth and variety to your games. I needed to keep my rulebook on hand to look up certain rules from time to time, but it's really easy to learn. I say give it a try, though you do have to buy the rulebooks, unlike KOW.

About how many points is a "norm" game, and about how many models? Where did you purchase your copy at?

 SheSpits wrote:
About how many points is a "norm" game, and about how many models? Where did you purchase your copy at?

Keep in mind Song of Blades and Heroes is meant for skirmish scale, so the norm is between 5 and 15 models. Whereas KOW is meant for mass battles like Warhammer. So they aren't hugely comparable from a rules standpoint. If you DO want a good skirmish level fantasy game that uses your existing figures, is easy to learn, plays quickly, and has enough interesting rules to keep veterans interested, Song of Blades and Heroes fits the bill.

In terms of purchasing I bought my copy directly from the publisher Ganesha Games but you can buy from common websites as well like DriveThruRPG.

As I always do, I'd say check out the battle reports at Chicago Skirmish Wargames concerning their Dark Days campaign if you want an idea of how flexible and fast playing SBH can be. Being able to have 3 simultaneous games on a standard 6'x4' Warhammer table is awfully nice too! (since SBH uses 2'x2' play area as a standard).

yeah I heard it was a skirmish game, that's what draws me in. I head Ganesha games gives you free updates when you purchase from them. Im going to pick up a copy just to have it as I do want to play it.

Yeah, two different scales entirely. KOW is about pushing big blocks of guys around while SOBH is a skirmish game. Personally, I think SOBH hits the mark better as something like DMBA/DBM/HoTT or Field of Glory definitely do the block troop thing well.

Skirmish scale games are also nice as they don't require the outlay for tons of figs and let you run different groups/factions much more easilly.

 SheSpits wrote:
yeah I heard it was a skirmish game, that's what draws me in. I head Ganesha games gives you free updates when you purchase from them. Im going to pick up a copy just to have it as I do want to play it.

They do indeed give free updates, although there isn't any notification of new updates so you basically have to check back every now and then (at least directly from the Ganesha Games website). Song of Blades and Heroes is a good purchase just because it's neat to see different rules and approaches. Plus if you really like it you can start buying the numerous expansion or re-themed PDFs to add even more depth to the game.

I love both games, but as has been said, they are completely different in Scope (they're both fine for 28mm Scale), with one being a warband skirmish game and one being a "Comany" level (80-225 minis per side, what folks often call "mass battle") ruleset. I'm newer to KoW, having only played once (but it was awesome!), but both games share the idea of affordable, streamlined rules that are easy to understand and play fast, yet rewarding good strategy/tactics. Both would meet the criteria listed in your first post.

As for Song of Blades and Heroes (SBH)You can read our battle reports at our blog which Bosky listed. It's easily the Club's Favorite game for about 3 years now.

For SBH Standard points level is 300 or 500. Average number of models is 7-14 per side, but can go higher or lower depending on points values of models chosen. I bought some books from Ganesha directly, and some from Wargames Vault. I highly recommend joining the Song of Blades Yahoo group. The author posts their frequently and answers questions.

If you have a group that wants to try fantasy gaming, SBH is a much easier sell and I recommend it as a first choice. You can get the figs for playable warband for very little $. $25 new or $10 used at the low end, and chances are many gaming fans already have enough random fantasy figs to put together a warband or two.

On the other, whereas a Kings of War army is going to run you a minimun of a hundred bucks for a medium sized army and probably alot more ( yet much less than a 40k or WHFB army). Still, if they get the fantasy bug, it might not be long before they want to play a larger fantasy game and you can introduce KoW then.

Also, KoW doesn't really have an established tournament scene, so if you're just playing with friends, you don't have to use Mantic figs if they aren't up to your standards. I'm building an Evil Mostly-Human army from Battlmaster (90's GW designs), Confrontation, Ral Partha and Reaper figs and a Good Human Army from Old Glory and Essex Historical miniatures.

Lastly, though I highly recommend starting with SBH, if your group really wants to play KoW, then do so and use miniatures from your KoW armies to make your SBH warbands. My Evil Mostly-Human KoW army is an outgrowth of the Bad-Guy Warband I built for this summer's club SBH campaign.

I know my local group has no fantasy players the are regs at the store. I brought up KOW and it sparked up some interest. I have to "fan the flame" on it to get it going but i have no problem with that. I really want to play SBH and belive thats going to be my next hobby buy. I want to build an aquatic warband. I think it will catch on better then KOW.